Posts by sadiejive

26

OBVES & JWs If Jesus were not God,then Expl...

by Adonai438 in

jw
friends

if jesus is not god, then explain... .

-how can jesus know all men (john 16:30)?

-how can jesus, the christ, dwell in you (col. 1:27)?

sadiejive

I am undecided in what I believe regarding the trinity. But I have studied into it quiet a bit. When I read (what I quoted below) it reminded me of a scripture I found in 1 Corinth 10:1-4 (NWT version, I mean "translation").

It reads:
"1-Now I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea 2- and got baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and of the sea; 3- and all ate of the same spiritual food 4- and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they used to drink from the spiritual rock-mass that followed them, and that rock-mass meant the Christ."

....Does this mean that Christ was with them in the desert??

In the OT God was seen (Exodus 6:2-3; 24:9-11; Num. 12:6-9; Acts 7:2), yet no man can see God (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18). It was not the Father that was seen in the OT (John 6:46). Who, then were they seeing? see John 8:58.

Thanks for posting this. Very informative.
sadie

37

Just got a visit from elders

by TweetieBird in

jw
friends

well, it's sunday morning and i'm sitting here posting on this board when i hear 2 car doors slam.

i peek out the window and see 2 elders walking up to the door.

since i'm still in my jammies, i told my husband to go get the door while i snuck into the bedroom.

sadiejive

Gee...I feel privileged.

I'm not baptised. I just attend the KH (occasionally). I study with a couple of witnesses and ever since my husband and I began going to meetings, about a yr ago, we've always gotten the KMs. Man, I feel so special .

sadie

21

Antichrist: The archangel Michael

by illuminati in

a long time ago, the watchtower used to teach that the archangel michael is the antichrist.

does anyone here know in which watchtower edition they printed this information before changing michael to jesus christ?.

thanx a mil!.

sadiejive

I FOUND IT!!

Not the thing about Michael the Archangel (but I'll look into that too) but the reference made to the locusts and to Abaddon.

Taken from the 3-1-51 Watchtower article titled No Relief for the Rich, but Comfort for the poor beginning in the latter part of paragraph 4:

To them the activities of the Lazarus class in proclaiming the day of Jehovah's vengeance are like the locust plague foretold at Revelation 9:1-11 and Joel 2:1-11.
(5) These "locusts" are the army of Jehovah's witnesses, and as to their effect upon Christendom's "rich man" class Revelation 9:5-7, 10, 11 says: "It was granted the locusts, not to kill them, but that these should be tormented five months, and the torment upon them was as torment by a scorpion when it strikes a man. And in those days the men will seek death but will by no means find it, and they will desire to die but death keeps fleeing from them. And the likenesses of the locusts resembled horses prepared for battle, . . . Also they have tails and stings like scorpions; and in their tails is their authority to hurt the men five months. They have over them a king, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name is A·bad'don [Destruction], but in Greek he has the name A·pol'lyon [Destroyer]." (NW) Not surprising that the effort is made throughout Christendom to destroy Jehovah's witnesses.

Wow!!! I wonder if they still believe this. Sounds kind of twisted to me. But notice that the article doesn't really state that Jesus was Abaddon but it certainly, IMHO, implied it. I guess they wanted to leave a door open just in case they wanted to change their minds later. They could weasel out of it by saying something like..."uh, we didn't actually say Jesus was Abaddon"...LOL.

sadie

19

Disassociating==shunning...yes or no???

by sadiejive in

jw
friends

i have had several here tell me that if try to disassociate yourself from the org that you will be subject to shunning.

is this true?.

i discussed this issue with the witnesses with whom i study.

sadiejive

Thanks for all of the input.

Perhaps, he misunderstood my question. Is there a difference between someone who openly DAs themselves or slowly fades out as Simon says (no pun intended)? Maybe he thought I was speaking in "fading out" terms....but I am positive that I used the word "disassociate".

Also, how do you refute that scripture (and, of course, I can't think of it right now) where Paul advises that church (and, of course, I can't remember which one right now) not to even say a greeting to that man who was sinning with his fathers wife?? I think there is another one in Matt...you know, the ones they use to support it. I've tried to show my hub (who is involved in this way more than myself) some scriptures about forgiveness and love and it as if, these "couple" of scriptures that they use to support the act of shunning override the ones I show him. Any advice on this??

sadie

19

Disassociating==shunning...yes or no???

by sadiejive in

jw
friends

i have had several here tell me that if try to disassociate yourself from the org that you will be subject to shunning.

is this true?.

i discussed this issue with the witnesses with whom i study.

sadiejive

I have had several here tell me that if try to disassociate yourself from the org that you will be subject to shunning. Is this true?

I discussed this issue with the witnesses with whom I study. Here is what he said (BTW, he is an elder at the local KH)...NO, they definitely do not. And that he served at a KH in Fla and the policy is the same there. But he did add that it could happen, but it wasn't something that the society supported.

Is he misinformed or could the policy have changed??

sadie

48

STUPID-ASS WT QUOTES thread

by TR in

"jehovahs organization.... should influence our every decision.".

"....idolatrous worshipers of a man made organization..." wt 12/1/1971 p.723.

more dumb-ass quotes to come!.

sadiejive

Where do you guys find this stuff?

*envisions creepy dark basement chocked full of watchtower and AWAKE! mags* ...LOL

Seriously though, is there some place (website perhaps) that has an archive of all of the old mags??

sadie

21

Antichrist: The archangel Michael

by illuminati in

a long time ago, the watchtower used to teach that the archangel michael is the antichrist.

does anyone here know in which watchtower edition they printed this information before changing michael to jesus christ?.

thanx a mil!.

sadiejive

Thank you Siegswife!!

I have never read that before but I will definitely look into it. I have several scriptures that I feel imply that God hasn't got a problem with these celebrations (Col 2:16, 1 Corinth 10:27-31, Romans 8:1-4,8-10, Matt 2:11, Romans 14, Matt 15:17-20...just to name a few). My husband simply won't listen. Everytime I mention them to him, he puts me on the spot in front of our study partners. I hate that. They always manage to explain them away by saying things like, "well, that scripture is talking about the sabbath law" or "that was at his actual birth (speaking of Jesus' birth and the birth of Issac) NOT his birthday"...or things like that. I feel strongly that the celebration of holidays is something that should be left up to individual conscience and not dictated by some org. When I try to "reason", if you will, with my husband about it, he thinks I'm speaking from my emotional (heaven forbid) attachment to them and that I have no scripture to back me....I mean, excuse me, what was all that stuff I just posted above!! It is driving me crazy. I'm not even in and I already want out !

Anyway, sorry to stray from the subject. Thanks for the info!!

sadie

21

Antichrist: The archangel Michael

by illuminati in

a long time ago, the watchtower used to teach that the archangel michael is the antichrist.

does anyone here know in which watchtower edition they printed this information before changing michael to jesus christ?.

thanx a mil!.

sadiejive

Wow...this is something interesting. I have the 1999 Watchtower CD but I'm not very good at using it . I am currently "studying", I'm not baptized but I do attend the meetings at the KH, so I can tell you, as a student, what they have taught me. They teach that Michael is Jesus. We haven't covered Abaddon but I could look in the Revelation book and see what, if anything, is in there about him. I will ask them at our next study what the "accepted" belief of Abaddon is at the present (and how long till they change their minds...again...LOL-just kidding)

Willpower, I believe Peter was given the keys to the kingdom of the heavens (Matt 16:18,19). In my study, we have talked about all of the keys (briefly). They told me to read the Insight book for more details. I haven't yet, so I'm not familiar with all of that.

Siegswife:

I LEFT JW's because of this issue and because of the false teaching regarding Job's kids and birthdays.

What is their teaching regarding Job's kids? And the "birthday" thing bothers me too. Have you found any good scriptural basis for NOT believing that God has a problem with us celebrating birthdays? What about the other holidays? I know this is kind of off of the subject but these things have really been bothering me for a while and I can't get any "scriptural" help from anyone!! If you could help me...I would be ever so grateful.

sadie

4

No Blood-Medicine Meets the Challenge

by Dan B in

jw
friends

has anybody seen this video from the wt society?

my jw parents insisted that i watch it.

so along with my wife, who has a masters degree in bio-chemistry (and never was a jw) we watched it.

sadiejive

I just finished a bible study with the witnesses (I'm just studying)in which we got into a deep discussion about this very thing. It was over Chapter 20 (Life and Blood--Do You Treat Them as Sacred?) in the United In Worship book. In that chapter in paragraph 8 in touches on these two things. Bear with me because this is a loonngg paragraph .

It reads:
"Nevertheless, the complexity of some medical procedures may give rise to questions. How can these be resolved? First, ask your doctor for a clear explanation of the proposed procedure. Then analyze it prayerfully in the light of Bible principles. The doctor may suggest that your have some of your own blood withdrawn and stored for use, if necessary, during a later operation. Would you agree? Remember that, according to God's Law given through Moses, blood removed from a creature was to poured out on the ground. (Deut. 12:24) We today are not under the Law code, but the underlying message is that blood is sacred and, when removed from a creature's body, is to returned to God by pouring it out on his footstool, the earth. (Compare Matthew 5:34,35) So how could it be proper to store your blood (even for a relatively brief time) and then put it back into your body? But what if the doctor says that, during surgery or in the course of other treatment, your blood would be channeled through equipment outside your body, and then, right back in? Would you consent? Some have felt that, with a clear conscience, they could permit this, provided that the equipment was primed with a nonblood fluid. They have viewed the external equipment as an extension of their circulatory system. Of course, situations vary, and it is you that must decide. But your decision should leave you with a clean conscience."

sadie

35

Why did you leave the society??

by sadiejive in

jw
friends

the subject is pretty cut and dry:.

---why did you leave the society??---.

was it one thing or several?

sadiejive

Wow...Lotsa info to process. Thanks everyone!!!!

LB::
Actually, I have studied for around 3 yrs and my hub a little longer. When they first started coming over, I didn't study with them. My husband studied on the porch with the man. A little time later, I noticed one day when he (the jw) was leaving (I was peeking out the window) that his wife and child were sitting in the car. A good hour in the heat while he studied with my hub. I suggested to my husband that he invite the wife and child to sit with him. When it started getting cooler outside, I suggested that he invite them inside. Eventually, I began to study with them. For about the first year, we just asked basic questions: What did they believe? I never knew what they believed. My hub and I were brought up being taught to never talk to JWs. We were curious to know why no one liked these people. So, we learned about why they didn't believe in hell, their views on death, the soul, the 144,000, earthly paradise, trinity, etc. We spent the first year trying to convince these people that they were wrong. Of course, that didn't happen. Neither my husband nor myself really knew why we believed like we believed and we certainly had no scripture to back up our beliefs. So, we began the Knowledge that leads to Everlasting Life book, then the What does God Require of us? brochure, and now we are studying the United in Worship book. Most of our studies are spent just talking about things like kids, movies, etc. Also, when I find info or scriptures that make me "think" or question certain things, we will sometimes spend entire studies discussing that. My husband and I do attend the KH (irregularly ) and he has recently joined the TMS.

Esmeralda::
Thanks for sharing your story. I am proud that you have found happiness.

Flower::
I read your story. It was touching...and I feel for you. I hope you can find peace. It sounds as if your healing process is just beginning. Best of luck.

TeeJay::
I tried that url and got nothing. Thanks anyway

Room215::

For starters, are you familiar with all the ``can't dos'' that can get you kicked out? Lots of people who ctontrubute to this board have publish lists of these and will be glad to point them out to you.

I would like to see that. Waiting shared a few with me on my last post. A list of "can't do's" is exactly what I am looking for.

drahcir yarrum::
LOL...Thanks for the laugh...

One::

Studying for 4 years? Not too long ago jw would not study with you for more than 6 month,
DO YOU KNOW WHY?

No, why?

BTW, jw are not part of the SOCIETY.

I don't understand.

Ddid you read the book CoC?

Is this Crisis of Conscience? I haven't read that.

My apologies if I didn't respond to each of you individually. I thank all of you for sharing this part of yourselves with me. Know that your story is a contribution to a very big and difficult decision in my life.

Thanks again..
sadie