mynameislame, yes it is tricky. How much should you try and help others? I like your thoughts about Scrooge, perhaps he was just guilty of being grouchy, although I think there was more to Dickens' stories. Much more social commentary. There was a huge amount of poverty in Victorian England and an enormous gap between rich and poor. Have you read Hard Times? I like that you say there is no such thing as selfish, it's true that what drives our actions are gaining pleasure and avoiding pain.
Xanthippe
JoinedPosts by Xanthippe
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40
Are you a good person?
by Xanthippe insomething happened this week to make me think about this again.. it feels like all bets are off and i really don't know what a good person is anymore.. when i left the jws i was so sure i knew what it meant to be a good person.. this has been revised many times since.. i tend to favour the utilitarian approach, the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people.. sometimes you have to stick your neck out and say this is not good for me no matter what others may feel they need from me.. no idea where i'm going with this maybe this is a breakthrough in my life or maybe that glass of wine was stronger than i thought!.
any thoughts?.
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40
Are you a good person?
by Xanthippe insomething happened this week to make me think about this again.. it feels like all bets are off and i really don't know what a good person is anymore.. when i left the jws i was so sure i knew what it meant to be a good person.. this has been revised many times since.. i tend to favour the utilitarian approach, the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people.. sometimes you have to stick your neck out and say this is not good for me no matter what others may feel they need from me.. no idea where i'm going with this maybe this is a breakthrough in my life or maybe that glass of wine was stronger than i thought!.
any thoughts?.
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Xanthippe
I have an passionate disdain for questions like this (and the thousands of posts asking something similar each year). - BackseatDevil
Really? I haven't seen any.
Do I view myself as a good person or do I attempt to be a good person? Not particularly. I view myself as a decent and just person first, and sometimes to achieve that balance one cannot be “good” 100% of the time.
You see I find this interesting because you're describing yourself as decent and just but not always good. I'm having a problem with all of these words, these labels. Can't you see that? Haven't you read the thread? I am not saying I'm a good person, are you? I'm saying can someone explain to me what they think a good person is because I'm not sure anymore. The word good, the concept of goodness does not compute for me anymore.
The fluctuation makes me neither good nor bad... I just... AM.
Exactly the place where I am at the moment. People just are what they are, concepts of being good or bad are now striking me as weird.
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40
Are you a good person?
by Xanthippe insomething happened this week to make me think about this again.. it feels like all bets are off and i really don't know what a good person is anymore.. when i left the jws i was so sure i knew what it meant to be a good person.. this has been revised many times since.. i tend to favour the utilitarian approach, the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people.. sometimes you have to stick your neck out and say this is not good for me no matter what others may feel they need from me.. no idea where i'm going with this maybe this is a breakthrough in my life or maybe that glass of wine was stronger than i thought!.
any thoughts?.
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Xanthippe
Clarity lol. It's 11pm here I am going to bed in a minute, work tomorrow
I am actually getting somewhere with this and also Band's thoughts have helped me because I believe I see people who protect their own interests as selfish. That's my cult upbringing. It's that I need to deal with - tomorrow.
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40
Are you a good person?
by Xanthippe insomething happened this week to make me think about this again.. it feels like all bets are off and i really don't know what a good person is anymore.. when i left the jws i was so sure i knew what it meant to be a good person.. this has been revised many times since.. i tend to favour the utilitarian approach, the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people.. sometimes you have to stick your neck out and say this is not good for me no matter what others may feel they need from me.. no idea where i'm going with this maybe this is a breakthrough in my life or maybe that glass of wine was stronger than i thought!.
any thoughts?.
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Xanthippe
stuckinarut2, interesting, but aren't humans supposed to realise that at about age three? Isn't it part of separating from your mother psychologically and becoming a separate entity? If that is just reality then what is goodness?
Wiki says about enlightened self interest that it is a philosophy in ethics which states that persons who act to further the interests of others or the group or groups to which they belong ultimately serve their own self interest. It has often been simply expressed by the belief that an individual, group or commercial entity will 'do well by doing good'. (Can't get copy and paste on here to work tonight )
It contrasts it with greed which is unenlightened self interest and altruism which is acting in the interests of others without the expectation of material gain and sometimes at the expense of your own interests.
Perhaps furthering the interests of the groups we belong to, family, workplace, town, country and human race is just common sense and benefits everyone?
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40
Are you a good person?
by Xanthippe insomething happened this week to make me think about this again.. it feels like all bets are off and i really don't know what a good person is anymore.. when i left the jws i was so sure i knew what it meant to be a good person.. this has been revised many times since.. i tend to favour the utilitarian approach, the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people.. sometimes you have to stick your neck out and say this is not good for me no matter what others may feel they need from me.. no idea where i'm going with this maybe this is a breakthrough in my life or maybe that glass of wine was stronger than i thought!.
any thoughts?.
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Xanthippe
Observe your genuine thoughts and feelings and reactions to things without judging them.
That's good advice Cofty, sometimes our thoughts can be shocking but they are just thoughts. They are not going to kill anyone, even if we might feel like it.
It has been a long time since I thought there is an ultimate standard of goodness but I do think I am not alone in wanting to feel good about myself. I am quite sure this is a normal human feeling because when we feel guilt or shame about our actions it can be crippling. So it must be important to feel I am 'good', whatever that means.
For me good has come down to motive and intention. 90% of people are decent good people ...we are left with a difference in nature and nurture altering an individuals oersoective of the world.
Interesting Snare. Nature/nurture does alter everyone's view of the world even if only slightly. Perhaps if a person's 'nurture' has been in a cult it can be difficult to see everyone as basically good. I really try to and most of the time I succeed.
If you contribute to the well-being of your fellow humans, that should make you good, somewhat?
prologos, yes that is what I have felt for a long time. Today I feel, who has the energy for that anymore?
Does it even matter? Is enlightened self interest better for us? Better for the world?
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40
Are you a good person?
by Xanthippe insomething happened this week to make me think about this again.. it feels like all bets are off and i really don't know what a good person is anymore.. when i left the jws i was so sure i knew what it meant to be a good person.. this has been revised many times since.. i tend to favour the utilitarian approach, the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people.. sometimes you have to stick your neck out and say this is not good for me no matter what others may feel they need from me.. no idea where i'm going with this maybe this is a breakthrough in my life or maybe that glass of wine was stronger than i thought!.
any thoughts?.
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Xanthippe
Something happened this week to make me think about this again.
It feels like all bets are off and I really don't know what a good person is anymore.
When I left the JWs I was so sure I knew what it meant to be a good person.
This has been revised many times since.
I tend to favour the Utilitarian approach, the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people.
Sometimes you have to stick your neck out and say this is not good for me no matter what others may feel they need from me.
No idea where I'm going with this maybe this is a breakthrough in my life or maybe that glass of wine was stronger than I thought!
Any thoughts?
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19
What's your response to Matthew 10:37 (greater love for mom and dad then Jesus)???
by jam inused to justify shunning..
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Xanthippe
What do I think of Matt 10:37?
Why would a loving God want you to give up your family and friends and break your heart?
Sounds like a spoilt child saying I'm your best friend now you must play with me and no-one else.
Narcissistic sadist.
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Voices The Governing Body Listen to (Jehovah The Corporation Sock Puppet Included)
by frankiespeakin inhow do the governing body hear the voice of jehovah their corporation sock puppet?
how do they know jehovah's moods?
sad, indifferent, joyious, melancholy, pensive and so forth?
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Xanthippe
I wondered about this when I was in, how the FDS got the information for the Watchtower but it seemed to be taboo, no one talked about it. Can't believe I didn't pursue the question now. Think we had a vague idea all the anointed sent in ideas that had been given them but that was when they believd the FDS was all of the remnant not just the governing body.
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Told my JW friend it's a cult
by Xanthippe inso i said i would write about the 2014 convention program that you guys kindly posted here, to the jw friend who contacted me out of the blue after over 20 years since we d'ad.
sorry if you find this repetitive if you have already read my story.
this friend does not know anything about how my family shun me and i thought it is relevant in the light of the convention symposium talk about putting family in second place.
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Xanthippe
Thanks for all your thoughts everyone, I appreciate it.
Maeve well done to Goldie and you have two cockerels! Er I mean roosters.You say potato, I say ... potarto, well you know what I mean.
Yes spring is coming along nicely here thanks.The daffodils have been out for a few weeks and the cherry trees are covered in blossom. The birds are nesting ang singing their little hearts out. I mowed the lawn last weekend and potted up some pelargonium plug plants from the garden centre. I'm going to put them out in containers at the end of May. Usually that's the end of the frost but we've hardly had any this winter and no snow at all, just rain rain rain.
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Told my JW friend it's a cult
by Xanthippe inso i said i would write about the 2014 convention program that you guys kindly posted here, to the jw friend who contacted me out of the blue after over 20 years since we d'ad.
sorry if you find this repetitive if you have already read my story.
this friend does not know anything about how my family shun me and i thought it is relevant in the light of the convention symposium talk about putting family in second place.
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Xanthippe
So I said I would write about the 2014 convention program that you guys kindly posted here, to the JW friend who contacted me out of the blue after over 20 years since we D'ad. Sorry if you find this repetitive if you have already read my story. This friend does not know anything about how my family shun me and I thought it is relevant in the light of the convention symposium talk about putting family in second place. Thought I would post it on here just in case it might help someone.
So after chit chat I said :-
I’ve been taking a look on the JW official website JW.org, have you looked on it much? If you put 2014 convention in the search box you can see the program.
There is a symposium on the Friday afternoon called, What must be kept in Second Place? I’ve underlined it because it is in italics, for emphasis I suppose.
Apparently what must be kept in second place for a JW now is recreation, eating and drinking, concerns about health, courtship and weddings, family ties, material pursuits.
Now if (my daughter) came home from uni this weekend and said she’d joined a group that told her she had to put the group before her family, her health and eating, well what would I think? I would think she had joined a cult! I would tell her to get away from those crazy ideas. I’ve printed out the pages for Friday for you because I thought you might not believe me. You can print it out yourself as a pdf if you want on JW.org.
I know you are now thinking, oh they don’t mean it that way. They do (friend’s name), they really do insist you put your religion before your family, for example. My family don’t associate with me since I left the religion. The first time my sisters set eyes on (my daughter) was when my mother died.
(my daughter) came to the funeral, she was nine, her aunts, uncles and three cousins were strangers to her.
We then had to meet to do my father’s funeral four months later and then sort out their house. After that they dropped me. When (my husband ) died one sister and my brother came to his funeral, then a few weeks later they dropped me, again.
This is what this religion means by putting family ties in second place. Sadly, to me, this is not a loving Christian way to behave. They will tell you at the convention that it is an act of love to bring people back. Nonsense! After 25 years I am never going back, my family knows this. So why not associate with and support this widow and fatherless child? Because they are terrified I might say something to shake their faith? I don’t even talk about it, ever.
(Friend), I only ever discuss religion with you because you bring the subject up. As for putting the religion before health concerns, well listen carefully to that talk because that really is frightening!
Well, my friend, I expect I shall not hear from you again now that you know I am never coming back. I have to say I was surprised when you started writing after such a long time. Be sure I know your motives are good and you want to save me from this wicked world to live in the New System. I worry about you in the same way, getting worn out and poorly working hard for something that isn’t true.
So we’re a fine pair then aren’t we! There’s nothing we can do to change the other and that’s how it should be. People have the human right of believing whatever they want, as long as it doesn’t harm others .
You sound as though you have many friends in the religion and therefore you are happy to stay. In that case, good for you, friends are important.
Well I hope you both keep well and happy. (Enjoy your holiday etc etc)
Love to you both