I expect Peter Ellis is still in Muswell Hill congregation where my husband was from. He was close friends with my father-in-law, who was an elder there. Strange to think of my FIL being an elder there because he's now more of a fan of Richard Dawkins than anyone at bethel.
Xanthippe
JoinedPosts by Xanthippe
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4
Remembered what I was called years ago on here
by Lostandfound inwas looking up ron drage on search facility on.
this site when icameacross a topic iremembered starting!
then i was known as core.
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Who is your favourite thinker?
by The Rebel inhaving recently read orwells 1984, i was impressed with how he understood that both politicians and people abuse language.
this further confirmed to me how the w.t had deceived me by using words to distort reality.
the book 1984, also contains many other great thoughts of george orwell.. of course there have been many other great thinkers, buddah, darwin, freud, einstein and marx come to mind.
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Xanthippe
Very difficult to choose but, Leonardo da Vinci, Michel de Montaigne, John Stuart Mill.
Leonardo for his amazing inventions and art. Michel de Montaigne for being the first essayist on many different subjects from family to politics and his condemnation of the religious cruelties of the Reformation. Mill for Utilitarianism, the principle of the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people and also trying to get women the vote.
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shunning is bad
by Sabin inso i had a phone conversation last night, i'm not proud of myself but that is how the cookie crumbles.
started off all well & good then up came the arc which i was informed was all propaganda & the oct 2012 polices i got from the internet are apostate & not true.
so i lost the plot, completely lost it, & let out everything i was feeling.
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Xanthippe
Sabin I understand your frustration with talking to family about shunning. My nonJW cousin phoned me after Xmas. She said my (JW) sister and her husband had just been to see her. She apologised to them for still having her Xmas decorations up because she knows they don't believe in it.
She said my sister said they don't mind Xmas decorations and apparently my brother in law was admiring her tree and her cards. I said you do realise that they shun me for celebrating Xmas don't you. They are just hypocrites I said.
She does know this. She knows they shun me. She can't understand how they can visit her who has never been a witness and she is invited to their house for meals but I have never been invited and they've never been to my home.
Yes they do talk in their literature about giving people the silent treatment being wrong but they do it everyone one who leaves. Hypocrisy.
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Would I lie to you?
by slimboyfat ingiven recent posts on the forum and discussion, maybe we could play this game: would i lie to you?
in the uk we have this tv programme where minor celebrities tell weird or embarrassing stories about themselves and the rest of the participants have to guess if it is a true story or made up.
when the others have voted then the person reveals if the story is true or false.
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Xanthippe
Huh. Has this game started or are we still arguing if we're going to play it or not? I remember this, I think it was on the playground. Is Lostwun pretending to be an ex -JW who is upset about pretending to be something untrue? Or is she being real? Oh boy! I thought it would be quite mentally stimulating. Not much chance of that, think I'll go read a book instead. -
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Share Your Personal Experiences Please!
by LaurenM inso since leaving the borg i've made quite a few stupid mistakes, hurting myself a lot..but i finally feel like i've learned and i think, in time, i'll find my happiness again...even more happiness that i could've ever had being a jw.. but my question to you guys is, what was your experience like leaving the borg?
did you struggle at all?
how long have you been out?
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Xanthippe
Hi Lauren, my husband and I got out 27 years ago. We were a mess for about two years but we saw a psychologist and it helped. Then my husband got a paid job instead of window cleaning because we had been pioneering for years. Then I got a job in a clothes shop, which I hated but my colleagues were very friendly which helped me a lot.
Then we both did a distance learning degree. I don't know if you're in the UK. It was the Open University. My husband got a physics degree after six years and did projects within his next couple of engineering jobs to become a Chartered Physicist and then a Chartered Scientist. I did a history degree and a computing diploma to help me get a job. I even learned a certain amount of computer programming, which was fun.
My husband worked full time while doing his degree and I worked part time so it was hard work but we got there in the end. We both ended up with jobs we liked and my husband travelled a lot for his work. He went to Europe and America and Brazil, so lots of interesting experiences and getting to know how to deal with normal people, not cultists.
Then six years after leaving we had a beautiful baby girl. She brought so much joy into our lives. My sisters didn't acknowledge her birth. My brother heard a rumour I was pregnant and phoned me going all around the subject but I knew why he'd phoned. He and his wife finally came to see the baby. After cancelling five times. She was one year old by then, they didn't come again. My dad was never a JW so we took the baby to see him although my mother was not speaking to us. She was ok but made it clear we were there on sufferance because she was being a dutiful JW wife.
We didn't care. We had a wonderful time raising our little girl. Christmas trees, birthday parties - oh what parties we had. Enormous pass the parcel packages I made. Sleepovers for her friends. Dress-ups at Halloween. Wonderful. The great thing is my husband's parents left too after we did so they joined in and loved having a granddaughter which made up a bit for my family.
My daughter is in her last year at university now and she'll do her Masters after that. She's wonderful, she's made all the struggle worthwhile. Her dad died of a brain hemorrage seven years ago so we looked after each other. She is on the student union council and an active member of the uni feminist society. I'm so proud, can you imagine after the way I was treated as a JW woman that my daughter is an ardent activist for women's rights.
Life is good, we both have friends and it's all been worth it. Lauren, whatever is happening in your life and whatever struggles you have to keep your freedom from the cult know that it is worth it. Lots of luck and love to you.
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It amazes me...
by punkofnice in..to think about how the congregations actually function....even down to the individual level.. the biggest bully on the boe (or his wife), controls the show.. ones within the congregation are treated like they're dirt and still they return.
stockholm syndrome?.
i've heard ones say that 'jehovah(tm) will sort it all out.
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Xanthippe
I think a lot of people from financially poor backgrounds with little education, like my family, are very impressed by all the swanky buildings and shiny new things. Broadcasts, video links at KHs and conventions. My sister said when we left but it must be the truth look at how Jehovah is blessing the building work. This was after years of her complaining about her horrible elders and wondering when something was going to be done about all the problems in the congregations. I said shiny buildings full of miserable people treating each other badly prove nothing.
Since then I have been to the Vatican which proves my point but I enjoyed the art, which is why I went.
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What is your relationship with ALCOHOL?
by nicolaou inhere in the uk new drinking guidelines have been issued which suggest "no more than 14 units a week - equivalent to six pints of beer or seven glasses of wine.".
another piece of the advice which is getting a lot of attention is that "if people drink, it should be moderately over three or more days and that some days should be alcohol-free.".
already people are making cries of "nanny state!
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Xanthippe
I drink a glass of red wine on the days I work because it helps me wind down while cooking dinner. I used to like spirits but not so much these days. I can have a meal out with friends and have a soft drink if I have to drive, but it's not nearly so much fun. An ice-cold lager in the summer is wonderful. -
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Is the Watchtower organisation facing the biggest crisis of its history?
by slimboyfat inrecent developments make me think they might be.
the problems they are facing are not just lack of funds but also draining authority, and the two could be a heady and explosive mix.
one of the best analyses ever written of the watchtower was a book called "trumpet of prophecy" by sociologist james beckford in the 1970s.
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Xanthippe
If 75% left now, they would still have 2 million followers with billions of dollars in equity. The next charismatic figurehead would have the perfect springboard to launch the religion from, put his own stamp upon, and if he desired a huge cash resource to live off. - JWFacts
Yes but if that 75% included all of our families we would be overjoyed. I've always thought this religion will carry on in some form with hardcore crazies adhering to it no matter what happens. But if our families get free then to hell with the GB and all who sail in her.With all the bad press they are getting about child abuse and money grubbing while claiming charity status no sane person will join. All that will be left will be a tiny loony group. The world has plenty of those.
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Have we become what we despise so much?
by Tenacious inthe majority of members who tend to join this forum have been hurt possibly even traumatized sometimes to the point of wanting to end their lives.
upon joining the forum, new members are welcomed with open arms, welcome messages start pouring in, "likes" are freely given, a false sense of security is promoted where a member is free to speak his mind without having to worry about the wt gestapo.
again, similar to how potential converts are welcomed and "love bombed" upon entering a kh for the first time.
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Xanthippe
Have we become what we despise so much?
I don't know about you Tenacious but I don't despise anyone. I'm a very sensitive person and I'm easily hurt but I have to say I've become stronger by having to defend my ideas on this forum. You know what, sometimes now it's fun!
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Where to draw the line: how Platonism haunts our discourse and the search for exorcism
by slimboyfat inin the discussion about race i adopted a position i am not entirely comfortable with.
i think there is a sense in which it is useful to distinguish categories of description that can be fruitfully defended (apples and bananas) and those that cannot (caucasian or other racial descriptions for example).
but there is a more fundamental sense in which i believe that everything is socially constructed, every single line you can think of.
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Xanthippe
No it doesn't need explaining Nic, I get it but if you've done a history of science course at uni and seen phlogiston give way to oxygen, the ether replaced by electromagnetic waves, sulphur treatment get the boot by Penicillin ...... I'm not saying science got it 'wrong' by the way. Progress is fantastic, of course it is. I'm saying if you read the academic papers of the time as I have you would know how right they thought their facts were at the time.