Posts by smmcroberts

88

Minimus' Post Gave Me Courage To Finally Post My Questions, New Here

by toweragent in

i have been "lurking" for about four years now.. it was an incredibly weird experience just to look at a site like jwn or freeminds.

he came off very loving.. so, i decided that i would talk to one of my elders about the things i read.

if any of you have time to read this, thank you.

smmcroberts

He admitted that there were various things he didn't understand either, but he had decided to wait for the new system instead of abandoning his hope.

I agree with nochoice; at some point the pattern is too overwhelming to ignore. You stop thinking that there are a few things you don't understand, and come to wonder if there's anything that they are right about.

If they are wrong about so much, then there's no reason to think that they're right about a"new system" coming where everything will be explained and somehow made right. Which means these things will never be made right as long as the GB refuses to own up to its mistakes and resorts to deception to cover them up instead.

The only way to live "in the truth" is to do so here and now by abandoning an organization that refuses to admit the truth right now here today. Otherwise you're following a lie, and it seems foolish to believe that following a lie will lead you to the truth: ever.

40

I apologise Lord

by StopTheTears in

jw
friends

i apologize on behalf of my nation.

the united states of america has become a large sodom and gomorrah.i am so sorry lord, you deserve far much better.

you have blessed us with freedom.

smmcroberts

I believe the Bible so much that I am compelled, burdened day and night, to warn people about the coming judgment.

I have the cure for your burdensome compulsion, which will probably stop-the-tears:

(Click to read.)

88

Minimus' Post Gave Me Courage To Finally Post My Questions, New Here

by toweragent in

i have been "lurking" for about four years now.. it was an incredibly weird experience just to look at a site like jwn or freeminds.

he came off very loving.. so, i decided that i would talk to one of my elders about the things i read.

if any of you have time to read this, thank you.

smmcroberts

Welcome, TowerAgent!

Literally speaking there is no certainty in life. So you'll never know with 100% certainty that the WT is not being used by the war god of the ancient Hebrews (aka "Jehovah"). Just as we don't know for sure whether or not fairies exist. But we can be reasonably sure; or as the law puts it: sure beyond a reasonable doubt.

What made me 99.9999% sure was this: from 1921-1952 the WT held that vaccinations were "a direct violation of the everlasting covenant God made with Noah after the flood" Does that sound familiar? It should: It's the same thing they continue to say about blood transfusions. They also stated that "Vaccination has never saved a human life. It does not prevent smallpox.” (The Golden Age, February 4, 1931, pp. 293-294). In the meantime, vaccination erradicated smallpox from the United States, and eventually from the face of the Earth.

Similarly, from 1967-1980 they held that organ transplants were against God's law. In the meantime, Witnesses needing transplants died, while "worldly" people in the same situation lived.

Now, here's the thing:

1. If the GB is "faithful and discreet," they must've felt certain that they "had Jehovah's spirit" guiding them in these deadly pronouncements (otherwise it wouldn't have been discreet to issue them.)

2. But if they felt "certain" that these things were against God's law, and later they admitted that they were not against God's law, then it follows that they don't know when God's spirit is directing them and when it is not directing them.

3. If they don't know when God's spirit is directing them, then they must not know what God's direction feels like.

4. If they don't know what God's direction feels like, then they must have never felt it.

5. If they have never felt God's direction, then God is not directing them.

2

Keeping Score: WT vs. "the world"

by smmcroberts in

we make points here and there, and the wt makes some points... but i've never sat down and really compared them, until now.. .

my latest blog is a scorecard comparing the positive and negative points of the wt against science/"the world":.

http://smmcroberts.net/blog/scorecard-watchtower-vs-the-world.

smmcroberts

Thanks secondary priorities, and welcome to the site! (I'm something of a newbie here myself.)

Yes, there's a human tendency to swing too far in the opposite direction once we're free of the WT, and just automatically assume that everything about them is wrong. Which, of course, is as erroneous as assuming that everything they say is true.

Still, any way you look at it, I think in an honest comparison "the world" wins.

2

Keeping Score: WT vs. "the world"

by smmcroberts in

we make points here and there, and the wt makes some points... but i've never sat down and really compared them, until now.. .

my latest blog is a scorecard comparing the positive and negative points of the wt against science/"the world":.

http://smmcroberts.net/blog/scorecard-watchtower-vs-the-world.

smmcroberts

We make points here and there, and the WT makes some points... but I've never sat down and really compared them, until now.

My latest blog is a scorecard comparing the positive and negative points of the WT against science/"the world":

http://smmcroberts.net/blog/scorecard-watchtower-vs-the-world

I tried to be objective (and yes, I did give the WT some positive points) but you probably won't agree with every score, or choice of topic. But, it's a start.

Can you guess who won?

40

I apologise Lord

by StopTheTears in

jw
friends

i apologize on behalf of my nation.

the united states of america has become a large sodom and gomorrah.i am so sorry lord, you deserve far much better.

you have blessed us with freedom.

smmcroberts

There is no shame in banning religious instruction from publicly-funded schools; that is where freedom begins: the freedom to think outside the constraints of religious chains.

BTW: No one teaches that humankind evolved from apes. You either didn't attend public school, or you slept through science class.

But shame on you for having strained the gnat and swallowed the camel; you overlooked the biggest sin of the United States: our war-mongering ways! That is something that needs to change, and no amount of prayer (in the schools or out) will accomplish it.

17

OK the the Pope just said christ wasn't born on Dec. 25th

by trujw in

ok duh i knew that as does millions of christians but oh wow will jws have a field day with this.

somehow the popes word now will be taken as proof the truth is right.

everything else he says is the words of satan but this oh this is the true gospel.

smmcroberts

... or any other day, either.

When he admits that part publicly, let me know!

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

smmcroberts

Caliber: Old medical books may too serve a lesson... of what not to do.

Is it then your contention that this is how Christians regard the OT? As an example of what not to do? For example: don't trust the priests who tell you that God says you must sacrifice animals for your sins, and don't trust prophets who tell you to kill, rape, and pillage? Then when Jesus says we must observe the Law, that must be the hand of a dishonest or extremely careless scribe at work?

I don't think most Christians view it that way (the JWs certainly don't). But if you do, then I would suggest that this is yet another example of your own empathy choosing which parts of the Bible are good examples and which parts serve as examples of what not to do. Once again empathy trumps revelation! It shows that revelation was never the source of our morals. But it is when the reverse happens (revelation trumping empathy) that atrocities are committed. One such example was when the Europeans massacred the indigenous people of the Americas, using the examples in the OT as their moral justification -- too bad they didn't know the OT was an example of what not to do.

PS: whoever shall say Thou fool shall be in danger of hell fire."
That is a long way from saying "SHALL BURN IN HELL FIRE".
add to that, that Jesus was speaking of believers dealing with believers ( Brothers)

Didn't Jesus teach that all men were brothers? In any case, the heretics the Catholics tortured were believers. They just believed slightly differently on some technical points (such as if god were one or three persons, or whether they should dispense with the OT.)

Of course, as we well know, Jesus also reputedly spoke of a rich man (not necessarily a believer) "burning" in the flames of hell. Again, I'm all too familiar with the spin we were taught to put on such things to "save face" for Christianity [I gave that spiel myself enough times]. But now that I am no longer an apologist for Christianity I must admit that anyone reading the NT for themselves could easily and honestly come to the conclusion that people who did not believe "correctly" in the magic formula for salvation would be suffering eternally in the afterlife. From that they could conclude that the loving thing to do would be to force heretics to endure temporary pain in this life (via the rack or the iron-maiden, etc.) in order to get them to ascribe to the belief that would save them from eternal torture. You see? It's a perfect example of subverted empathy caused by belief in the supernatural.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

smmcroberts

Jesus never preached "hell fire" for unbeleivers, but warned of eternal punishment for those that rejected the HS.

"whoever shall say Thou fool shall be in danger of hell fire."

I know: as JW's we were taught how to spin around the whole hell-fire thing, but in retrospect, and having just read the Jefferson Bible recently, it seems like Jesus was really into the literal flames of hell. We just don't want to believe it, yet want to keep the "good parts" of what Jesus said, so we "explain away" everything else.

The Catholics in the middle-ages unfortunately didn't have the WT publications, so they read about Jesus talking about hell-fire and they took it literally and tortured heretics to keep them from being burned by their loving god for eternity. Christianity, as a religion which regards the Bible as its source-book, must bear some responsibility for what it appears to plainly state.

We can't honestly fault the Catholics for assuming Jesus meant what he said. Where we can fault them (and all religions) is for letting supernatural nonsense over-ride inherent empathy. It's long past the time that humankind needs to stop doing that.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

smmcroberts

Caliber: likewise many medical practices of centures ago are viewed as foolish, disgusting and barbaric ....

But we've thrown away (or stuck in museums) these old medical books. No one is suggesting that we should use them as guidebooks today. No one believes they were divinely inspired or that they are in harmony with the latest medical books.

If you're suggesting we treat the OT the same way, then we are in agreement!

Garbage Can