Posts by Observer1217

8

A Question For Active, Current Jehovah's Witnesses Who Still Believe In The Bible And Are Still Searching For Answers...(Matt. 7:7, 8)

by Observer1217 in

a question for active, current jehovah's witnesses (visiting this discussion board) who still believe in the bible and are still searching for answers...(matt.

we remember the watchtower society has long taught there are no inspired persons on earth today, nor living in our modern times.

which explains their viewpoint concerning the governing body leadership today, saying they need not be inspired to correctly lead the congregation of god's people today.

Observer1217

A Question For Active, Current Jehovah's Witnesses (visiting this discussion board) Who Still Believe In The Bible And Are Still Searching For Answers...(Matt. 7:7, 8)

We remember the Watchtower Society has long taught there are no INSPIRED persons on earth today, nor living in our modern times. Which explains their viewpoint concerning the Governing Body leadership today, saying they need not be inspired to correctly lead the congregation of God's People today. This we know.

Therefore, a few questions to consider:

According to the Bible, all throughout it from Genesis to Revelation, we constantly see Jehovah provided much needed INSPIRED LEADERSHIP in the first century and in ancient times (like in the days of Moses, etc.) for His people because they needed it. And yet are we to believe He refuses to see the same need of providing INSPIRED LEADERSHIP in our day and time, during these days of much confusion, danger and peril that we constantly face? Does this make sense to you? Also, does this seem consistent to you, especially in view of what Jesus promised his disciples at John 16:13, 14?

How could we be rightfully expected to succeed in our mission as Christians and make it in this ungodly world as we know it, without INSPIRED LEADERSHIP?

...Any comment you wish to make would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Observer

13

Is It Possible The Jehovah's Witnesses Are Led By The "Man of Lawlessness"?

by Observer1217 in

to all current jehovah's witnesses:.

the "report" book (written october 1994) on page 201, made the following startling prediction about all jehovah's witnesses and their future relationship with the governing body by saying: .

“...and so, the watchtower magazine under the present-day governing body arrangement, is placed on the same level, given parity and equal status, with god’s word.

Observer1217

Hi all,

Many thanks for your comments and thoughts above.

However, when I first composed this question and this particular topic above, I was wondering just how current, active Jehovah's Witnesses (who have recently started visiting this discussion board) view this question about the "Man of Lawlessness" and its identity.

I also wanted to know as well, how they (current, active Jehovah's Witnesses) now view the so-called Faithful & Discreet Slave or Governing Body and company, especially in view of all of the detrimental changes we have seen in recent years, occurring within the JW Organization. I was wondering if they still viewed the "Man of Lawlessness" as being the clergy of christendom, or had that viewpoint changed any with all of the recent problems and happenings of the JW Organization that are being discussed here. In other words, do they still see things the same as before.

....any thoughts on the "Man of Lawlessness" from current, active Jehovah's Witnesses among us here today?

...Now is your time to speak up.

Thanks,

Observer

13

Is It Possible The Jehovah's Witnesses Are Led By The "Man of Lawlessness"?

by Observer1217 in

to all current jehovah's witnesses:.

the "report" book (written october 1994) on page 201, made the following startling prediction about all jehovah's witnesses and their future relationship with the governing body by saying: .

“...and so, the watchtower magazine under the present-day governing body arrangement, is placed on the same level, given parity and equal status, with god’s word.

Observer1217

To all current Jehovah's Witnesses:

The "Report" Book (written October 1994) on page 201, made the following startling prediction about all Jehovah's Witnesses and their future relationship with the Governing Body by saying:

“...And so, the Watchtower magazine under the present-day Governing Body arrangement, is placed on the same level, given parity and equal status, with God’s Word. Jehovah’s Witnesses are subtly encouraged to view it as such. With the Governing Body controlling the contents of the Watchtower magazine, one needs no imagination to see how this special "tool" could be easily used to capture and manipulate the "minds and hearts of sincere persons" earth-wide and eventually exact unquestioned obedience, as would a "god." -- See 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4.

Thus, we see the stage set for this Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, since the decision was made to empower this special “body of elders” on December 4, 1975 and which became fully operational January 1, 1976, to become “a god” or the “man of lawlessness” spoken of at 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 which wickedly dominates God’s Name People, mystery “Israel.” Yes, and this would be according to the “operation” of Satan or the “working within” the organization by Satan. (See 2 Thessalonians 2:9 Kingdom Interlinear Translation under “operation”) Crafty, insidious and diabolical indeed!

End of quote

Being one of Jehovah's Witnesses yourself, how do you feel about such a deeply disturbing prediction being made about your religion?

...any thoughts?

Observer

For more information on this topic, please see the article: Jehovah's Witnesses Are A Mind-Controlled Cult Religion!

16

To All Current Jehovah's Witnesses: When Apostasy Occurs...Where Do You Go?

by Observer1217 in

where did david go when king saul turned apostate?.

where was elijah found when israel went off into apostasy?.

where was john the baptist found when israel fell into apostasy?.

Observer1217

In addition when we consider the verse Ezekiel 37:23, we note the following in the New Living Translation:

23They will never again pollute themselves with their idolsb and vile images and rebellion, for I will save them from their sinful apostasy.c I will cleanse them. Then they will truly be my people, and I will be their God.

Therefore in context, ***Ezekiel 37:23 when compared with Ezekiel 37:26-28 shows this special "Sanctuary" is set up by God, to save God's People from Apostasy or sinful backsliding. And we remember, this particular prophecy of Ezekiel 37, is one that has never been fulfilled before. This prophecy states in the New Living Translation:

And I will make a covenant of peace with them, an everlasting covenant. I will give them their land and increase their numbers,d and I will put my Temple among them forever. I will make my home among them. I will be their God, and they will be my people. And when my Temple is among them forever, the nations will know that I am the LORD, who makes Israel holy.” -- Ezekiel 37:26-28 (New Living Translation)

Observer

***Footnote for the verse Ezekiel 37:23 in the New World Translation (Large print) shows the expression "acts of lawlessness" or "apostasies" for the word translated "dwelling places."

16

To All Current Jehovah's Witnesses: When Apostasy Occurs...Where Do You Go?

by Observer1217 in

where did david go when king saul turned apostate?.

where was elijah found when israel went off into apostasy?.

where was john the baptist found when israel fell into apostasy?.

Observer1217

God's Earthly "Tent" or Sanctuary" Set Up For Escape from Apostasy! -- Ezekiel 37:26-28; Revelation 21:3, 4

Ezekiel 47:1-12 gives us a beautiful picture of a Special Temple constructed by God, that provides for mankind amazingly, "living, healing waters" of nourishment and refreshment. These verses state in part,

"And he went on to say to me: This water is going forth to the eastern region and must go down through the Arabah. And it must come to the sea. It being brought forth into the sea itself, its water is also actually healed. And it must occur that every living soul that swarms, in every place to which the double-size torrent comes, will get life. And it must occur that there will be very many fish, because there is where this water will certainly come, and the seawater will be healed, and everything will be alive where the torrent comes...And alongside the torrent there will come up, along its bank on this side and on that side, all sorts of trees for food. Their leafage will not wither, nor will their fruitage be consumed. In their months they will bear new fruit, because the water for them -- it is coming forth from the VERY SANCTUARY. And their fruitage must prove to be for food and their leafage for healing." -- Ezekiel 47:8-12

Now, let's compare Revelation 22:1, 2 which also says:

"And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side there were trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees were for the curing of the nations."

Did you notice above the great similarities in both of these biblical descriptions of God's Wondrous Temple Arrangement that ultimately nourishes mankind and brings forth Godly Blessings to all mankind? Did you notice the striking similarity between these two biblical passages? Yes, the book of Ezekiel and the book of Revelation are really saying the same thing. They are describing the exact same situation, are they not? Yes, both are referring to an Earthly Temple Arrangement from God. Yes, both of these Temple Arrangements, are said to give forth "living, healing waters" from Jehovah, which ultimately provide "curing," yes "healing" for all the nations upon earth. Yes, "Living Waters," that come from God's Sanctuary, upon earth. Did you notice this? To gain more information of this unique concept, let's notice the following.

God's Sanctuary or Tent in this instance, pictures a Special "Arrangement" a Special Sanctuary, a Special Tabernacle or Temple set up miraculously, in the wilderness, to provide spiritual nourishment and refreshment for all repentant members of God's People today, that seek refuge away from National Apostasy. It becomes a Special "Tabernacle" of God provided for these most difficult times. -- 1 Corinthians 14:40; Matthew 11:28, 29

In this regard, it becomes like Leviticus 26:11, 12 says,

"And I shall certainly put MY TABERNACLE in the midst of you, and my soul will not abhor you. And I SHALL INDEED WALK IN THE MIDST OF YOU AND PROVE MYSELF YOUR GOD, and you, on your part, will prove yourselves my people."

Therefore, God's True "Tabernacle" for God's Name People, is thus set up in the wilderness, as a provision from Jehovah for His People who have escaped National Apostasy. It becomes the place that Jehovah truly resides with His People, away from National Apostasy. It becomes the place where Jehovah would indeed actually "WALK IN THE MIDST OF YOU," and "PROVE" Himself to be their "God" just as promised above.

Revelation 21:3 and 4 speaks of the same situation, this way:

"With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: Look! The Tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will morning nor outcry nor pain be anymore, The former things have passed away."

Notice how the prophet Ezekiel speaks of the very same situation by saying:

Ezekiel 37:26-28, speaks of this unique situation this way,

"And I will conclude with them a covenant of peace; and indefinitely lasting covenant is what they will come to be with them. And I will place them and multiply them and PLACE MY SANCTUARY in the midst of them to time indefinite. And MY TABERNACLE will actually prove to be over them, and I shall certainly become their God, and they themselves will become my people. And the nations will have to know that I, Jehovah, am sanctifying Israel when my sanctuary comes to be in the midst of them to time in definite."

Clearly as we read the above prophecy, it shows without a doubt, this is an earthly scene. The above situation takes place on earth, after God People are willing to escape "apostasy" from their fellow believers.

To further this thought, we read in Isaiah 2:5-7, this bit of information:

"O men of the house of Jacob, come and let us walk in the light of Jehovah. For you have forsaken your people, the house of Jacob. For they have become full of what is from the East, and they are practicers of magic like the Philistines, and with the children of foreigners the abound. And their land is filled with silver and gold and there is no limit to their treasures. And their land is filled with horses, and there is no limit to their chariots."

As mentioned above, National Apostasy has occurred. And with this development, God People must escape, must flee, to the wilderness, for safety. This is because National Apostasy must be "atoned" for, in a special way, to satisfy God's System of Justice. This special "atonement" for the nation, must be done in the Holy Compartment of the "Tent" or "Sanctuary" of God, at the Golden Altar (instead of the Copper Altar), which is in front of the Holy Curtain that divides off the "Most Holy" Compartment from the Holy. -- Leviticus 4:17, 18; See also Leviticus 4:1-21.

Remarkably as noted above in the prophecy of Ezekiel 37:26, 27, and other original promises made by Jehovah under the Mosaic Law Arrangement, we notice they are almost identical to the one made in the book of Revelation where it says,

"With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: "Look! The TENT [Tabernacle, Sanctuary] of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them." -- Revelation 21:3

Thus, we can see this "Tent" or "Sanctuary" that bible prophecy speaks of then becomes the true realization of God's Kingdom upon earth. (Matthew 6:10) This special arrangement upon earth, thus becomes God's "Tent" on earth. It becomes God's "Sanctuary," God's "Tent" or His True “Temple” upon earth, where "living, healing waters" would flow for the full benefit of all mankind, earth wide to fulfill His Original Promise to Abraham. (Ezekiel 47:1-12; Matthew 6:10)

When Jesus was on earth, we remember he referred to the nation of Israel, while even in its apostate state, as being the "Kingdom of God" ... that would have to be replaced because of wickedness. -- Matthew 21:43; See also Matthew 13:47, 48.

Therefore, this Special Earthly Arrangement called God "Sanctuary," can also be called "God's Kingdom," which was formed in the “wilderness” as shown above, and will fulfill all such prophecies to the full glorification of God’s Great Name. (Ezekiel 17:22-24) And all of this, will be in fulfillment of this most wonderful Grand Promise, originally given in the Garden of Eden at Genesis 3:15, to produce a “seed” which would lead all mankind into righteousness. Yes, we recall Jehovah again reiterated His Grand Promise to Abraham, His trusted “friend,” at Genesis 22:18, where God Himself guaranteed one day, yes, "ALL NATIONS" … and that’s all nations, would finally be blessed by way of his coming “seed.” Yes, we recall Almighty God Himself promised Abraham:

"And by means of your seed ALL NATIONS OF THE EARTH will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice." -- Genesis 22:18

Observer

For more information on the National "Apostasy" spoken of above, see article: Jehovah's Witnesses, 8 Million in Apostasy!

16

To All Current Jehovah's Witnesses: When Apostasy Occurs...Where Do You Go?

by Observer1217 in

where did david go when king saul turned apostate?.

where was elijah found when israel went off into apostasy?.

where was john the baptist found when israel fell into apostasy?.

Observer1217

For a people to go off into apostasy, they would first have to have a standing with God and basic truth and depart from that truth. Jehovah's Witnesses as a people do teach some fundamental basic truths. But they do not understand or teach the deeper truths or sacred secrets of the bible correctly. Nevertheless, a small group of JW believers will break from the JW Organization and will learn these truths and sacred secrets while the organization as a whole falls from having God's favor into complete apostasy and receives the "mark of the beast" sealing its fate for destruction. (Jeremiah 23:19, 20; Revelation 13:16-18)

Please notice the list of Basic Fundamental Truths that Jehovah's Witnesses teach today in this article:

Jehovah's Witnesses Teach 40 Basic Fundamental Truths

Daniel 11:32 describes this fall into apostasy:

"And those who were acting wickedly against [the] covenant he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words, But as regards the people who are knowing their God, they will prevail and act effectively." -- Daniel 11:32

The one who leads them into Apostasy will be the King of the North. Bible prophecy shows us there will be a "Great War" that mankind will fight, with the King of the North emerging victorious, who now will prevail upon Jehovah's Witnesses after the war, and lead God's people who are now shown to be wicked covenant-breakers, into total apostasy. (Daniel 11:30, 32, 41)

Observer

16

To All Current Jehovah's Witnesses: When Apostasy Occurs...Where Do You Go?

by Observer1217 in

where did david go when king saul turned apostate?.

where was elijah found when israel went off into apostasy?.

where was john the baptist found when israel fell into apostasy?.

Observer1217

Someone Is Calling Out In The Wilderness...Why?

Isaiah 40:3 tells us:

"Listen! Someone is calling out in the wilderness: Clear up the way of Jehovah, you people! Make the highway for our God through the desert plain straight."

The "voice" we read of above that comes from the "wilderness" is the voice of God's Prophet.

1 Kings 17:2-6 and 1 Kings 19:4, 15 shows the prophet Elijah frequented the "wilderness" in carrying out his assignment against rank apostasy on the part of the nation of Israel, when wicked king Ahab and Jezebel ruled. In similar fashion, the bible tells us John the Baptist also frequented the "wilderness" since his early childhood. (Luke 1:80). Also, the Holy Scriptures reveal "God's declaration" or word actually occurred to John the Baptist, yes, while he was "in the wilderness." (Luke 3:2) Yes, it reveals John the Baptist frequented the "deserts" and primarily conducted his prophetic ministry OUTSIDE the camp of Israel. But someone may ask: "Why was this the case...why did John The Baptist frequent the desert places, OUTSIDE of the nation of Israel?" Well, this was largely due to the fact that the nation was now on a "renegade" course, and had become an "apostate nation" before Jehovah and in dire need of "repentance" to be saved. (Isaiah 10:6) It was John's mission to make that known to the nation, from the "wilderness" as his base of operation. -- Proverbs 1:32; Luke 1:76-80

In fact, contrary to what most would normally think, strangely the bible informs us that John specifically did his "preaching" of repentance, IN THE WILDERNESS itself. Yes, he "preached" while in the wilderness, a message of repentance for the nation itself. The inspired accounts tells us: "In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying repent, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near." -- Matthew 3:1, 2

All of this then, tells us that when the nation of Israel was viewed by Jehovah to be in a state of rank apostasy, it was God's Will that John, the prophet become a "voice" that spoke FROM THE "WILDERNESS" PERSPECTIVE. Interesting "food for thought," wouldn't you say? -- Isaiah 40:3

Indeed, Mark 1:4, 5 pointedly speaks of John's prophetic ministry OUTSIDE of Israel by saying, "John the baptizer turned up in the wilderness, preaching baptism [in symbol] of repentance for forgiveness of sins. Consequently all the territory of Judea and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem MADE THEIR WAY OUT TO HIM, and they were baptized by him in the Jordan River, openly confessing their sins." So a "voice" that speaks from the "wilderness" point of view, then has to be viewed as coming from a source OUTSIDE of the camp of Israel -- the voice of a prophet of God.

Therefore, if God were to raise up a "prophet" then in our day, during times of National Apostasy to warn the people, he would no doubt raise him up from the "wilderness" point of view, thus being seen by the majority of people as being OUTSIDE the camp of Israel or apostate nation. Also, as we might rightly expect, this "voice from the wilderness" would urge "repentance" like John the Baptist did during his day. And yet, we would rightly expect this "prophet" to be seen or perceived by the nation as a whole as a distant "voice", far away from the nation itself. This "voice" would no doubt be generally considered by the religious leaders of that time and general populous, to be an OUTSIDER to the nation of Israel, thereby speaking from a non-acceptable source or point of origin...namely, the "wilderness."

Think about it.

Observer

For more information on the above topic, see article: Jehovah's Witnesses, 8 Million In Apostasy!

16

To All Current Jehovah's Witnesses: When Apostasy Occurs...Where Do You Go?

by Observer1217 in

where did david go when king saul turned apostate?.

where was elijah found when israel went off into apostasy?.

where was john the baptist found when israel fell into apostasy?.

Observer1217

"THE REPORT" MESSAGE AND JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES IN APOSTASY! -- Ezekiel 21:6, 7

Jehovah, the God of Israel, the "God of Truth," is the Ultimate Source of Divine Truth..."Living Waters" of Truth. (Psalms 31:5; Jeremiah 2:13) Therefore, in times of National Apostasy during his lifetime, the prophet Jeremiah refers to the disastrous situation facing the nation of Israel this way,

"O Jehovah, the hope of Israel, all those who are leaving you will be put to shame. Those APOSTATIZING from me will be written down even in the earth, because they have left the SOURCE OF LIVING WATER, JEHOVAH. Heal me, O Jehovah, and I shall be healed. Save me, and I will be saved; for you are my praise." - - Jeremiah 17:13, 14

In such difficult times, the prophet Isaiah referred to this blatantly "renegade" nation of God's Name People, Israel, as being an outright "APOSTATE NATION" that had ignored all warnings given to it to repent. (Proverbs 1:30-32; Isaiah 10:6)

Yes, in the end, the unrepentant nation of Israel proved to be a people who absolutely refused to comply with God's Will in righteousness. In fact, we recall the inspired writer Paul said of rebellious, apostate Israel,

"But as respects Israel he says: All day long I have spread out my hands toward a people that is disobedient and talks back." -- Romans 10:21

Therefore, as a final act of judgment from the Holy God of Israel, the prophet Ezekiel spoke the following powerful words of condemnation and punishment, foretold to come from the hands of the brutal pagan leader and King of Babylon, King Nebuchadnezzar -- the designated destroyer of Solomon's magnificent Temple. He said:

"And as for you, O son of man, sigh with shaking hips. Even with bitterness you should sigh before their eyes. And it must occur that, in case they say to you, 'On account of what are you sighing?' you must say, AT A REPORT, 'For it will certainly come, and every heart must melt and all hands must drop down and every spirit must become dejected and all knees themselves will drip with water. Look! It will certainly come and be brought to occur,' is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah." -- Ezekiel 21:6, 7

Therefore, in harmony with the powerful judgment messages of the prophets of old, yes, the inspired sacred prophetic message today as shown above, can be properly called THE "REPORT", and should be scripturally directed to none other people than Modern Day Apostate "Israel" of our time, all Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide.

Think about it.

For more information on the above topic see article: "The Report" Book Message and all Jehovah's Witnesses

Observer

16

To All Current Jehovah's Witnesses: When Apostasy Occurs...Where Do You Go?

by Observer1217 in

where did david go when king saul turned apostate?.

where was elijah found when israel went off into apostasy?.

where was john the baptist found when israel fell into apostasy?.

Observer1217

To All Current Jehovah's Witnesses secretly browsing this particular discussion board,

Ezekiel 20:35-38 in the New World Translation tells us:

“ 35 And I will bring YOU into the WILDERNESS OF THE PEOPLES and put myself on judgment with YOU there face to face.

36 “‘Just as I put myself on judgment with YOUR forefathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I shall put myself on judgment with YOU,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

37 ‘And I will make YOU pass under the rod and bring YOU into the bond of the covenant.

38 And I will clean out from YOU the revolters and the transgressors against me, for out of the land of their alien residence I shall bring them forth, but onto the soil of Israel they will not come; and YOU people will have to know that I am Jehovah.’” (Ezekiel 20:35-38; Please compare Revelation 12:6, 14)

Ask yourself:

Why Can’t The Watchtower Society Explain The Above Bible Prophecy In Their Literature? (Have you noticed this before?)

Could It Be Unknowingly, Jehovah’s Witnesses Are Going To Fulfill This Particular Bible Prophecy?

For more information on the above topic, see article: When Apostasy Occurs...Where Do You Go?

Observer

16

To All Current Jehovah's Witnesses: When Apostasy Occurs...Where Do You Go?

by Observer1217 in

where did david go when king saul turned apostate?.

where was elijah found when israel went off into apostasy?.

where was john the baptist found when israel fell into apostasy?.

Observer1217

Hi Acluetofindtheuser:

You come here and tell the Truth for what it really is.

Thanks for your above comment.

Observer