stillaexjwelder, i think you summed it up pretty good for me. Thanks for the insight. I guess its just one of those subjects that seldom come up. (thank goodness) anyway, i appreciate it!!
Sangdigger
JoinedPosts by Sangdigger
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16
Circumcision and the WT
by Sangdigger inwhile discussing the old law and circumcision today with a friend, it hit me that i had never heard the wts say anything about its modern day practice, but only discussed the historical part of it.
but considering how they love to spout out streams of knowledge concerning everything there is to know, i couldnt help but think somewhere in the last century or so, they either condoned it, or condemned it.
(of course based on the current light at the time) .
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16
Circumcision and the WT
by Sangdigger inwhile discussing the old law and circumcision today with a friend, it hit me that i had never heard the wts say anything about its modern day practice, but only discussed the historical part of it.
but considering how they love to spout out streams of knowledge concerning everything there is to know, i couldnt help but think somewhere in the last century or so, they either condoned it, or condemned it.
(of course based on the current light at the time) .
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Sangdigger
While discussing the old Law and circumcision today with a friend, it hit me that i had never heard the WTS say anything about its modern day practice, but only discussed the historical part of it.
But considering how they love to spout out streams of knowledge concerning everything there is to know, i couldnt help but think somewhere in the last century or so, they either condoned it, or condemned it. (of course based on the current light at the time)
Can anybody help me on this one? The search option for the website is showing under construction. Thanks
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What happens when you die??
by mysterio91 init's been over a year now since my dad died.
i feel sad about it a lot because i don't believe i will never see him again.
i realised today that being raised a dub has closed my eyes to different views on death.. what do some of you believe happens after death??
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Sangdigger
Narkissos, thanks for the info. I'll check it out when i get a breather. What i meant by using the word immortality, as opposed to Eternality, is most practicing Christians say the word immortality when refering to the Soul, when they really should say Eternality. Immortality implies no beginning, no end, wich is what the Greeks taught. In other words, we existed as spirits before we took on a body. As far as i know, the only "Christian" group ( i use that word loosely) to teach Immortality would be the Mormans. Eternality implies life begins with the birth of the body on earth, and continues on throughout eternity with no end. So JW's are wrong when they accuse most churches of teaching Immortality of the Soul.
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What happens when you die??
by mysterio91 init's been over a year now since my dad died.
i feel sad about it a lot because i don't believe i will never see him again.
i realised today that being raised a dub has closed my eyes to different views on death.. what do some of you believe happens after death??
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Sangdigger
I remember my folks telling me (they are dubs) that the witness doctrine of soul sleep is comforting, while christendoms doctrine of afterlife can terrify the loved ones left behind. That they are disturbed, not knowing whether their loved one went to heaven or a place of torment.
The problem, is ive attended a dozen or more of "christendoms" funerals, and have never heard anyone preached into hell. No matter if they were a believer or not. The other thing is, ive never actually been comforted thinking that my body would lie in the ground for a number of years (or centuries) waiting some distant ressurection. I think contrary to JW doctrine, the belief of eternality of the soul (not immortality of the soul, as the JW's accuse christendom of, and what the Greeks actually believed) or basically life immediantly after death would be more comforting to the believer. Any thoughts?
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What happens when you die??
by mysterio91 init's been over a year now since my dad died.
i feel sad about it a lot because i don't believe i will never see him again.
i realised today that being raised a dub has closed my eyes to different views on death.. what do some of you believe happens after death??
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Sangdigger
sorry about your loss. I've been to several funerals over the last year or so of close friends of mine. Left to my own thinking, i would probably conclude that there is nothing immediantly after death, but a ressurection in the distant future. So untill then, there would be nothing. But being a christian, i have to take the bible as the final answer on the subject. And while there appears to be an argument on both sides, i think the argument FOR immediant life after death is more probable.
Consider some of the apostle pauls statements. "We are confident, i say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." (2 Corinthians 5:8) "For i am in a strait between the two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you."(Phillipians 1:23) "For i am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand" (2 Timothy 4:6) Jesus told the thief next to him "Truly i tell you, today you will be with me in paradise" (Even though the JW's put the comma after today, thus changing the meaning, Jesus uses this phrase "Truly i tell you" 143 (sic) times in the New Testament, and not one time does he use the word today.) He also said destroy my body, and in 3 days, I will raise it. (showing he was alive in the spirit) Jesus told the religious leaders of his day when they were debating the ressurection, "But as touching the ressurection of the dead, have you not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? GOD IS NOT THE GOD OF THE DEAD, BUT OF THE LIVING."
Paul also spoke of a vision he had of the third heaven, and said he did not know whether he was in the body or out of the body at the time. Some bible historians believe this happened when paul was stoned and left for dead.
Anyway, i just wanted to share this with you. As some of the other posts have said, no one has been able to come back and tell us just what happens, but of all the people who spoke on the subject, i prefer to trust someone like the apostle paul, who was in constant direct communication with God. cheers
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Who Really Rules the World?
by Kenneson inone of the current topics discussed by the watchtower society concludes that it is satan who really rules the world.
http://watchtower.org/library/t22/who_rules.htm of course, a number of scriptures are offered as proof.
however, a number of other scriptures are completely overlooked.
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Sangdigger
Kennneson, Good post. I studied on this subject awhile back. And of course JW's long held view has always been that Satan is in control of the world. I often wondered what are we still doing here if that is the case. If he is bent on destroying everyone, then he would have done that as soon as he came to power. There are many OT scriptures showing Yaweh to be in control of the world as you shown. I think the A.V uses the word "World" when satan tells Jesus he will give him the kingdoms of the "World" if he would worship him. What is interesting about the word "World" (Kosmos in the coin greek) is it is used in various ways, usually to denote "Inhabitable land" but almost never in a global sense. Consider how it is used in the NT. Luke 2:2 "....there went out a decree that all the WORLD should be taxed." Acts 17:6 when the Jews stirred up the rulers of the city againts the apostles the said; "These that have turned the WORLD upside down." John 12:19 "The pharisees therefore said among themselves, Percieve ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the WORLD is gone after him." Even in John 3:16 wich is often quoted in religious circles, does not neccesarily imply a global sense. Jesus here was talking to Nicodemus, a Jew who rejected the idea of salvation for the gentile. The word here is most likely used to show salvation to Jew and Gentile alike, and also indicating a lot of folks.
Compare the Hebrew word for "Earth". Deut. 13:7 makes you think it is talking about the whole globe, when in fact it is talking about just a large area.
However something was "delivered" to Satan, because he makes the statement in the same account in Luke 4:6 "All this power will i give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever i will give it." And i dont think the argument that Satan is a Liar and he was just lying works here. I know he is the Father of Lies, and a great deciever, but he was talking to the Son of God here. And even in his human form, Jesus knew all things. Even who would believe, who would betray him, ect....Surely he knew Satan had no power over the world. And to say it was over a limited Government, would be to say God Almighty is not totally soveriegn over all things. In other words, there is something he created that he has no control over. The argument might be used that he gave LIMITED power to Satan over that general area of the world, so he (God) was still in control overall, but let satan do certain things. I think that makes more sense than anything else i can come up with.
Either way, its an interesting topic. Another point is, if Satan showed Jesus all the kingdoms of the Global World, it would have to be in some sort of vision. So why take him up to a high mountain?
Cheers
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JW'S and God's Justice?
by micheal inapr 10, 2003
especiallly considering all the great people that will never get a chance to recieve "a witness" that will, again according to them, be eternally destroyed at armageddon.
and i refuse to believe that hearing " do you want the latest wt and awake mags?
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Sangdigger
Its been a while since i pondered on this part of the dub religion. But if i remember correctly, dont the ones who never get a chance to hear the WT message recieve a second chance in the ressurection, while those who heard the 60 second presentation and refused the mags die forever? And the ones who do reject the WT message, but die before Armageddon fall into the category with the ones who never heard and also get a second chance. At least thats the way i remember it? Can anybody elaborate?
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Jehovah's Witnesses withou Hope?
by admiral_palsey in-under the old covenant animal blood was shed for the forgiveness of sins.
heb 9:19,20 for when every commandment of the law had been declared by moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying, "this is the blood of the covenant which god commanded you.
heb 13:11 for the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp.
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Sangdigger
All i can say is AMEN!! We definately have a bloody religion. From the old covenant to the new, God can only forgive through blood.
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Jehovah's Witnesses withou Hope?
by admiral_palsey in-under the old covenant animal blood was shed for the forgiveness of sins.
heb 9:19,20 for when every commandment of the law had been declared by moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying, "this is the blood of the covenant which god commanded you.
heb 13:11 for the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp.
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Sangdigger
All i can say is AMEN!! We definately have a bloody religion. From the old covenant to the new, God can only forgive through blood.
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JW's and Mormons (**again!**)
by figureheaduk ina few days back i started a thread called "jw's and mormons", which seemed to get a few replies.
however, whenever i tried to open the thread i kept getting one of those horrible "error" screens that seemed to have been plaguing the forum recently.
now it seems as if the thread has gone for good.. the original questions i asked were along the lines of.
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Sangdigger
Just a few other similarities that werent mentioned. I attended several of their "meetings" about 4 years ago, and was surprised there were no crosses anywhere inside the church, or around any members necks. The guy giving the sermon was not a "preacher", but a "speaker". They refer to each other as Brother and Sister, and all the males wear suit coats and ties, while the females wear dresses.
Like someone mentioned earlier, they do put strong emphasis on the "warm fuzzy" feeling you get, claiming this is the Holy Spirit testifying to you that this is the "True Religion". However Satan is always transforming himself into an angel of light.
The missionaries are basically a bunch of kids wet behind the ears who have been duped into thinking they are earning their salvation. Most of them cant even tell you what they really believe. (just a few minor doctrines) However, most of them do mean well. They are given all kinds of rules to follow while on their mission. For example, they cant swim, get on a computer, listen to the radio(unless a potential convert is driving, and they are riding with him) or watch T.V. All these and more rules were broken when they used to hang around me. I made sure of it.
They definately pressure prospective members to get baptized, and once youre in, you cant go inside the temple unless you are following the "Words of Wisdom", wich excludes the use of tobbacco, caffiene, and of course you must be up to date on your tithing. (10% of your annual earnings)
However, there is one thing to be gained by hanging out with them. I got my lawn mowed for free every week, and much needed help at my office in the form of manual labor. So i would buy them lunch. Not a bad payoff for all that!!