hello folks.
as some of you might know my dad couldnt keep quiet about my view of the world, so i have been "forced" to study with an elder.
otherwise i would be dragged to questioning, which is to much pressure for a young inexperienced person like me.
sparrowdown
(Difficult I know) but have you considered just playing along with their delusion by saying what they want to hear and doing a bare minimum until you can leave home?
I havent thought about it in that way. I was raised to be upfront and vocally honest, but maybe it would be wiser to stay quiet. I will certanly contemplate a bit over that before i reach a decision. Thanks for your speedy response.
hello folks.
as some of you might know my dad couldnt keep quiet about my view of the world, so i have been "forced" to study with an elder.
otherwise i would be dragged to questioning, which is to much pressure for a young inexperienced person like me.
Hello folks. As some of you might know my dad couldnt keep quiet about my view of the world, so i have been "forced" to study with an elder. Otherwise i would be dragged to questioning, which is to much pressure for a young inexperienced person like me. Not physically forced, but i am confident yu all know what the implications wold be if i denied. Especially for me who is dependent on my parents supporting me at home while i educate myself.
The first question i will pose is: What is the scriptual basis for interpreting the 144000 as a figure to be taken literally? Almost everything else in Revelation 7 is interpreted symbolically, as fx. the 144000 coming from the 12 tribes, and that 12000 will be taken from each. All other descriptions in connection to with the 144000 such as virginity, that they originate from the 12 tribes, that they are wothut defilement and that the lamb and the fathers name is on their forehead is interpreted as symbolic, but the figure is taken literally. Why?
I have only been able to dig stuff up in the library, but they all, of course, support their own viewpoint, so i am a bit stuck. If you are able to help me to fx. have some answers i can throwback at him to the answers he give, i would be a very happy person. I wouldnt even know what reasons he would give to interpret it that way, but i am guessing that some of the more experienced here has gone through this question before, maybe you even have some notes on it.
Thanks to you all very much in advance - your help has already topped the ones i have recieved from my so called brothers in the congregation.
hello to you all again.. i just told my father:"be carefull that you do not put the so called spiritual food at the same level, or on the same pedestal, as the bible.
it is clear to me that they are not.
" to me, at the moment, this is self evident.
Thank you Crazyguy, it has been done. Did it once before in a different way, now i have used an e-mail to outline everything clearly.
hello to you all again.. i just told my father:"be carefull that you do not put the so called spiritual food at the same level, or on the same pedestal, as the bible.
it is clear to me that they are not.
" to me, at the moment, this is self evident.
hello to you all again.. i just told my father:"be carefull that you do not put the so called spiritual food at the same level, or on the same pedestal, as the bible.
it is clear to me that they are not.
" to me, at the moment, this is self evident.
Hello to you all again.
I just told my father:"Be carefull that you do not put the so called spiritual food at the same level, or on the same pedestal, as the Bible. It is clear to me that they are not." To me, at the moment, this is self evident. However, my father, who has been in the Org his whole life, and was disfellowshiped and reinstated again, thinks otherwise.
I was told that i should watch my words carefully, and see to it that i correct myself promptly. It was clear that he did not agree - do the ones of you who believe in Jehova/Yahweh/God agree with my father? What are your thoughts. It seems rather odd to put the Org´s litterature on the same level as the Bible, which i see so often at the meetings (and is the reason i am not going). I would like to hear as many viewpoints as possible - i like the idea of sharing free thoughts.
hello folks.
you might have seen me here once before - im as new as it most likely gets to this place and the thoughts accompanied with it.
ive seen the expression ttatt several times, and i now know it means "the truth about the truth".
Hello folks. You might have seen me here once before - im as new as it most likely gets to this place and the thoughts accompanied with it. Ive seen the expression TTATT several times, and i now know it means "The Truth about The Truth". However, i was curius if ayone had fx. a document, or something alike that told "The Truth about The Truth" one step at the time, so that "the Truth about The Truth" isnt so "scattered" around the web. Is such a document avaliable? It would be a big help in my research. Maybe someone wants to share their gathered research in a document?
Greetings, and Thanks to you all in advance!
hello.. i am a young 18 year old danish guy, who is a baptized jw.
since one year ago i have been maturing gradually and asking questions about many things, not only about jw stuff(which has caused some problems.
but nothing i couldnt handle with a bit of social skill).
Hello thread. I have been busy with my education for the last weeks (exams and alike), but I just got some time to read all these responses. You can’t even imagine my joy in seeing the kind, and most importantly honest truth-seeking, replies you have written to me. Man, oh man! Haven’t seen one "ad hominem" argument yet - you have no idea how much that means to me!
One of you said I should be careful, and how I wish I had read that comment a bit sooner. Just bringing a fraction of the things I talked about up, caused a major stir, and I have been "turned in" to the authorities.
I made my father promise that we would look at these things I had found privately, out of fear for the Elders. A fear I openly and logically explained to him. He understood…
Imagine the chock when I found out he had found a way to tell an Elder that didn’t go against his conscience. I brought it up to him when an Elder contacted me, but he just said the Elder figured it out by himself because of the questions my father had asked that Elder – to explain, my father just forwarded the well written document I had written regarding my findings. That Elder could immediately see that it was my style of writing. My father hadn’t told anyone anything with his mouth – there is however many ways of forwarding messages.
Imagine how I felt when the one person I trusted did this to me. A trust I openly said I had to him.
I am now forced to conduct a study with an elder to get to the bottom of these “claims”. As the elder said: I will not let go of you (he was referring to me as a friend), and you know the consequences of talking with others about this (referring to me as an Elder). It will not be accepted.
My response was: I have no intent of pressing my beliefs onto others. (The awkward silence after that was monumental)
My dad turned out to be a completely different man also, and even getting physical when I said things that questioned the integrity of the Watchtower. The almost daily "ad hominem" arguments proves to be extremely stressing, especially when I expected differently from my father. The last person I trusted on earth turns so easily on me when I don’t agree with him - how saddening this has been. Even simple questions now result in me getting reminded of how I own nothing here at home, and I should just obey (I am 18 years of age), and if I wont "shut up" about my thoughts I will be thrown out.
My response: Dad - you have continuously used this argument, along with other emotionally loaded arguments, so you cannot expect me to take these threats seriously anymore. If you want me to understand you, and agree with you, you should learn from history, and use other methods than the despotic methods you are currently using.
This resulted in him dragging me (Remind yourself that I am 18) into my room and saying I should "shut up" or I would get thrown out. He demanded respect. I then explained him the basis for respect and tolerance, which he did not take all the well too. Now I am getting drowned in messages and e-mails from him, linking to the good deeds of the WTS. I find it ironic that the one person who raised me in the "art" of peace treats his own son like this. This is even after a deep talk about the Prodigal Son in the Bible.
Personally, this has been very stressing, I have however experienced worse, unfortunately, which is why I have been able to remain calm throughout the deafening volumes of my father’s responses, and his physical methods. I am capable of defending myself, but I know when not to, as not doing anything most likely will have a larger effect on my father, and mother, who watches from the sideline. It is to be said that I have been “raised” (I have been alone in my thoughts the most of my childhood) along my sister (now 19 years of age), who has OCD, Autism and Borderline. The positive aspect of this peril has been my increased independence from my parents, and the ability to go through tough periods alone. An independence which has now almost expanded to the economics in response to the increasing threats of me getting thrown out.
One of you also asked me to clarify why it was hard to get onto my current education. The Danish educational system from my perspective is like this:
Folkeskole: Year 0-9/10
Gymnasie: Year 10/11-13/14 or Basic education like for example carpenter or electrician, which is three years.
The Gymnasie opens the University up. Initially I went, even though I wanted to go to the gymnasie right after folkeskole, but wasn’t allowed by my parents, to the carpenter school. Because Jesus was a carpenter I told myself. One week later I quit because the math’s were for me, too easy, and not challenging for a young fresh mind. I still wasn’t allowed by my parents to go to the gymnasie, so I started on Technical drawing, AutoCAD and all that. Completed that in a year instead of two, but couldn’t go anywhere with it because I was too young (only 16). At that time, I decided to get baptized - this then proved to be enough for me to get onto Gymnasie.
My study of the Watchtower has lead me to a myriad of things that I personally find morally wrong – but I am only a couple of months in, in what will be a long study. Thank you for all these best of wishes.
I am currently fueling my anger and frustration towards researching even more.
hello.. i am a young 18 year old danish guy, who is a baptized jw.
since one year ago i have been maturing gradually and asking questions about many things, not only about jw stuff(which has caused some problems.
but nothing i couldnt handle with a bit of social skill).
Yeah. The jesus i "know" certainly had his priorities set up differently.
Thank you Finkelstein. That page is helpfull!
hello.. i am a young 18 year old danish guy, who is a baptized jw.
since one year ago i have been maturing gradually and asking questions about many things, not only about jw stuff(which has caused some problems.
but nothing i couldnt handle with a bit of social skill).
My first thought too Stan.
Does anyone have a link or something to the source of the article in the link. Since i cant use this site as a reference when showing my dad, or someone else... I would only cause trouble for myself, as you all may know.
hello.. i am a young 18 year old danish guy, who is a baptized jw.
since one year ago i have been maturing gradually and asking questions about many things, not only about jw stuff(which has caused some problems.
but nothing i couldnt handle with a bit of social skill).
Hello.
I am a young 18 year old danish guy, who is a baptized jw. Since one year ago i have been maturing gradually and asking questions about many things, not only about jw stuff(Which has caused some problems. But nothing i couldnt handle with a bit of social skill). I am not a regular atender, but i do seek knowledge when i can or have time. I am currently taking my education at a technical gymnasium(3 years), which provides a dorstep to hundreds of different specialized educations. If only you knew how diffucult it was for me to get permission to take this education... But its not about that...
Recently i stumbled upon an article that discusses and proves that the WTS owns stock in companies that have ties to military business, and business in general(i found it on this website). I only read this article through a few minutes ago, and i am of course in a state of "denial"(or shock). Can you help me find the source of this article - or another one that shows the same. I would like to show this to my dad, who luckily can think for himself, in order to show him why i dont trust the WTS and just want to believe in god in peace, without being dependent on an organization susceptible to corruption.
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/36045/article-on-wt-links-us-navy?size=20&page=1
When you press the link then scroll a bit down. There you will see a wall of text which is the article. I havent been able to find it anywhere but there.
