Posts by CitizenofEarth

39

"Forced" study with an Elder - The first question i will pose, help appreciated.

by CitizenofEarth in

hello folks.

as some of you might know my dad couldnt keep quiet about my view of the world, so i have been "forced" to study with an elder.

otherwise i would be dragged to questioning, which is to much pressure for a young inexperienced person like me.

CitizenofEarth

Giordano
Citizen you need to understand the following: While the Society does value a follower's faith they value Obedience even more. Obedience even when they are wrong.
This is a cult like the Mormon's who believe that when the Elders ( in this case The Watchtower speaks) the thinking is done.
This is what Cults or high control religions do.
So coming up with clever questions or trying to debate the JW construct will put them on guard and eventually they will consider you a threat to their congregation.
Simply be humble and present yourself as a meek and faithful JW.
Gather information that strengthens your resolve to not become what they want you to be. You go behind enemy lines so to speak and blend in for now.

Allright. Unless anyone comes up with anything groundbreaking i will have to act with respects to your, and some of the others, experience. You guys overwhelmingly state that i should be a good sheep so as not to make things harder for myself. I will, and then keep on my private research.

39

"Forced" study with an Elder - The first question i will pose, help appreciated.

by CitizenofEarth in

hello folks.

as some of you might know my dad couldnt keep quiet about my view of the world, so i have been "forced" to study with an elder.

otherwise i would be dragged to questioning, which is to much pressure for a young inexperienced person like me.

CitizenofEarth

Scully
Don't start with that one, please! You'll be Marked™ or worse faster than you can possibly imagine.
Try something that the Elder™ isn't prepared for, and won't be able to answer.
Like this:
C: "I'm having a hard time understanding why everyone hates Judas so much."
E: "Well, he betrayed Jesus, duh!"
C: "Yes, I get *that*, but nobody seems to get that the betrayal was essential in order for prophecies to be fulfilled about Jesus. If *nobody* had betrayed Jesus, he would never have been able to fulfill the prophecy, become The Lamb of God, and a sacrifice to atone for our sins."
E: "Well he was just a bad guy."
C: "Was he *really* though?? Or is he just a scapegoat for people to hate? Aren't prophecies like puzzles? All the pieces are necessary in order to complete the picture. Without Judas, Jesus would have just been some smart Jewish guy who was really popular with the people. Those people were willing to hide Jesus and help him escape from the soldiers who were searching for him, who knows if he ever would have been found another way other than by being betrayed?"
E: "Well, this has been a great chat. I have to run, my wife wants me to pick up milk on the way home."
C: (to himself) BOOOOM! (mic drop)

I had similiar thoughts not many weeks ago, but the case is that the Elder made me send him a question so that he could prepare. I wont be able to backtrack now, so my choices are either to go hardmode and enter a discussion, or backtrack and be a good sheep and conform. Your advice is good, but in my inexperince i have put mysef in a corner, sadly. I wont act the same way another time, that is for sure.

39

"Forced" study with an Elder - The first question i will pose, help appreciated.

by CitizenofEarth in

hello folks.

as some of you might know my dad couldnt keep quiet about my view of the world, so i have been "forced" to study with an elder.

otherwise i would be dragged to questioning, which is to much pressure for a young inexperienced person like me.

CitizenofEarth

stuckinarut2
Yes citizen, they can never dare to question "god's answers or direction" as a result of your prayers!
Use that when it comes to any situation or topic.
But make sure you come across sincere as you say it.

Weave and dodge so that i may not be questioned on my motives, which no man can see. Sad, but i wil use your advice, thank you.

39

"Forced" study with an Elder - The first question i will pose, help appreciated.

by CitizenofEarth in

hello folks.

as some of you might know my dad couldnt keep quiet about my view of the world, so i have been "forced" to study with an elder.

otherwise i would be dragged to questioning, which is to much pressure for a young inexperienced person like me.

CitizenofEarth

stuckinarut2
Always fall back on this type of statement:
"I have made it a matter of sincere and earnest prayer, and Jehovah has clearly shown me that....(insert whatever you like)"
That way, they can never belittle or argue your comment, because you PRAYED to Jehovah about it, and saw "his clear answer and direction" to your prayers....

I see why that would be benficial, also so that i may not be accused of thinking independently - since that seems to be a problem in the Org now too.

39

"Forced" study with an Elder - The first question i will pose, help appreciated.

by CitizenofEarth in

hello folks.

as some of you might know my dad couldnt keep quiet about my view of the world, so i have been "forced" to study with an elder.

otherwise i would be dragged to questioning, which is to much pressure for a young inexperienced person like me.

CitizenofEarth

sir82
As I recall, the answer is that the number of "lambs" in the verse is just one (there is only one Jesus, of course).
So, since the number "1" is literal, then the number "144,000" in the same context "must" be literal too.
Of course, that answer makes no sense whatsoever, but that is I think more or less what you'll get.

Indeed it doesnt make sense to me neither. He wouldnt take "it doesnt make sense" for an answer, so what do you guys think would be a more proper response to such a argument? On the top of my head it propably wouldnt suffice to say: "Just because one number is taken literally doesnt mean another should be."

39

"Forced" study with an Elder - The first question i will pose, help appreciated.

by CitizenofEarth in

hello folks.

as some of you might know my dad couldnt keep quiet about my view of the world, so i have been "forced" to study with an elder.

otherwise i would be dragged to questioning, which is to much pressure for a young inexperienced person like me.

CitizenofEarth

sparrowdown
(Difficult I know) but have you considered just playing along with their delusion by saying what they want to hear and doing a bare minimum until you can leave home?

I havent thought about it in that way. I was raised to be upfront and vocally honest, but maybe it would be wiser to stay quiet. I will certanly contemplate a bit over that before i reach a decision. Thanks for your speedy response.

39

"Forced" study with an Elder - The first question i will pose, help appreciated.

by CitizenofEarth in

hello folks.

as some of you might know my dad couldnt keep quiet about my view of the world, so i have been "forced" to study with an elder.

otherwise i would be dragged to questioning, which is to much pressure for a young inexperienced person like me.

CitizenofEarth

Hello folks. As some of you might know my dad couldnt keep quiet about my view of the world, so i have been "forced" to study with an elder. Otherwise i would be dragged to questioning, which is to much pressure for a young inexperienced person like me. Not physically forced, but i am confident yu all know what the implications wold be if i denied. Especially for me who is dependent on my parents supporting me at home while i educate myself.

The first question i will pose is: What is the scriptual basis for interpreting the 144000 as a figure to be taken literally? Almost everything else in Revelation 7 is interpreted symbolically, as fx. the 144000 coming from the 12 tribes, and that 12000 will be taken from each. All other descriptions in connection to with the 144000 such as virginity, that they originate from the 12 tribes, that they are wothut defilement and that the lamb and the fathers name is on their forehead is interpreted as symbolic, but the figure is taken literally. Why?

I have only been able to dig stuff up in the library, but they all, of course, support their own viewpoint, so i am a bit stuck. If you are able to help me to fx. have some answers i can throwback at him to the answers he give, i would be a very happy person. I wouldnt even know what reasons he would give to interpret it that way, but i am guessing that some of the more experienced here has gone through this question before, maybe you even have some notes on it.

Thanks to you all very much in advance - your help has already topped the ones i have recieved from my so called brothers in the congregation.

12

Spiritual food from the org on the same level as the Bible?

by CitizenofEarth in

hello to you all again.. i just told my father:"be carefull that you do not put the so called spiritual food at the same level, or on the same pedestal, as the bible.

it is clear to me that they are not.

" to me, at the moment, this is self evident.

CitizenofEarth

Thank you Crazyguy, it has been done. Did it once before in a different way, now i have used an e-mail to outline everything clearly.

12

Spiritual food from the org on the same level as the Bible?

by CitizenofEarth in

hello to you all again.. i just told my father:"be carefull that you do not put the so called spiritual food at the same level, or on the same pedestal, as the bible.

it is clear to me that they are not.

" to me, at the moment, this is self evident.

CitizenofEarth

Why would they cite Matthew 24:45,47? What does that have to do with independent Bible study? Funny how they say study in the Insight Book will provide accurate knowledge, when they themselves admit that they are fallible.

12

Spiritual food from the org on the same level as the Bible?

by CitizenofEarth in

hello to you all again.. i just told my father:"be carefull that you do not put the so called spiritual food at the same level, or on the same pedestal, as the bible.

it is clear to me that they are not.

" to me, at the moment, this is self evident.

CitizenofEarth

Hello to you all again.

I just told my father:"Be carefull that you do not put the so called spiritual food at the same level, or on the same pedestal, as the Bible. It is clear to me that they are not." To me, at the moment, this is self evident. However, my father, who has been in the Org his whole life, and was disfellowshiped and reinstated again, thinks otherwise.

I was told that i should watch my words carefully, and see to it that i correct myself promptly. It was clear that he did not agree - do the ones of you who believe in Jehova/Yahweh/God agree with my father? What are your thoughts. It seems rather odd to put the Org´s litterature on the same level as the Bible, which i see so often at the meetings (and is the reason i am not going). I would like to hear as many viewpoints as possible - i like the idea of sharing free thoughts.