This is super interesting - the history of the relationship between mathematic theory and religious opinions about the use or non-use of a name for "God/s." Wow. Thank you for sharing.
Cimarrona
JoinedPosts by Cimarrona
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Naming Infinity: A True Story of Religious Mysticism and Mathematical Creativity
by OrphanCrow induring the time that the silver sword, the jw bible, was being examined in the russian courts as to whether or not it was going to be recognized as a "real bible" or be declared extremist (which it was), i did some research for historical context, trying to get a better understanding of the social environment that would be evaluating the jw bible.. the most crucial piece of information that i was interested in expanding and tracking down was how the jws' use of 'the divine name' in the bible would be perceived in russian culture.. i started from the premise that the act of naming denoted ownership.
and i was interested in how that act would be interpreted against the backdrop of orthodoxy in russia, given that russian orthodoxy has had its own historical and controversial schisms over the rituals and interpretations of "the divine".
even though we live in the 21st century and this drama is played out in front of us, how it is scripted is based on centuries of belief and ritual that are not present in the birthplace of the jworg.. i also thought that the org's habit of claiming divine favor based on "knowing" god's name would not play out well against the history and inherent religious biases that run deep within russian culture and so i wanted to know how the act of naming god might be viewed in today's culture.. anyways.
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Self Intro
by Cimarrona ini've done a good deal of posting in my brief 24 hours here so far, figured i might as well provide a slightly more in depth narrative.
second generation born-in.
elder's daughter and elders' granddaughter.
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Cimarrona
I've done a good deal of posting in my brief 24 hours here so far, figured I might as well provide a slightly more in depth narrative.
Second generation born-in. Elder's daughter and elders' granddaughter. I can't say I ever really believed the dubs, but I couldn't imagine a life without my family (especially as a young kid). My first talk was at six on the Hebrew Tetragrammaton (I must say I was quite the playwright). I got baptized at ten because my older brother (who never got baptized) told me I'd get presents. I had no idea what I was committing to. I tried to force my way through it - regular auxiliary pioneering, regular pioneering for a bit. I "served where the need was greater" abroad for months of every year; I loved traveling and learning new languages/experiencing new cultures. I had loads of "friends," though I always knew it was conditional. I always HATED "the ministry." And I tried every single form imaginable in search of something tolerable - early mornings, buses, letter writing, street corners, businesses, phones. And I HATED that ridiculous weekly routine, especially when there were three meeting days. I'd resist by pretending to be sick. But I loved the theater of meetings. I commented on every part I could comment on, I did all the demonstrations I could, I was on assembly parts. I basically wanted to be my dad, but - WHOOPS - had a vagina. No place for smart, eloquent women in "God's organization." Not to mention the racial issues in this self-purportedly post-racial organization that's always been run by a group of old white dudes (with one exception in 100 years). I left at 18 to pursue a life of letters (academic work around literature and visual art of the African diaspora). I'm generally happy but suffer the occasional bout of depression. I have my integrity and my dignity and a peace of mind I never had growing up. And I'm mother to a beautiful child who, born "out of wedlock," is surely a sign of my moral depravity to my former friends who are all either in unhappy and/or abusive marriages; can't find husbands because, well, there are only so many Bethelites; or have chosen to wait to have kids until after Armageddon lolololol. I'm good 💪🏾
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How Are Ex Elders Treated In The Congregation?
by minimus inare they pretty much left alone?
are they respected for their having been elders at one time?
are they treated like crap?.
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Cimarrona
My father was an elder from age 18 (appointed back when congregations were still segregated in the U.S. and they needed literate black men to lead) to age 73, when younger elders, new to the congregation he'd built (he was a special pioneer here when there was only one congregation, now there are 32; he designed the first KH here that was Society-owned and not a rented storefront; and my parents donated the property on which the KH I grew up in was built next door to my childhood home). All because of my apostasy supposedly. It broke his heart. He gave the congregation so much more time and attention than he gave us kids or my mom. My siblings are happy about it though (even those who are still dubs) - they say it's better for his health. He's still everybody in the cong's primary caregiver, fiscal sponsor, and spiritual adviser. Which I knoooow those new elders are so mad about. I do feel like he's stopped trying as hard to convert me since then though. He even made a passing comment to me about how 'different this new set is.' His contemporaries locally were not this backbiting and devious. In his altruism, he really was was unnerved by the ways in which these outsiders maneuvered. TBH I think the real reason was that they were scared of the power he had over the congregation. He studied with, married, conducted the funerals of pretty much everybody in this city. I still think that most of them would follow him if he left.
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Remember the First "Young People Ask..." VHS?
by Cimarrona indo y'all remember the young people ask tape that came out in the late 90s about "bad association"?
i was a fairly small child with teenage siblings and watched it often (with family and alone cause i thought it was the inside scoop on older kids).
that was back when worldly was still very much so a part of dubspeak (i think they started encouraging people to stop saying it in the mid to late 2000s).
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Cimarrona
Do y'all remember the young people ask tape that came out in the late 90s about "bad association"? I was a fairly small child with teenage siblings and watched it often (with family and alone cause I thought it was the inside scoop on older kids). That was back when worldly was still very much so a part of dubspeak (I think they started encouraging people to stop saying it in the mid to late 2000s). Anyway, I've had JWs treat me a million times worse than any of the "bad" kids in that movie, before and after I faded. There was a convention right after I left and my absence was noted; you wouldn't believe how many ministerial servants and regular pioneers, single/dating/married, propositioned me via text! As if being a woman outside of their religion meant I was just open to having sex with whomever whenever whatever. IT WAS WILD. But that VHS was hilarious.
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Did anyone here ever meet Stephen Lett?
by The Real Edward Gentry inwhat is he like in person?
he seems deranged.
do people get irritated at being spoken to like a 3 year old when they hear him speak?.
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Cimarrona
I remember he gave a talk at one of our assemblies and said, "parents, allowing your child to attend college is facilitating spiritual suicide." I still secretly applied and was out their house before the next assembly.
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AGM - Are they now teaching predestination?
by Doubting Bro inanother agm thought.
in tight pants tony's part, he mentioned several times that jehovah draws those he chooses and only those rightly disposed would come in.
and individuals that liked the literature but made no progress towards becoming jw were a "waste of time".. was he setting the stage for them introducing the thought of predestination?
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Cimarrona
In my lifetime, they've always maintained both ideas - that Jehovah "calls" those with the right heart condition to him but simultaneously (and contradictingly) that witnesses have to seek out sheep and, for themselves, constantly reaffirm their faith. I once asked my father: "Why am I being punished for Jehovah not calling me?" The man always has an answer for everything, but this time: silence.
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The First Young People Ask VHS
by Cimarrona indo y'all remember the young people ask tape that came out in the late 90s about "bad association"?
i was a fairly small child with teenage siblings and watched it often (with family and alone cause i thought it was the inside scoop on older kids).
that was back when worldly was still very much so a part of dubspeak (i think they started encouraging people to stop saying it in the mid to late 2000s).
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Cimarrona
Do y'all remember the young people ask tape that came out in the late 90s about "bad association"? I was a fairly small child with teenage siblings and watched it often (with family and alone cause I thought it was the inside scoop on older kids). That was back when worldly was still very much so a part of dubspeak (I think they started encouraging people to stop saying it in the mid to late 2000s). Anyway, I've had JWs treat me a million times worse than any of the "bad" kids in that movie, before and after I faded. There was a convention right after I left and my absence was noted; you wouldn't believe how many ministerial servants and regular pioneers, single/dating/married, propositioned me via text! As if being a woman outside of their religion meant I was just open to having sex with whomever whenever whatever. IT WAS WILD. But that VHS was hilarious.
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The Ever-Changing Song Book
by Cimarrona inthe songs in the old brown song book were way better than these new ones.
had they not changed the songs, i may never have left (halfway joking).
they gave no feeling, no soul (but of course there's no such thing as soul or whatever)!
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Cimarrona
BUT DO YALL REMEMBER WHEN PRINCE DID THAT CD OF KINGDOM MELODY COVERS THOUGH??? They were all the rage. At least amongst black witnesses. That was until the GB sent out a letter ordering that we not listen to them anymore.
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It's about progress, not perfection...
by scratchme1010 ini guess at this point in time and space i'm ok if there's an indication of things going in the right direction.. my jw father, who joined the jws in 1973 when i was 8, has always had all the characteristics of the stereotypical brainwashed born again weirdo.
as a jw he always felt the need to show that he was more devoted than the rest of the crop.
to him, life became very easy from that point on: "the bible", interpreted by the millions of wt publications, along with the information in the meetings and getting involved in all jw activities, were the answer to everything and anything in his life".
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Cimarrona
Very late to the game.. but thank you for this post. I too have watched my parents age. My aunt died last week, two of my uncles a couple years before that. I asked my mother how she's feeling and her response was, "I know she's not in pain." Which I don't disagree with. I know it's hard on them. I know that they live an anxiety filled life under the surveillance of people half their age who, like all witnesses, are constantly looking for flaws in others. It makes me sad. They're both so brilliant. They could've accomplished so much had they chosen other paths (preferably after I was conceived lol). I'm still learning how to navigate our relationship. But one of the most healing parts is no longer having to lie to them. I lied soooooo much growing up. I never felt like I could tell them the truth about anything, even minor things that in retrospect shouldn't have mattered. Now it's all out there in the open. No shame.
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Your worst convention experience.
by zeb inby a split second rescuing our handicapped son from being pushed down the stairs by a flood of sisters rushing out to see as the drama had started.. the main offender being a special pioneer..
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Cimarrona
Being an awkward adolescent then teenager from 2003-2010, walking the hallways during intermission, often alone or with my childhood best friend who,dumb as a doorknob, was much more attractive to JW boys.
Oh! And the assembly when my menstrual blood leaked and I had a huge stain on black and white dress but my parents refused to bring me home even though we were only 30 minutes away. My dad was one of the assembly overseer people so we were like the last to leave after the whole place had been cleaned and everything.