Posts by doubtfull1799

80

Lots Of Whining And Complaining About Us JW's

by Deaconblues1914 in

in reading these posts, it sounds like a lot of you are very jealous of the wt.

society’s annual income and the money they/we have in the bank.

jehovah has indeed blessed us.

doubtfull1799

Well why don't you tell us about yourself then? So we can get to know the real you. :-)

80

Lots Of Whining And Complaining About Us JW's

by Deaconblues1914 in

in reading these posts, it sounds like a lot of you are very jealous of the wt.

society’s annual income and the money they/we have in the bank.

jehovah has indeed blessed us.

Care to give us any facts/evidence/proof to back up your claim that the "world is getting worse very fast?" Worse in what way? You show your lack of knowledge and thinking ability when you make broad, unsubstantiated and emotional claims like that. If you want to participate here or help people here, you will need to come with some well thought out arguments and proofs, not slogans.

80

Lots Of Whining And Complaining About Us JW's

by Deaconblues1914 in

in reading these posts, it sounds like a lot of you are very jealous of the wt.

society’s annual income and the money they/we have in the bank.

jehovah has indeed blessed us.

doubtfull1799

It is easy to say that you are the only one preaching the good news, when you write the definitions of what the good news is! That automatically rule out anyone else who is not doing it hour way, though they may be working just as hard as you. If you are preaching the good news then why are you not baptising people in the manner you quote from Matthew 28:19,20, in the "name of the father, son and holy spirit?" Is that how you were baptised? I think not. You were baptised in the "name of the father, the son, and the organisation."

You make some pretty poor generalisations here. Many here (myself included) are not disfellowshipped (and even if they were how could you possibly know if they "deserved" it? That is just rude, not very Christian of you is it?) and I would say that most if not all know exactly what "you are really about," as they have live it the same as you. I still visit jw.org regularly but it is now not the ONLY source I use for information.

I certainly have what it takes to practice true Christianity, have been practising it for over 40 years. I don't know how long you have been in the truth or what you have done in service?, but I seriously doubt you can match my service record, which can be seen by looking at my first post. What is sad is that you would make such inflammatory and ignorant statements to people you don't even know, people who may have done more in the organisation than you will ever do...

26

Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 1

by doubtfull1799 in

i was thinking about the fog model this morning, particularly about the "obligation" part.

my mind went back to the last elders school i went to.

one of the parts in the section on appointments was discussing how we should not place too high a bar (human standards) for brothers to try and jump over when we are considering them for appointment as a ministerial servant.

doubtfull1799

Yes neverendingjourney, so true. Very hard to keep up. I served as the PO for many years but move to a new cong before jw.org got into full swing. I used to think how lucky I was that I was no longer PO as I watched how many letters would come into our inboxes every week that needs to be implemented....

26

Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 2 - Cart Work

by doubtfull1799 in

up until i left recently i was participating in the cart work.

in the location where we used to set up near our local mall we never had one person stop and take literature or stop and chat - other than fellow brothers.

i thought maybe it was just a bad location or something.

doubtfull1799

Up until I left recently I was participating in the cart work. In the location where we used to set up near our local mall we never had one person stop and take literature or stop and chat - other than fellow brothers. I thought maybe it was just a bad location or something.
I have an office in the centre of my city and I have recently been having lunch near where the brothers set up their carts and have been observing them for an hour or two at a time during the busiest lunch time traffic. And.... NOTHING!
In all the weeks I have been doing this I have not seen so much as ONE person stop or take anything. I sometimes stop for a quick chat with them on the way home, if it is someone I know, and ask them "how was business today?" They usually confirm that they had no interest, but try to spin it with the positive "but people are seeing us."
I feel so sad for these capable brothers and sisters (some of who are my friends) who sit there for hours on end doing nothing, just baby sitting a cart. How mindless and unproductive. Surely they would be better to get permission from council to just leave a "self-service" rack somewhere, and spend their time doing something more active and productive. I guess they see it as an easy way to get time in compared to the door to door work.
How meaningless and unproductive the ministry has become. In the last 10 years in the one I belonged to only one person came in for thee field - not much to show for the thousands of hours spent in the ministry which are apparently "blessed" by Jehovah.

26

Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 1

by doubtfull1799 in

i was thinking about the fog model this morning, particularly about the "obligation" part.

my mind went back to the last elders school i went to.

one of the parts in the section on appointments was discussing how we should not place too high a bar (human standards) for brothers to try and jump over when we are considering them for appointment as a ministerial servant.

doubtfull1799

I was thinking about the FOG model this morning, particularly about the "Obligation" part.

My mind went back to the last Elders school I went to. One of the parts in the section on appointments was discussing how we should not place too high a bar (human standards) for brothers to try and jump over when we are considering them for appointment as a Ministerial Servant. That they only needed to demonstrate the Biblical qualities to a "reasonable" degree.

Then I was thinking about the very last elders meeting I attended with the CO (which also happened to be the one I resigned at). The body was recommending a fine young man to be appointed as a Mistrial Servant. But the CO squashed our recommendation. This man had made such fine progress in the last couple of years and was doing so much in the congregation, working on sound and stage, handling the accounts (which was always a difficult and time consuming job) etc etc. But his hours were not as high as is normally expected, especially for a brother without kids, just wife to take care of.

We pointed out to the CO that the mans wife was going through some prolonged and difficult health and emotional issues, that the mans hours were not a true reflection of his zeal as he was doing so much (non-witnessing) work in the congregation. However the CO would not have a bar of it. He coldly and unmercifully suggested that all the work this man did for the congregation and the brothers meant nothing if his hours were not at the bar the Society (unofficially but in all reality) set. That this brother should be encouraged to do less other stuff and spend longer out in the ministry, the other stuff (practical and charitable things like helping brothers move house, working on hall maintenance, helping with IT issues at the hall etc). It dismayed me so much and I realised we were all just bean counters, our mentality was only concerned with time sheets, not with real human help.

It disgusted me that a humans worth was measured only by the hours on his report card! This was one of the many reasons I resigned that night. I could not longer be complicit in such an arrangement.

18

new strategy to turn in your time in Japan

by yoko N in

jw.org stickers are passed around among publishers.one brother says "hey you can just turn in your time just driving around streets with this sticker on your car.

" the other side of this car ,(photo) there is a qr code sticker on it.. .

doubtfull1799

Nice to have someone from Japan on the forum here to give us an international flavour and perspective.

58

No more official visits to disfellowshipped & disassociated ones

by AverageJoe1 in

new letter today (please visit avoidjw.org for a copy of the official letter and yes, i also noticed they got the date wrong!).

february 28, 2017. to all bodies of elders.

re: visiting disfellowshipped or disassociated individuals.

doubtfull1799

Mmmm... the "GB has determined." So they are not claiming this is being done in response to Jehovah's direction? It is just their personal response to the matter.

If I was still an elder this would come as a great relief. My B of E were always quite diligent in following through on this and I always found these visits quite difficult and awkward.

It goes to show how little they now care about the principle Jesus gave in Like 15:4 about leaving the hundred behind to find the one lost sheep...

As one of those "lost sheep" myself, only one fellow elder has made any effort or attempt to keep in touch and try to help me. And I love and appreciate him for it because even though his efforts are misguided he is the only one of the body who has genuinely cared about our friendship enough to put doctrine aside and treat me like a human being and not as a mentally diseased person who is beyond fixing. He has also been willing to listen (without judgment) to all the problems I have highlighted with the org, without being too much of an apologist. Though still firmly committed to the org he has shown some integrity and honour which I respect. The others have virtually abandoned me after my two "offical" shepherding calls. I have not had so much as a text message from any of them in over 6 months. From these men I used to consider not only colleagues but friends.

Of course as they would point out I have not made any effort to contact them either, so it goes both ways. But According to Jesus instructions which they claim to be following it is their responsibility to reach out to me, not the other way around.

65

My Introduction - An ex-elder's story of waking up later in life.

by doubtfull1799 in

background:.

my parents got the “truth” while i was in primary school.

i was baptised at 14. i loved school and was extremely studious.

doubtfull1799

Thank you all so much for your replies and welcomes. It was really so heartwarming and I appreciate it so much. Thank you to to those who alas shared their stories and the parts of my story they could relate to - that really helped me. And for those who offered any advice - thank you, I am listening.

@wizzstick - no, I don't see any change in general. That is why I felt so alone.The only thing I see is that our congregation hasn't changed in size in decades. We have only had one baptism (from the field that is, I'm not counting born-ins) in the last decade. We only maintain numbers because people move in and out.

@smiddy - nice to meet fellow Aussies, look forward to talking more

@stuckinarut2 - thank you, yes I hope it helps the lurkers, I have been one for months until this post. And yes I have checked out jwfacts, its a great resource.

@zeb - its very interesting to search the word "evidently" in the Watchtower library, you'll be amazed at how many time it has been used just since 2000! Especially when you consider that it is just a smokescreen for the you don't actually have nay evidence. It's like when countries call themselves "the peoples democratic...." to disguise the fact they are dictatorships! Example: "The people's democratic republic of North Korea," which is neither a democracy or a republic.... hehehe

@tor1500 - thank you for your helpful perspective, much appreciated

@careful - indeed, its symbolic for me of how people of every generation have interpreted the sign a applying to themselves. It shows that the sign is too vague and virtually useless as a tool to identify any time period. Its no better than a horoscope. Its like 2 Tim 3:1-5. The question always asked is: "do you see these things happening now?" but that is the wrong question. The question should be: "Has there ever been time when these things weren't happening?"

@vanderhoven7 - not really, I have not ruled out the possibility of a supernatural deity, I'm open minded about it, but critical analysis of the Bible leads me to the strong conclusion that it is not of divine origin, the same critical analysis that led me to believe the same of the GB. I would need some pretty amazing evidence that would stand up to critical scrutiny to go back to believing in a personal God.

@Ding - I read the Finished Mystery because I wanted to see for myself what "light" we had in 1919 when we were supposedly selected by Jesus. Of course all we had was darkness! This led me into further research on our origins, tracing the Millerite and adventist movements and their influence on Russell etc.

@Blondie - enjoy reading your posts

@flipper - thanks, have certainly done that! As well as Bonnie's book.

@fredpilltwice - like your username too. Love the matrix. I actually asked my brother would he like the blue pill or red pill to save if I could talk to him. At the moment he prefers to live in the Matrix, but I think he is curious.

@giordano - thanks for your thoughts and perspectives, much appreciated

@Still Totally ADD - yes, what took us so long! Just shows how effective indoctrination is if done from an early age

@yoko N - thank you for sharing further afield, I hope it helps the Japanese brothers.

@EdenOne - appreciate your thoughts

@darknight757 - thank you, yes I will.

@Gorbatchov - well done. I would like to go back and get the education I missed, but not sure I have the energy and drive to do it now, we'll see....

@James Jack - I'm sure you will be hearing more from me on that front...

12

Thank you so much - I am really touched

by doubtfull1799 in

just wanted to thank everyone so much for all your responses to my first post.

i am overwhelmed by all the replies and supportive comments that came through overnight while i was asleep here in aussie land!.

i will absolutely endeavour to reply to each one individually but it will take some time as there are a lot to go through.

doubtfull1799

Yes I am an Aussie!

@Onager - yes that's what I fear, I'm hoping for an exception to the rule...

@freddo - no it was hardly discussed here at all. A few publishers and Elders watched it but whitewashed it, claimed the brothers gave a great defence. The body of elders basically had a local needs part about being careful not to believe what you hear in the media - that was the only response, to warn people not to believe anything they hear about it!