@nowwhat - that raises another question, if the angels are gender neutral, why were they only attracted to the women? Why did some not materialise as women to have relations with men?
doubtfull1799
JoinedPosts by doubtfull1799
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Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 3 - Why not create multiple Adam & Eve's?
by doubtfull1799 ini saw a post the other day on another forum (think it was reddit) that put forward the idea that god should have created multiple couples, not just adam and ever.
this idea was so simple and brilliantly logical, that i wish i'd thought of it, but i cannot claim credit!
but it really got me thinking of the practical implications and benefits.... if god had simply created multiple couples instead of one, he would in one foul swoop have solved the problem of incest, as well as have prevented 6 thousand years of human tragedy and a ransom sacrifice being needed etc.
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Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 3 - Why not create multiple Adam & Eve's?
by doubtfull1799 ini saw a post the other day on another forum (think it was reddit) that put forward the idea that god should have created multiple couples, not just adam and ever.
this idea was so simple and brilliantly logical, that i wish i'd thought of it, but i cannot claim credit!
but it really got me thinking of the practical implications and benefits.... if god had simply created multiple couples instead of one, he would in one foul swoop have solved the problem of incest, as well as have prevented 6 thousand years of human tragedy and a ransom sacrifice being needed etc.
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doubtfull1799
I saw a post the other day on another forum (think it was Reddit) that put forward the idea that God should have created multiple couples, not just Adam and Ever. This idea was so simple and brilliantly logical, that I wish I'd thought of it, but I cannot claim credit! But it really got me thinking of the practical implications and benefits...
If God had simply created multiple couples instead of one, he would in one foul swoop have solved the problem of incest, as well as have prevented 6 thousand years of human tragedy and a ransom sacrifice being needed etc
If another couple had proved obedient they could have fathered a perfect human race. If we wanted to test mans obedience he started with too small a sample size. If he created hundreds of couples and most remained obedient, Satan would have no issue to raise. Jehovah could have written Adam and Eve off as an “anomaly.” How did he not think to create some “back-ups", and a more diverse gene pool? Of course all atheists know the answer to that. That is a non-issue to them.
Then that got me thinking back to the ransom sacrifice and a problem I had always struggled to grasp, but had never dared to voice until now: I always got the "ransom" part, but never understood the "sacrifice" part. What did Jesus really sacrifice?
His Life?
Can it be considered a great sacrifice if you lend something out for a couple of days only to have it returned to you? Its only a true sacrifice if you give it away permanently, right?
His Human Body?
Well he never needed a human body, or would have wanted one, so how much of a sacrifice was it to get one for a few years and then give it back because you didn't want it anyway?
He suffered?
OK, but in the scheme of things and from a spiritual heavenly standpoint, where a thousand years is but one day, it was mere seconds of his existence. Hardly a scratch, compared to what many humans suffer their whole lives. So how is it the greatest act of love? How was it truly a sacrifice in any real sense?
Please help me reason these concepts out and flesh them out further for addition to my thesis...
By the way, I'm sorry of some of these topics have been covered many times before. Though I have looked over some of the history of this forum, being new here I am not aware of everything... so I ask your indulgence/forgiveness in advance if I am covering old ground here and flogging a dead horse.
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Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 2 - Cart Work
by doubtfull1799 inup until i left recently i was participating in the cart work.
in the location where we used to set up near our local mall we never had one person stop and take literature or stop and chat - other than fellow brothers.
i thought maybe it was just a bad location or something.
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doubtfull1799
@Ding - I would go with number 3, just keeps dubs too busy to think. They accuse "Satan's world" of keeping people too busy to think, but they use the same tactic! -
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Lots Of Whining And Complaining About Us JW's
by Deaconblues1914 inin reading these posts, it sounds like a lot of you are very jealous of the wt.
society’s annual income and the money they/we have in the bank.
jehovah has indeed blessed us.
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doubtfull1799
Well why don't you tell us about yourself then? So we can get to know the real you. :-)
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Lots Of Whining And Complaining About Us JW's
by Deaconblues1914 inin reading these posts, it sounds like a lot of you are very jealous of the wt.
society’s annual income and the money they/we have in the bank.
jehovah has indeed blessed us.
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doubtfull1799
Care to give us any facts/evidence/proof to back up your claim that the "world is getting worse very fast?" Worse in what way? You show your lack of knowledge and thinking ability when you make broad, unsubstantiated and emotional claims like that. If you want to participate here or help people here, you will need to come with some well thought out arguments and proofs, not slogans.
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Lots Of Whining And Complaining About Us JW's
by Deaconblues1914 inin reading these posts, it sounds like a lot of you are very jealous of the wt.
society’s annual income and the money they/we have in the bank.
jehovah has indeed blessed us.
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doubtfull1799
It is easy to say that you are the only one preaching the good news, when you write the definitions of what the good news is! That automatically rule out anyone else who is not doing it hour way, though they may be working just as hard as you. If you are preaching the good news then why are you not baptising people in the manner you quote from Matthew 28:19,20, in the "name of the father, son and holy spirit?" Is that how you were baptised? I think not. You were baptised in the "name of the father, the son, and the organisation."
You make some pretty poor generalisations here. Many here (myself included) are not disfellowshipped (and even if they were how could you possibly know if they "deserved" it? That is just rude, not very Christian of you is it?) and I would say that most if not all know exactly what "you are really about," as they have live it the same as you. I still visit jw.org regularly but it is now not the ONLY source I use for information.
I certainly have what it takes to practice true Christianity, have been practising it for over 40 years. I don't know how long you have been in the truth or what you have done in service?, but I seriously doubt you can match my service record, which can be seen by looking at my first post. What is sad is that you would make such inflammatory and ignorant statements to people you don't even know, people who may have done more in the organisation than you will ever do...
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Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 1
by doubtfull1799 ini was thinking about the fog model this morning, particularly about the "obligation" part.
my mind went back to the last elders school i went to.
one of the parts in the section on appointments was discussing how we should not place too high a bar (human standards) for brothers to try and jump over when we are considering them for appointment as a ministerial servant.
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doubtfull1799
Yes neverendingjourney, so true. Very hard to keep up. I served as the PO for many years but move to a new cong before jw.org got into full swing. I used to think how lucky I was that I was no longer PO as I watched how many letters would come into our inboxes every week that needs to be implemented....
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Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 2 - Cart Work
by doubtfull1799 inup until i left recently i was participating in the cart work.
in the location where we used to set up near our local mall we never had one person stop and take literature or stop and chat - other than fellow brothers.
i thought maybe it was just a bad location or something.
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doubtfull1799
Up until I left recently I was participating in the cart work. In the location where we used to set up near our local mall we never had one person stop and take literature or stop and chat - other than fellow brothers. I thought maybe it was just a bad location or something.
I have an office in the centre of my city and I have recently been having lunch near where the brothers set up their carts and have been observing them for an hour or two at a time during the busiest lunch time traffic. And.... NOTHING!
In all the weeks I have been doing this I have not seen so much as ONE person stop or take anything. I sometimes stop for a quick chat with them on the way home, if it is someone I know, and ask them "how was business today?" They usually confirm that they had no interest, but try to spin it with the positive "but people are seeing us."
I feel so sad for these capable brothers and sisters (some of who are my friends) who sit there for hours on end doing nothing, just baby sitting a cart. How mindless and unproductive. Surely they would be better to get permission from council to just leave a "self-service" rack somewhere, and spend their time doing something more active and productive. I guess they see it as an easy way to get time in compared to the door to door work.
How meaningless and unproductive the ministry has become. In the last 10 years in the one I belonged to only one person came in for thee field - not much to show for the thousands of hours spent in the ministry which are apparently "blessed" by Jehovah. -
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Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 1
by doubtfull1799 ini was thinking about the fog model this morning, particularly about the "obligation" part.
my mind went back to the last elders school i went to.
one of the parts in the section on appointments was discussing how we should not place too high a bar (human standards) for brothers to try and jump over when we are considering them for appointment as a ministerial servant.
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doubtfull1799
I was thinking about the FOG model this morning, particularly about the "Obligation" part.
My mind went back to the last Elders school I went to. One of the parts in the section on appointments was discussing how we should not place too high a bar (human standards) for brothers to try and jump over when we are considering them for appointment as a Ministerial Servant. That they only needed to demonstrate the Biblical qualities to a "reasonable" degree.
Then I was thinking about the very last elders meeting I attended with the CO (which also happened to be the one I resigned at). The body was recommending a fine young man to be appointed as a Mistrial Servant. But the CO squashed our recommendation. This man had made such fine progress in the last couple of years and was doing so much in the congregation, working on sound and stage, handling the accounts (which was always a difficult and time consuming job) etc etc. But his hours were not as high as is normally expected, especially for a brother without kids, just wife to take care of.
We pointed out to the CO that the mans wife was going through some prolonged and difficult health and emotional issues, that the mans hours were not a true reflection of his zeal as he was doing so much (non-witnessing) work in the congregation. However the CO would not have a bar of it. He coldly and unmercifully suggested that all the work this man did for the congregation and the brothers meant nothing if his hours were not at the bar the Society (unofficially but in all reality) set. That this brother should be encouraged to do less other stuff and spend longer out in the ministry, the other stuff (practical and charitable things like helping brothers move house, working on hall maintenance, helping with IT issues at the hall etc). It dismayed me so much and I realised we were all just bean counters, our mentality was only concerned with time sheets, not with real human help.
It disgusted me that a humans worth was measured only by the hours on his report card! This was one of the many reasons I resigned that night. I could not longer be complicit in such an arrangement.
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new strategy to turn in your time in Japan
by yoko N injw.org stickers are passed around among publishers.one brother says "hey you can just turn in your time just driving around streets with this sticker on your car.
" the other side of this car ,(photo) there is a qr code sticker on it.. .
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doubtfull1799
Nice to have someone from Japan on the forum here to give us an international flavour and perspective.