Posts by tor1500

16

EU court upholds an employer's right to ban religious symbols

by careful in

first i should say that i do not like islam for multiple reasons, not the least of which is the moslem treatment of women.

still, the free exercise of anyone's peaceful observance of their religion, including moslems, trumps my personal preferences.

also, living in america, i evidently enjoy a greater degree of religious liberty than i see in recent years in continental europe, something that continues to baffle me.. today the european court of justice, the same group that has stood up for the rights of jws, has decreed that it is ok for employers to ban the wearing of religious symbols among employees.

tor1500

Hi,

I think that you should be able to wear what you want according to your culture....as long as you don't infringe on others...someone said, they like the difference in cultures, I agree...

I'm a witness...I don't wear anything that identifies me as one....I will not wear a pin that say JW.org...being a JW isn't a badge of honor as many witnesses believe...I show by my conduct who I am...I don't want anyone to avoid me because I'm a witness... when I speak with folks it's just about what is fair and right...then they ask me, why are you so even tempered, it seems nothing bothers you...and so on....I share with them why I'm at peace....viola, a couple of minutes I can add to my REPORT CARD TO GOD...LOL...LOL... might even place some literature....say I'm a witness but I'm not a fanatical one...if you like what I say, and want to talk, I'm avail. If you don't like what I say....then I don't worry about it....but when they are interested in the org....I'm very honest....I tell them ..we are imperfect people so don't come to the hall, and think we walk water....we are human,and do messed up stuff just like everyone else...I explain, the love bombing then the DF'ing..and so on, I lay it all out...then it's up to them...see what the JW's do they reel you in without telling you the truth, then they love bomb you then you're so deep in...and you see how they really are....then you are stuck...you have to be a pretty strong person to leave...depending if you care if they care....

Side point...someone said, the NYT picked up this story....so why haven't they picked up the story of child abuse in the org...amazing.....they care more about the outer person more than the lives of children...how is it that gets printed but the many stories of child abuse....too many to ignore....the media is all connected...NYT knows about the ARC....everything is being exposed except the org...

So the question is who is protecting the org...

Tor

95

Who can explain why the "Two Witness" rule is wrong, in the simplest term?

by DATA-DOG in

with all the legalese being tossed around, and the expert manipulation on the part of the wtbts, who can explain why the "two witness" is being perverted by the wtbts?

i don't care if you're a bible believer and want to approach this from a biblical standpoint, or if you simply use logic and reason.

how would you explain this subject to a j-dub, or even a non-dub?.

tor1500

Hi LonghairGal,

Exactly, I brought that out earlier, what fool would bring another person to witness them do something wrong...

Didn't Jesus say he came to put an end to the law....and I do remember the ARC asking if the JW's follow the NT or the OT, I think the reply was NT...so if Jesus came to put an end to the law...Deut. is null and void...

What Jesus is saying...your old credit card has expired....yep, you made a lot of bad and good purchases...but I came to pay your credit card in full...and use this new credit card...old one no good...

The 2 witness rule is a weak defense...they think they are saying something...but, if we are in the NT...the OT stuff don't apply anymore...

In the words of Johnny Cochran...if it don't apply let it fly....

Tor

11

Scriptures that now have such a different meaning?!

by stuckinarut2 in

it struck me that so many of the scriptures that the society uses to condemn others, can actually apply to them!.

when we read them without the application that the society enforces, they can make you have that "ah-ha!

" moment.... for instance, how about:.

tor1500

Hi Stuckinarut2,

So funny you say that....I've always thought it...the scriptures they use applies to them...that's why they know it so well...

The illustration of the system in the WT...the man and the clay feet, that's the org.. with this ARC thing the feet of clay are breaking up...

The other scripture that comes to mind is that ...they do into widows homes and make them worse then they were...

What about the one that says, if someone is in need don't just wish them well...help them....

I could go on....Oh and one more...the one where the people are tossed to and fro like the waves (doctrine)

one day it's this truth then the next, another truth to replace the other truth that they replaced the other truth...

The org. is doing just what they state others are doing...and they know what they are doing so well...because they do it too...

Tor

9

Catching up on the A.R.C.

by The Searcher in

i haven't been here for several days, so apologies if similar comments have been posted regarding messrs spinks' & o'brien's "spiritual & scriptural" replies to the australian royal commission last week.. perhaps this line of questioning by mr. stewart could have helped exposed the org's corruption of the "two witness" rule:.

mr stewart: mr. spinks, does the jehovah's witnesses' leadership base their "two witness" rule solely on the bible?.

mr. spinks: yes.

tor1500

Hi,

I am not up on all the ARC stuff. at one time I used to think....get it over with....it's taking too long...but, now that I think of it...The GB's are crapping in their pants...don't let their calmness fool you...JW's are used to being in court fighting for rights...and to be honest, they have implemented laws that in the long run should have been addressed...they go to court for the rights of the org....ok, that's ok....but this is different...they are being accused...they are not fighting for any rights...

This is serious business....and the org. knows it....they are in the big office trying to wiggle out of it...but they can't....they can pay out all they want...this is a different fight for the JW's...it's not about their rights it's about the congregation rights and the brothers are supposed to protect us....so they should tell the congregation to go to the authorities....then go to the brothers .....not the other way around...

I think the GB's are not getting any sleep, because they are waiting on God, and he just sitting there...saying...I never told you that you JW's are my mouth piece and you want to protect my name...I don't need no humans to protect my name...you went around bashing other religions...if you are waiting for me (Jehovah) to put words in your mouth....I don't think so....

The longer this goes on the more they will sweat the more they will have to put out fires and soon the congregations will know...but no matter what, many will stay....

Tor

47

What do you think the Australian Government will do?

by Richard Oliver in

i am not wanting to start a fight.

i just want to hear what people think.

honestly and realistically, what do you think the australian government will do, with watchtower, when they receive the full arc report?.

tor1500

Hi Landy,

Exactly, only place I see stuff about the JW's is on XJW sites...

I live in the USA, we advertise any and everything...knives that cut through shoes...(bet you don't have one...LOL). Their on the channel, no they are on this channel, it's coming on this time, no, it's central time, they cancelled it...& so on.... It's not big news in Australia, other wise the witnesses would be leaving in droves and warning us other JW's...most likely folks don't even know there in their own home town...JW's are only a big deal to JW's and xJW's...oh and people who are associated with them and or know them....or others who are just misfits of society, those are the curious ones...that's basically who JW's attract to...a little unstable...a little depressed, a little this or that. Some are functional unstable folks just barely making it...then there are the full fledge ones...that's another thread...

The best that may come out of this is some eyes will be opened..and some prides will be swallowed....but it'll go down just like the Catholics...

If there is a God, he'll take the org. down bit by bit just like the Catholics...again, if there is a God, he'll make them eat crow....not non of these sites or anything else...if we really pay attention....we can see it a happening...maybe not the way we want it to...because there are some really innocent folks in the JW's...they have to be let down easy....maybe I'm hoping but I see little bits and pieces of info. being leaked and the friends do know..I speak with them, some even say, oh, that's why the org. is begging for money...not everybody is drinking the koolaide but stay for whatever their reasons maybe...don't sleep on the friends...they just can't YOU...what they know because they saw what happened to YOU....

I think some would like to see the org. change some of their policies... and would most likely return...for the most part...they should just teach the gospel...and stay out of folks business...run the org...but don't try to run folk's lives...Leave us accountable to our own choices...gives us what you think God's guidelines may be...then let us make our own decision without penalty....BASICALLY...STOP CONTROLLING...AND DELIVER THE MESSAGE...AND STOP PREDICTING...

We all watch Law and Order...it only takes a hour for them to get their man...next thing is the trial, then, sentencing...I'm not saying the ARC should only take a hour...but this is a clear cut case...It won't take a hour to find the perp...he or her is in the congregation....what's the stalling about....because pedophile isn't looked as, as it needs to be addressed...we have a president that is married to a women half his age...when you go on sites for dating they say they are at least 18....and their are folks out there that will bite...The mind set of the world still regarding child abuse...IT WAS THE VICTIMS FAULT...she or he was so attractive ....all the while this is a sick person....Here is another approach...why not call the place for mental illness...call somebody but don't sweep it under the rug...

I think more folks will be aware and not so smug....but with all they have....it's open and closed....but I smell a rat..

Tor

36

What is the basis for advising “Don’t pursue higher studies”?

by venus in

two elders who visited my friend last week encouraged her not to pursue higher studies.

it seems they are dishing out the same old stuff: “the end is imminent, and this is the time to do more in the service; hence don’t waste your resources on higher studies.”.

i wonder whether there was some official communiqué (something that is sent out recently like letter to the elders, or kingdom ministry article …).

tor1500

Hi LongHairGal,

As you say they preach poverty to others but they don't take the same advice...My time with the witnesses just show me they are kids dressed up in adult clothing....always whinning...

If you are the type of person who lives off little or nothing monthly, they love it...but will they simplify their life...no way...

I think the general opinion here is witnesses say one thing and do another....

Also, many of the sisters are starting to say they aren't listening to the brothers no more. I think they are beginning to see they don't know what they are doing...2 sisters told me they ain't telling the brothers nothing...

Wonder if that'll be a trend....

Do you think the org. is slowing leaking to be exposed ?

Tor

95

Who can explain why the "Two Witness" rule is wrong, in the simplest term?

by DATA-DOG in

with all the legalese being tossed around, and the expert manipulation on the part of the wtbts, who can explain why the "two witness" is being perverted by the wtbts?

i don't care if you're a bible believer and want to approach this from a biblical standpoint, or if you simply use logic and reason.

how would you explain this subject to a j-dub, or even a non-dub?.

tor1500

Hi,

What is the debate....CALL THE POLICE...

As usual I have a story...two sisters I know ok make that 3 sisters I know...experienced their child being molested...where did they go....to the brothers...at the time, I was new...so I just assumed they called the police...come to find out they are still so angry (yet still come to the meetings, etc). but angry because the brothers to this day did not do anything....it struck me strange that the brothers...I thought, what about the police...one sister told me her story....if I were her, I wouldn't have gone to the authorities either...her story was a little fishy...plus she has issues with all brothers...her hubby was no good...he was a brother too...many of the friends leave their kids with other friends, thinking it's ok...once, I was going home from a meeting...saw one of he young ones and asked where are your parent and your bros. and sisters...he said, he was the only one that came to the meeting....he lives within walking distance..anyway, I said, I'll take him home but told him to call home to let them know I was bringing him...he called no answer...and he had no cell phone either...then he had no key, we went by his house, no answer...so I took him for something to eat just to eat up time...we talked...nice young man... so I said, lets go back to your house...I think it's time...I dropped him off, & it took a long time for his family to let him in the house...so what am I saying here...many of the friends, leave their children to the friends...the parents are so darn tired, they give them up for just a chance to breathe...

Again, I'm in the hall, I see the good the bad and the ugly...yes, most of the parents keep a close look out, but parents do get tired sometimes and don't make the right choices...

Again, we know there is child abuse in the org...what's ever in the world is in places of worship...the same folks outside the church are the same folks in the church....ain't no where safe...

But again...forget about all this legal stuff....CALL THE POLICE...DARN IT...We are dancing all over the problem...child abuse is wrong...we all know that...it's a crime we all know that...

Call the police.

Tor

21

This week's wt paragraph 13 and 15 free will

by poopie in

jw
friends

does forcing people to shun other people violate free will?

tor1500

Hi,

As of all you know I'm still in...and go to the meetings...I think the flow of this WT article will be to point out not our free will but God's free will to love folks anyway, even if they don't obey him...so the same to us...so we should use our free will to freely (another operative word that will be brought out).

The org. is saying you have free will and use all the scriptures about free will...oh you have the free will to stay or go...if you stay...you must use your free will to freely, there goes that word again, follow the org. aka:Jehovah. And you know the rules...so you freely agree to them...if you go freely, we won't stop you...but if you come back we have the free will to shun you....freely, there is that word again...

You have the free will to dispute the WT and how the scriptures don't line up...but they have the free will to freely tell you, you are using your free will to dispute God...(what they don't know, we are not disputing God but the org.man).

All this new literature and free will and other stuff they say to look like they are warm and fuzzy with the congregation....the public literature, doesn't really show who the WT really is...if the Arc were to look at the public edition compared to the congregation...different info....They are trying to show that the org. don't force folks to do nothing...so if they are further investigated...they will say, see, we don't force them to say....(but in their minds they are saying, we don't force them but we scare'em to death).

I have a long time friend....she knows I'm a witness...loves me...hates the witnesses...she once asked that if a person is DF'd are they allowed to come back to the hall, I said yes, she said she heard that we don't talk to them, I said true again...then she asked do they come back even though no one speaks to them, again, confirmed, then she said/asked...so why do they come back and subject themselves to being ignored....why don't they go somewhere else...I said, many don't think there is any where else to go, so they just suck it up for various reasons...

I'm not here to judge a person of why if person is df'd or da'd comes back to the hall....this is their free will to do so...and that free will is fueled by emotions....so our feelings sometimes make us do things that to the normal person seems odd...sure the person has free will to stay or go, but what about the family attachments are they old enough to be on their own...most likely not, since most parents want their kids to full time preach yet want them out of the house too...Some of the witness parents don't teach their kids how to take care of themselves...

Anyway, this free will article is just more smoke and mirrors for the time that the walls of scrutiny of the internet or authorities close in on the org....

They are saying we have free will but use it the way we tell you to use it....

Tor

36

What is the basis for advising “Don’t pursue higher studies”?

by venus in

two elders who visited my friend last week encouraged her not to pursue higher studies.

it seems they are dishing out the same old stuff: “the end is imminent, and this is the time to do more in the service; hence don’t waste your resources on higher studies.”.

i wonder whether there was some official communiqué (something that is sent out recently like letter to the elders, or kingdom ministry article …).

tor1500

Hi,

At my KH, most of the kids go to college...some fast track courses they take...most of the congregation are minorities....got to have a degree, to even get your resume read...so education was blocked at one time for minorities...so not going to college is not an option...there was a time...minorities didn't have an opportunity to go to college....even to work at McDonald's you need a degree....

So all that to say....my congregation did not heed that one...A sister told me once that an Elder was talking about some young person going to college, but should be in full time ministry...the sister said...so why are your kids in college...crickets....

JW's just like to cry poverty...but go to their homes, see their cars...they travel....all this in secret....They love that scripture where Jesus says, I have no place to lay down...meaning he was homeless...but the JW's won't take it that far...they just give poverty lip service....

The young ones are going to college...and if this religion continues..we are going to see some changes...if you read some of the lit....you will see they are changing....at one time you could not clap once a person was re-instated...now they do...at one time couldn't pray for anyone except if they were a JW or a study...that's changed...it's all subliminal....you just have to pay attention...the old lit. the JW's never smiled....now look at the pictures...grinning from ear to ear....little tiny changes...they got a good PR person...

Tor

95

Who can explain why the "Two Witness" rule is wrong, in the simplest term?

by DATA-DOG in

with all the legalese being tossed around, and the expert manipulation on the part of the wtbts, who can explain why the "two witness" is being perverted by the wtbts?

i don't care if you're a bible believer and want to approach this from a biblical standpoint, or if you simply use logic and reason.

how would you explain this subject to a j-dub, or even a non-dub?.

tor1500

Hi,

The org. dips and dabs in the OT, when it suits them...Jesus came to abolish the law...if folks still followed the law, then there is no faith is Jesus....I really would like to be a lawyer...not a big shot, just your Joe Blow lawyer...the question to ask the org. is to get their stance... ?? Isn't that scripture in the Ot or Nt...they will say, the Hebrew scriptures (ot)...then ask....didn't Jesus say, he is the law...Most folks that don't even know the bible do know that the OT isn't supposed to be followed no more....That scripture is null and void....and they know it...they had to support what they did .......so they had to dig into their bag of tricks.....

But to be honest....if you were apart of this ARC thing, sitting there and hearing all these abuse cases and the only support the org. has is....A SCRIPTURE...a scripture to support why they didn't report these cases...If I was a judge...I really wouldn't have to hear any more...down would come my gravel.....GUILTY....

It's taking to long to get this done...imagine, you going into court....you are accused of a crime...and you plead not guilty....and say to the judge...No one witnessed the crime I did...so I plead deut. 17:6...The court would haul your behind out of their and hold you until you came up with a better excuse...something that is from the law not the bible...You can't go into court and use scriptures as your defense....maybe to support a right, but support a criminal act...

Tor