yesterday i read jeremiah 8-11 because that's what was studied in the clam.
i am in a different city and decided to go to the meeting to check it out and possibly ask the witnesses some questions and see how they treat a "newcomer".anyways...nwt, 1984 version:.
(jeremiah 10:13) 13 at [his] voice there is a giving by him of a turmoil of waters in the heavens, and he causes vapors to ascend from the extremity of the earth.
Hi,
They can say it absent, but you got to say it's a good story....because it really puts us humans in our places...because no matter how many times we read in the bible not to judge....we humans always put a coma..even though we don't like to be judged but we want to judge...that's why those passages may have been absent...either way, Jesus is saying...if I'm not judging, neither should you.
Tor
jehovah's witnesses mobilize global response to threat of ban in russia.
march 21, 2017. https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/russia/jw-mobilize-global-response-to-threat-of-ban/.
new york—threatened with an imminent ban on their worship in russia, jehovah’s witnesses are responding with a direct appeal to kremlin and supreme court officials for relief through a global letter-writing campaign.
Hi,
No shunning no control....
JW's are always being banned somewhere....that's their badge of honor...maybe if they just went around and preached instead of trying to convince and let people make up their own minds, maybe Russia would leave them alone....but to say they are the true religion....that's a little too presumptuous...oh, wasn't that this past weeks Sunday WT....
The WT society reminds me of that movie with Gloria Swanson, a faded star but didn't realize she was faded....so the org. is still waiting for their close up that they will never get again in life anymore....If the Russians tell of what the witnesses do, not political wise but just in-house....it may be hard for the public to see it as persecution....and it will be hard for the friends to deny that is how the org. operates...this could open a can of worms that we may not see as an opportunity to expose the org...but you never know...
Tor
yesterday i read jeremiah 8-11 because that's what was studied in the clam.
i am in a different city and decided to go to the meeting to check it out and possibly ask the witnesses some questions and see how they treat a "newcomer".anyways...nwt, 1984 version:.
(jeremiah 10:13) 13 at [his] voice there is a giving by him of a turmoil of waters in the heavens, and he causes vapors to ascend from the extremity of the earth.
Hi,
Why couldn't they have just used the word lightning....oh, I know, they wanted to sound more intelligent than they are and show they did their research...
In the revised NWT, they took out a whole story of Jesus in John 8:3-11...the story is an adultery female was brought to Jesus, they wanted to test him....he was walking around preaching love but they wanted to see if he would uphold the law...so, they say the law says when an adulterer female is caught she is to be stoned....what would you do, well, Jesus didn't say a word, he drew in the sand and asked if any one hasn't sinned cross this line...well, one by one, they left...Jesus answered them but didn't what he did was prick the conscience of his audience and since no one in his life has never sinned....Jesus was saying...back up...who are you to judge...This particular passage many bibles say they are not sure if it's a part of the original text...oh yes it is....why they say that, that passage puts an end to all judging...that passage can shut down an excommunication or df;ing...As a matter of fact that passage puts an end to religion all together....I think all witnesses should make copies of this passage and if they ever get called into the back room...hand that around the room to the brothers....what this story is saying if Jesus don't judge who are you...then Jesus tells the woman to stop sinning...he doesn't have elders keep their eye on her...or others in the area tattle on her...he just tells her to stop...the rest is up to her...
So, all that to say this...they re-wrote the bible to fit words like...governing body, territory...words that pertain to them...
Tor
i am just curious.. i have a cousin who is a baptist and his church streams their sunday services and i've been checking them out before i go to meeting with my jw wife.. i haven’t been to a church except for the occasional funeral and wedding and the only sermons i had heard were the tel-evangelist type.
anyway, all the church bashing by jws over the years made me unsure what to expect and i was pleasantly surprised.
they do use the bible and they don't spend the whole time begging for money.
Hi,
I'm still a witness, I come from a Baptist church...fell into the witnesses...all religion is a business...some do more for people than others ...what I found out that most churches leave your salvation up to you...they don't monitor you like the witnesses do...basically you are on your own...if you are the outgoing type, you'll make some friends...and friends that won't rat you out...friends that will disagree with the pastor, and you can talk about it among yourselves with out any repercussions...it's called freedom of speech....but you can't go to the pastor and point out his error, but todays pastors are younger, so maybe you can...
Many witnesses think other churches talk about them but they don't....it's the other way around...most places of worship are about motivational speaking and bringing in the young..yeah, some of these mega churches go a little overboard but they are bringing in men(hard to bring men into church, they don't like listening to another man tell them what to do & men, you know I'm right, you don't listen, but that's how you are wired), women (always will bring them), children. They are preaching Love and of course...$$$$, but that's all places of worship...I don't think many leave JW's and go somewhere else...because in other churches, you don't get validated for just being able to read from a paragraph or a scripture...a pre-schooler can do that...today's churches you are a part of a band.....so no one is singled out...only if you join different activities of that church....witnesses can't go to other churches...because whatever they do for God, has to be counted and seen.
Tor
from an apologist site:.
http://thirdwitness.com/607_bce/www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/realissue.html.
hence, counting back from 537 bce (the year the bible says the jews returned home) for a full seventy years, we arrive at the year 607 bce.. .
Hi,
Ah, heck, call a witness that is in living in that part of the world...where there should be some record of it...If us Americans have information on this...why not the place that it happened....
I've said on this board before, I would like to go there and find out for myself...not that their info. might be that accurate, but it'll be a dam sight better than the proof of the WT....
That's just my 2 or 3 cents....
They found the Bible, so why can't this info. be found as well....
Tor
this youtube is entirely interesting ( to me anyway) about the affects of stress on the body, and what causes that sress.
the jws who feel "at the top" in the jw, actually have reduced their stress d a degree.
when they feel empowered by "privileges" it brings a positive effect on stress levels, especially when in the outside of the jw world they have low level jobs with demanding supervisors, etc.
Hi,
I'm in...meaning I'm a witness...there are many reasons they don't face the facts...because when they heard they are coming back to earth after they die or if the GB comes they can step into paradise, they were sold. Most everyone wants to come back...death is scary...so most folks believed in heaven, so when they heard, they were not going to heaven but back to earth....what a relief...whew !!!!!...that was music to their ears...
Yet, I do know a few friends, that don't drink the kool-aide and we talk...and only to one another...we say we go to the meetings when we can and out in FS when we can...
I think many do know TTATT, but don't care...many just have jobs...and because they can pull out a scripture at lighting speed, they think that makes them smarter than most....I even have professionals in my congregation, they drink the koolaide too...because they are so smart they can defend the org, intellectually...but they only stick to WT lit....
Facts don't move JW's...They have found a place that they think that has made them smarter then others...in life they are small fish in a big pond...but in their heads they think they are big fish in a little pond of bible knowledge, but they forget people can read now....
They like the stress, it means they are tired of this system so they are in harmony with God...Stress and depression or whatever other illness they can come up with is a sign of how Satan is persecuting them so they can't go out in service or come to the meetings...but what I have come to find out, they never came to the meetings all the time or FS when they were so called well....I would go out in FS and folks would call me a newbie of where we are in the territory...they didn't call the sisters that have been witnesses for years...they say, oh, they don't come out in FS that much...some of the friends don't work so they make ones feel that do work that while we are working they are out in full time FS...NOT...they all have some type of illness to keep them from FS and meetings because they think they holy and making points with God & their illnesses are just excuses, they use them at their jobs and other places..they ain't reliable...witnesses never appreciate what blessings they have....just like facts don't change them, trying to uplift is futile as well, I know...I try...you can never encourage them they always feel guilty or down... again, this is all to make points with God....
Witnesses think being gloom and doom means they have the same mind set that God has....so if they are sick of this system and since they know God so well, well certainly God is sick of it too...delusional...
Tor
from an apologist site:.
http://thirdwitness.com/607_bce/www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/607/realissue.html.
hence, counting back from 537 bce (the year the bible says the jews returned home) for a full seventy years, we arrive at the year 607 bce.. .
Hi,
Many of the witnesses are illiterate....and they are told that if you read all the publications that you are just as educated as anyone who goes to college...so many eat that up, and because they can recite how this 607 is calculated and how Jesus is Michael, and the 144,000, being illiterate and not well educated...because they were able to learn this from the org., they are grateful and drink every word that the org. serves...because without Jehovah they wouldn't be this smart....I'm on the inside...so I hear different reasons why some are witnesses no matter what facts you show them....I know another sister that don't care about the doctrine but that she finds peace in the hall...The org. makes simple people feel they are more than what they are or were...so telling them 607 or 507, 2077, don't matter...they don't care...they have found a place where they fit...
Yet, some are very smart, and can come up with 607....but only if they use WT...I have heard many people who have researched outside the org...and found out it wasn't 607...I know of 2 brothers that are no longer elders because of this date....one that I know...he is doing well...very smart man....great writer....the other brother I only know of...and both of them are not returning to the org...they say never...
I'm a baby boomer, so you can figure approx. my age....I have an old set of encylcopedias' my mom gave me years ago....they are maybe over 50 yrs. old...I looked up when it fell, they said, 5 something or other....don't remember the exact date but it wasn't 607...and doesn't the org. quote the encyclopedia ? I could have gone to the brothers and showed them...but what's the point, they would find a reason to reject it...so as long as I know...who cares...
If the org, isn't brought down to their knees about the ARC thing...and it continues, when we are dead and gone, they'll change it...they'll have to...they'll get too many letters from readers...oh you do know that's where the new lights come from...letters from readers...many of the readers poke holes in their doctrines...so not right away, but sometimes they get so many letter regarding a doctrine they are wrong about....and they can no longer support their doctrine...viola....new light...so the new lights don't come from the org...they come from the readers or witnesses that disguise themselves as just readers....
But again no matter what you say Many say they were born a witness and they will die a witness..that's what Baptist say...
They think it's the truth and it keeps their little life all air tight...but what they don't know, no matter how air tight you try to keep your life...something always seeps in...
I used to get frustrated with the friends and yell out in my head...hey stupid...don't you see...waste of time...only when they if they get mistreated then you'll hear them from the rooftop....then they'll expose all they always KNEW ALL THE TIME...witnesses are alright until you mess with them...they have a default button to tear you a new behind...they go from sugar to crap (I won't cuss, but that's not the word I wanted to use), in a nano second...again, I'm a witness and I see all this first hand...if you really want to see who a witness is drive with them or have be a passenger, or go to a restaurant with them....no class, but pretend to have glass by being rude to the help if the silverware is dirty...like they were to the manor born, give me a break...
So leave them to their 607...just sit back, when their toes get stepped on, expect a call out of the blue...
Tor
thinking people have always sought a right reason for people to feel self-motivated to love each other (which is the goal of all religions).
in the process each religious leader presented some reasons which were not adequate because division appeared once the founder left the stage.. however, carl sagan (astronomer, astrophysicist, and science-fiction novelist ….etc) got it right when he wrote: “for small creatures, such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love” (contact, chapter 24 p. 430).
when an interviewer said this was the best of his quotes and asked him to put it in simple words, sagan said: “we exist in vastness of the universe, hence should have vast (great) mind of treating every one as residing/subsisting on the same (planet) home who breathe the same air (in contrast to going into smallness of contraction with each one seeking own interest).
Hi,
Religion has forgot the heart of the matter....Love God and Love one another....that is the meat and potatoes of the Good News...the other stuff religion has added is too serve a different meal every week in their weekly sermon, so after a time...they took off the meat replaced it with a doctrine, replaced the meat replaced the potatoes with rules...viola, there you have it religion...
The Good News is simple and to the point....it's a good thing that scientist discover things...what else have we humans to do but discover and research....so interesting what they find...maybe it was a big bang or maybe it was God...
No matter how we got here...we have to watch out for each other...doesn't matter who motivated that thought religion or science...imagine if we were to soften our hearts and work together in this world...I'm not living in fairy land, but just think....the world is a mess, and we are all in this together...especially those in the USA, we got Trump, that's a scary thought...so we need to come together and see what this cat is doing...because he is rich and powerful...the scariest thing is to have a politician that can buy and sell the world...and he is in charge...
In the USA we got bigger fish to fry...so as far as religion at this point...folks are just trying to brace themselves and see what Trump will do...so are folks worrying about witnesses...NOT....or science...NOT....
Trump is in charge....and he thinks he's in charge of the world...(Pinky and the Brain)....Trump may ban all religion..who can tell..
Tor
i don’t remember having any invisible friends when i was a really little boy, i don’t know if such a thing actually exists, i’ve only ever seen it in movies?
of course it might have looked to others like i was talking to someone on occasions, but i’m sure it would have just been me talking to myself.
the thing is though, i got introduced to an invisible friend in my pre-teens, and i kept the relationship going well into adulthood.
@Perry,
Spot on....Why don't the JW's believe that Jehovah changed the game.....He sent his son to die for us...the Bible tells of the coming of Jesus...it's threaded throughout the OT...We are Christians...why because of Christ....if Christ didn't arrive....no Christianity....
We pray in the name of Jesus Christ....but we don't really give honor to him...we believe if we imitate him that's enough...but the bible says...Jesus is the way...Paul preached of the Christ...
The problem witnesses have is...the Trinity....some folks believe God and Jesus are the same...maybe yes maybe no...maybe when this is all over, we will find out..me I believe that God did sent his son for us ....this is the greatest sacrifice known to man...nobody would do that....So God LOVED the world so much that he gave his son...anyone believe in him...I think you got the picture.
So their prayers can't be answered because their hearts are not right with God....they haven't grasped the concept....God sacrificed his only Son...and he watched him die...to prove a point...God could have saved him, but he didn't....many have asked God, where were you when they killed my son/daughter, etc...God can identify, he can answer the same place I was when mine was killed.....God has feelings just like us...now, I know God is showing how we can't do without him...and showing Satan whatever, I don't know at this point...
I am a witness, but I know that my faith is in Jesus for sacrificing his life for me and Jehovah for sending his son because he loves us...many think how could God love us, he has destroyed men, women and children, but he had a mission to bring his son into the world....that was all he wanted to do...send his son for mankind...and humans did everything possible to stop this mission...
But God prevailed...I love what you said, we didn't Jesus much of a chance....Exactly...
Many know but don't know...and many don't know that most folks don't believe in the trinity....but so what if they do, at least the believe....so petty....Jesus said if they are not against us, then they are for us...
Tor
i don’t remember having any invisible friends when i was a really little boy, i don’t know if such a thing actually exists, i’ve only ever seen it in movies?
of course it might have looked to others like i was talking to someone on occasions, but i’m sure it would have just been me talking to myself.
the thing is though, i got introduced to an invisible friend in my pre-teens, and i kept the relationship going well into adulthood.
Hi All,
As always good replies....Growing up...where does one start with growing up.....it's so individual....some folks never grow up....as everyone knows I have a story....but will spare you ( I hear you saying.....thank goodness...she is so long winded)...I'm a witness...not born in....I'm considered a newbie, so they think I'm too new to know...if they only knew what I know and they don't...or they do but don't...
I think we all are a child at heart...but that's ok as long as you take care of your responsibilities....I think people like being a witness because they leave their spirituality to someone else...they like to have their lives all neat and clean...look at some of the friends books, bible, and lit....they take care of it, like it's the holy grail...Witnesses are little children that never grew up....they just dress in adult clothing...They love living in the future...that's why the majority of them are depressed....they do nothing for no one, only if they are seen....
There is a common trait among witnesses.....it's a need to be validated...it's a need for attention....again, I'm a witness...and many of the friends come from homes that are cold...oh yeah, they study and do all the right things..they raise their kids...but all of this is served on a cold plate...
Most people are self-centered to some degree...but religious people don't want to die...believe in heaven/paradise...why? Because their self centeredness is taken to another step....do you know that most witnesses, no matter how humble they may appear...they really deep inside believe they are magnificent....so wonderful that how could the new world/heaven be without them...
I believe in God, why, because for me it keeps me humble...not thinking it's all about me...I pray to God a lot, but mostly I just thank him... I pray to God and sometimes it doesn't happen or not at that moment...but while I'm waiting on God...I'm living in doors..something we all take for granted...I'm not trying to convert anyone...but I appreciate the air I breathe....the things in life I have...this could be God or not...but whatever I'm thankful...
We all have to grow up...we all have to take responsibility for ourselves... we can't blame the org. for everything...no one can tell me that when you were a witness that your conscience didn't prick you, when you heard from the stage...don't donate to this charity...give us your money...yet, never hear that they helped anyone else but a witness, yet they say they do, but in the videos of disaster areas, only JW's.... you have to have a self centered gene to sit there and not say ....it's wrong....even though you stayed, it never occurred to folks...that's it's wrong...
I think it's up to the person what they want to believe...but in this life no one promised anyone fair..we don't always get what you want....what we go thru in life develops our character....what type of adults would we be if we asked and got everything we wanted....what type of person is that...A CHILD...Children ask all day long and we adults don't give them everything they ask for because everything they ask for either they don't need or it's not good for them....and when children don't get what they want what do they do....they throw a tantrum and say, I hate you....because a child can't process that they can't have everything they ask for...fast forward to adulthood, we can't have everything we ask for....
We are all responsible for our lives...just because we are or were witnesses you were not supposed to give over your entire being to the org....the word is balance....
Religion/spirituality...believing in God, not believing God....what is our responsibility to others, do you really need an org. to tell you how to act....
Nothing wrong with believing in something...if we didn't have God, folks have a need to believe in something...even those in the remotest part of the world, where religion hasn't been yet, they have their own Gods'...it's something that is in us that need to have direction...Man has a need to believe something outside himself...some believe in the Tooth Fairy, Sand Man, Santa Claus, rosary, self help books...anything to help them through this life.....
Religion ain't too bad...the problem is the people...how they react to religion....they take it all out of context...then try to rule you ....I've been in other churches...of course they preach heaven and hell, but they also give sermons that are so thought provoking...they make you look at yourself...as you know many don't want to take responsibility for themselves.....The org. made me do it...Church is wonderful, there are so many non-denominational churches, and they just preach love of one another and God...but JW's don't know that, never took the time find out what others believe, so they let someone else tell them about someone else...sad....
It's ok to be a child at heart, but to be adults when needed...that's how you have fun in life....even being an adult you can still enjoy life and see life through a childs eyes...meaning..don't let life jade you too much...have some fun...
Tor
