Posts by tor1500

24

Last Week I Got A Call From An Elder I Haven't Seen In 20 Years...😳

by minimus in

jw
friends

while i was at work i got a phone call from an elder i haven't seen in decades!

he started asking me questions about my family, my ex, and told me that he heard i "was no longer in the truth".

i got a little defensive and he quickly picked up on it and assured me his call had nothing to do with checking up on me regarding the religion.

tor1500

Hi,

I kind of agree with Blondie and Orphan Cow, he calls after 20 years. It could be a variety of things...it could be true that he remembers you because you are funny and nice and those type of people you would remember. Or, he is reaching out to bring you back but the first phone call was to feel you out. He felt you were a little hesitant so he backed off....he may not be finished with you. Or, he may be seeing ttatt, too.

There are many reasons folks call you after so many years, it could be that they don't have any friends because of one reason or another they ran them away or...sometimes, folks are just running out of fools. Or he may just want to talk to someone who isn't a JW and not to be judged. OR, maybe just lonely. Hope it's just a rekindling of a nice friendship.

Tor

26

I feel like I'm losing my religion/faith

by christina1111 in

i'm a baptized jw...been baptized for 8 years...and throughout the years i've been baptized i see "hypocrisy" so to speak in the religion...when you're new and not baptized that's when the jws want to invite you to every gathering they have, they want to appear like they're your best friend...they want to help you out when needed and so forth...however, once you're baptized you go to the elders for help they don't help you....all they do is gather you around the office...have bibles in hand and so forth...they give you articles as well, instead of physically helping you out....but yet when you weren't baptized they would physically help you out and not throw scriptures and articles in your face.

also when you ask for help and so forth with the bros/sisters they want to throw the "each one must carry his/her own load" scripture at you.....but yet what happened to the scripture of taking care of widows and people who are orphans?.

it's not just one congregation...throughout the 8 years i've been baptized i've been through many kingdom halls...many towns...many states...when i was inactive for awhile i even pretended to not be baptized and just play dumb when the witnesses came to my door...they're much nicer to you when you're not baptized then when you are baptized...why is that?.

tor1500

Hi Christina,

I read all the comments and they are all trying to help you...follow your conscience...and it's ok to lose your religion, but keep your faith...If you believe in God don't let the witness experience take that away from you, if you want to, if you don't believe in God anymore, that's another story, only you can answer that.

You must ask yourself why you are there and what do you want....are you looking for the truth...Christina, hate to bust your bubble there is no truth in a building an organization or in any specific doctrine....the truth is in you, The bible leads you to the truth about you, are you unforgiving, are you quick tempered, do you judge people yet get angry when someone does the same to you...THE TRUTH IS...DO YOU NEED TO CHANGE TO BE A BETTER PERSON...the meat and potatoes of the bible is ....love God and love one another...but that's too simple of humans, we must make it more difficult then it is...stand on one foot and recite the lord's prayer backwards on one foot, yep, that's us humans...ain't happy unless we are challenged.

The truth has led me to the truth about me and how I need to straighten up some things about me, according to God, not man....you will find the org. makes some good points but then you'll see where they make no sense at all and it's only their propaganda...That's where you have to be discerning...I started to see different things even before I got baptized but, I wanted to learn the bible and I did, but I learned it according to the spirit of which it is written...The org. constantly re-writes their bible to fit in words like governing body, body or elders, just rewriting to fit themselves into the picture. Then they tell us that Jesus was talking to all regarding the door to door, but since the org. likes to divide and conquer, certain scriptures apply to this group and certain scriptures apply to that group...phooey....when Jesus or was it Paul sent out the 70, these were supposedly the anointed, so us sheeps ain't gotta go because this scripture wasn't for the sheep, if read in the context.....

Trust your conscience, you see and feel something, then acknowledge it, don't stick your head in the sand and hope it get's better because it won't not unless you put in your slip for full time ministry, and you go out in service more, then they'll love bomb you again, especially after your name is announced as so & so will now be a full time pioneer, oh, they will clap, and then after the meeting, they will be all over you again, you will be included in pioneer stuff, like a secret society, then depending on your personality, you'll start looking down on folks who were once like you....or maybe you won't. But if you want to be loved again...go on put in your pioneer slip, full time slip, no half stepping with the aux. They will be all over you but not for long because you only aux. Yep, if you want them to really pull out the red carpet go for full time...but just remember, that will get old too...the publishers will talk about you too, if you become a pioneer, look at her, she just starting coming to the meetings and out in service now she is a full time pioneer, haters...you will never please the friends, but if that's the type of person you are that is a crowd pleaser and needs validation all the time, for any little thing...then stay a witness..I'm not saying all this to put you down I'm trying to help you help yourself, to find your motives.

I've so outgrown being a witness, I feel my calling is more than just knocking on doors, most of my time is encouraging the congregation, because some of them are so down and out...so for now, I have this delusion that some of them need me, because I'm easy to talk to and don't judge...but again, I feel I have a different calling....I want to leave but yet stay, because I have made some nice conditional friends....for now....if I leave I will miss them but since they were only my friends because I was a witness...to be honest....no lost...I'll be sad, but I did keep my friends that are not witnesses...

Lots of luck on finding your path...as someone said, this site in avail. 24/7....It has helped me in so many ways, I'm not that great of a writer as some are on here, I'm not to phlylosophical as some are here....I'm just say what I say....can't even spell the word...phly....LOL...Again, this is a great site for venting, even if you can't leave the org. right now, you see things, and sometimes you think you are crazy or spiritually weak, this site helps.

Tor (again)

26

I feel like I'm losing my religion/faith

by christina1111 in

i'm a baptized jw...been baptized for 8 years...and throughout the years i've been baptized i see "hypocrisy" so to speak in the religion...when you're new and not baptized that's when the jws want to invite you to every gathering they have, they want to appear like they're your best friend...they want to help you out when needed and so forth...however, once you're baptized you go to the elders for help they don't help you....all they do is gather you around the office...have bibles in hand and so forth...they give you articles as well, instead of physically helping you out....but yet when you weren't baptized they would physically help you out and not throw scriptures and articles in your face.

also when you ask for help and so forth with the bros/sisters they want to throw the "each one must carry his/her own load" scripture at you.....but yet what happened to the scripture of taking care of widows and people who are orphans?.

it's not just one congregation...throughout the 8 years i've been baptized i've been through many kingdom halls...many towns...many states...when i was inactive for awhile i even pretended to not be baptized and just play dumb when the witnesses came to my door...they're much nicer to you when you're not baptized then when you are baptized...why is that?.

tor1500

Hi Christina,

I'm new as well. I noticed the same thing. The difference is that when I got baptized I knew they were going to drop me like a hot potato. I was love bombed as well. Why, because they are recruiters and that's what they do. After you have been brought in...they move on to the next study to love bomb and do the same thing to them. If you are the type of person that has never been loved like this before from anyone, you'll think you've hit the jackpot, yep, this is the place to be.

The question to ask yourself, do you love Jehovah & Jesus ? If you love to preach the good news then don't stop going out in the ministry. I do understand about the friends....you have to look at it this way, as someone said you got some generous and compassionate folks in the org. but they are few and far between because most of them put on such a front you can't tell. Many of witnesses have no love in their homes may have never modeled love, even if they came from witness homes...they religion was served on a dish with no love. Many witnesses are depressed with some type of mental illness and that's what the org. attracts. Again, I'm not generalizing, but in my short time being a witness, this is my observation.

If you are looking to be accepted unconditionally, the hall ain't the place, if you are secure within yourself and only need God not the friends, then stay and don't worry about those fair weather friends...As I mentioned before many witness have no idea what love and friendship are. Many on this site says that the org. conditions ones to do this or that, my take is many of the things taught should have been taught from the home. If you have to have an org to show you how to love and treat people, something got lost in ones upbringing...although, the org. does prey on folks who home life is not too stable.

The elders are just men. They are not trained to do anything but listen and give you scriptures. They are not God nor shrinks, nor policemen, nor marriage counselors or child psychologist....They are not banks. If you need help financially maybe one may help you. The friends put too much stock in the elders, they are just men....they haven't gone through any type of training to help humans, all they got is scriptures and maybe a phone number of where you can get help. Most of the elders can't even run their lives...

There are other places of worship, you don't have to stay a witness and other places of worship there are wonderful people there. You may want to choose a smaller congregation of a place of worship because you have been used to being in a small congregation and many places of worship folks are coming in, in droves, they are called mega churches...they are other places of worship that are not that big but still big, again, you may not do well there, because you are used to a smaller congregation. In the bigger churches, you will get lost in the sauce and if you are not an outgoing person you will feel that you are not welcomed. That's another reason some witnesses don't like big places of worship because they would not be considered special or stand out...

Here is a question to ask yourself, why do you go to the hall, for the friends, spirituality and or peace.

Tor

9

Scientific reason why it's hard to get someone to change their beliefs.

by LisaRose in

jw
friends

many of us have had the experience of trying to share our knowledge of the dark side of the watchtower with those we love, only to have it end badly with the person getting deeply upset and refusing to believe any of it.

a new study might shed some light on the problem.

this brain study looked at what happens when someone's belief system is challenged.

tor1500

Hi Onager,

That is true. I think some people are able to change their minds if shown the facts and others whether scientific or personality wise if shown the facts you will not be able to change their minds.

There are things we all believe and by experience or observation our minds cannot be changed because what we know is true and what we've seen.

I agree the best way to try to change the mind of a witness is as someone said ask them a leading question.

For me, when someone tries to change my mind I either put up a defense or won't admit that maybe I'm wrong, as time passes I find out I might have been wrong....but didn't want the other person to know... Another point is some folks don't like to be criticized about anything...

9

Scientific reason why it's hard to get someone to change their beliefs.

by LisaRose in

jw
friends

many of us have had the experience of trying to share our knowledge of the dark side of the watchtower with those we love, only to have it end badly with the person getting deeply upset and refusing to believe any of it.

a new study might shed some light on the problem.

this brain study looked at what happens when someone's belief system is challenged.

tor1500

Hi,

I like what someone said, "Our beliefs help us make sense of the world, they may even give us comfort". I think that's the foundation of why many worship. I know a witness female that told me (I'm a witness too) that she comes to the hall for peace it's not the doctrine, but that the meetings gives her peace. I feel the same way, I have found reading the bible and finding out that God/Jesus left mankind peace...it's up to us to take it. When going through difficult situations I find I can have faith and hope that God will get me through. I think many believe every time we pray to God he will fix it...if we never go through anything in life how does that develop ones character, that each situation we go through, should make us stronger.

Many stay for different reasons...I have mine as well, for me it's the friends that I've made, oh, I know they are conditional friends, but that's who they are. I don't judge them. I'm pretty popular in my congregation, I don't pioneer or have special privi's....what makes me popular...I'm nice....and I smile...that's it...I just be myself. One of the sisters and I are close...we were talking about DF'ing...she really likes me....and confides in me things no one else knows...she has been in the truth since birth, and I have become her best friends...again, I know it's conditional, but I said, I hope I will never be DF'd but if so, no one will be able to keep me from God, ( I took the chance to say this). If I do...you will miss me...the congregation will miss me. Because whatever I did to be DF'd shouldn't stop our friendship....she was quiet, because she knows darn well I'm right...

Again, many stay for different reasons. Just like folks stay at a job they hate, some look for another job, some stay and complain about the job to anyone that listens....that's not good for the moral. Just like the org. some leave some stay and complain...like me...LOL..

The longer I'm a witness the more I try to find the common denominator that attracts folks to this religion...me I fell in...but what I do notice is many come in that have some type of mental problems....depression, hypercondriates..yes, whiners, and a host of other issues..even when we do the demos, it's always talking to someone who is going through something...I guess anyone who is well adjusted would never join the witnesses.

Many witnesses won't be able to change their mind....for one good reason...PRIDE...that pride is what makes them get defensive when you challenge them....in reality they are thinking who are you to question me, I'm in God's org. Just think when you challenge their literature compared to the bible, they think you are challenging the actual bible and the org...Once I said, no, I'm not challenging the bible, I'm challenging man....if it's not in the bible than it's not true...actually, that's my go to line every time I talk to anyone in the org...that's a safe way to say, I don't believe everything the org./ brothers say, this way you are saying but not saying...they have no come back....this statement makes them think of all the changes in the org...by that simple statement...you have planted a seed...it make take root or not...

Tor

17

The fact that different states have different laws about child sexual abuse is ludicrous it should be looked at pronto.

by smiddy in

it would go a long way in having a law that prosecutes anybody sexually abusing a child or even an adult that encompasses all states with the same laws the same consequences and the same penalties in the country.. this system that has different laws ,different penaltys , different outcomes depending in what state you live in is ludicrous.. one country should have the same judicial system no matter how many states their are in that country.. this state has mandatory laws this state doesnt and the outcome can be so demoralising for those involved ..

tor1500

Hi,

I agree, but the problem is that some folks don't see anything wrong with child sexual abuse...I hope I don't sound prejudice but as of now but rapidly changing....this is a man's world..the age of a female is of no matter to SOME males...Just look at Trump....his kids can be his greatgrands...In the way the world is today, anything goes...I watch TV late at nite and see young ladies that say they are avail. and they are 18 meaning call her because she's legal. Not I'm not saying that anything is wrong with that, because who am I to judge, but some male is calling that young lady...some will say if something bad befalls her it was her fault, she was asking for it, but at the same time she is making a living...whether we approve of it or not....

I think I brought this up in another thread, look how long it took for rape to be looked as, as not the fault of the victim...for years, it was always the fault of the female, folks thought rape victims looked a certain way but not...they were victims of sick people...so as child abuse...these young folks are victims of sick people...this is what society has not grasped yet...When you have important people who have this sick gene, the law will not deal with it as it should...right now with so much on the internet, society now has to deal with it. It's now in our faces... Child abusers come in all shapes and sizes, they can hide anywhere...in a judges robe, in a Vatican in a hall, a law enforcement person and so on...there are so many cases we know about but what about what is hidden behind closed doors...

Until sick folks are dealt with and child abuse is really looked at the way it is...a criminal offense, this will go on and on....there should be no question of how child abuse is dealt with...

A child is raped/abused (JW child)

The child tells the parent(s).

Now the parents can go to the police first then to the elders or go to the elders first then TELL them you are going to the police but just wanted to put the brothers on notice, in case the police contact them. If the elders say well, let them handle it, you can say sure, I'll give you x amount of days to report it, if not then you will do it..the brothers may threaten or reason with you about Jah's name and so on...that's when you look at them and say, no problem, you don't have to go I'll go. If it comes to the welfare of your child and reputation of a supposedly man named organization that said THEY WERE GOD'S ORG.(Man said it not God). The child should come first...In my opinion if this is not the first thought a parent should have regarding this situation....there is something wrong... I'm just saying...any sane thinking person would first think of their child and their mental state, that's first, (put it in Prayer, if you believe in God) then call the police....

Many say on this site that if you were raised in the org. it's easy for me to say go to the police but if you were raised in the truth you were instructed to always go to the brothers....If you do tell the brothers and nothing is done, something inside of you should wake up....The brothers are not trained to do anything but to carry out their duties in the hall. That's it.

Unfortunately things don't change until something happens to wealthy kids...Drugs have mostly been in the poorer areas, when rich kids starting getting into drugs ( you ask how because most of their parents are over the counter drug addicts), then it was an all out...WAR ON DRUGS, crime is mostly in heavy populated areas also sometimes due to income, but when crime hits the suburbs....then it's WAR ON CRIME...so I feel the same about child abuse...it's not being talked about...because it's mens and sometimes females little hidden secret...but if and when it hits the rich and famous....then we'll see if all if all states will have the same laws for child abuse...if someone heads is supposed to roll ...there will be a WAR ON CHILD ABUSE..

Tor

26

Does Paul preach a fundamentally different religion than Jesus?

by Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu in

controversy has arisen regarding jesus versus paul as scholars debate the different emphases and messages of jesus and paul.1 jesus preached the kingdom of heaven.

paul did not.

paul preached justification by faith alone.

tor1500

Hi,

I don't feel so, Paul preached a different religion than the JW's. Paul preached about Jesus and how we should preach about Jesus...about the resurrection. Before Paul was converted he was a killed and tortured Christians that were not like him. So one day, Jesus ask why has Paul persecuted him...then blinds him then opens his eyes....so if you were blind, who would you preach about certainly it would be the one who performed this miracle...he no doubt knew about God otherwise he wouldn't kill other Christians that did not worship like him...but he just witnessed a miracle....if you read all of the books written by Paul, he speaks of God but he is a witness for Jesus, even Jehovah said if you believe this is my son...

The JW's are so busy trying to dust off Jehovah's name, as if God needs someone to protect his name, Jesus is a second thought....

You could be right but what I see Paul preaching about is so different from the organization...

Tor

9

Is God impressed?

by LevelThePlayingField in

so a young baptized brother gets to run the microphones.

so he eagerly runs up and down the isle passing the microphone.

he's so happy because "he's being used by jehovah".

tor1500

Hi,

Nope, it just means, I know the TTATT, & constantly thinking of ways to fade...to me it doesn't matter what place of worship you go, you are never going to agree with everything...MAN says...As many have pointed out on this site, many are JW's for many different reasons, me, I just kind of fell into it....you know what they say don't look into the hole too long, you just may fall into it. What I've found out is that the truth is not a doctrine or a place of worship the truth is in us...so I guess you are correct, you can't be a thinking witness and stay, but I think so because many on this site at one time or another stop being kool-aide drinking witnesses, couldn't leave right away so they to like many others are now oxymoron's until we can escape, like so many on this board where lucky to do.

Tor

15

Childless elders need to piss off

by Steel in

anyone else think it's wrong to ask a women with small children to volunteer there time, ask if they like to come to a potential study etc etc?.

my wife just spent an entire day helping with a kingdom hall reno while i babysat.

i latter stepped out and saw half the elders having coffee because they had so many people show up, they were tripping over each other.. i also have no idea what tangible skill my wife offered or why it is important she needs to be there.. i just wish these men would man up and be men, instead of just wasting everyone's time on purpose.

tor1500

Hi,

I say ask you wife, ....Why did she volunteer all day ? Although, you didn't mind being with the kids. So Honey, Why?

You may be surprised at the answer. I don't think you meant babysitting your own children, it's that you saw something that wasn't fair. I've heard that at my hall, sisters that have kids and the elders want to know why they are not out in service....really?

So just ask her, maybe she gets her worth at the hall, maybe being a Mom is not enough....If you and her start to talk about this, it may put a fire out before it starts....You two may just need to talk and find out what's on each others mind...don't wait for family study.

Tor

9

Is God impressed?

by LevelThePlayingField in

so a young baptized brother gets to run the microphones.

so he eagerly runs up and down the isle passing the microphone.

he's so happy because "he's being used by jehovah".

tor1500

Hi,

No God is not impressed...the hours...full time pioneer, public witnessing, JW.org, and so on....these tools are only to validate us...God don't need no hours, or for you to carry a microphone....all these activities are to keep us busy and to be seen. Isn't there a scripture where it says Jehovah can use the rocks to tell of the good news...

Some folks can be a part of a congregation and just be Joe Blow Or Josephine Blow. Many witnesses would like to just be that & like myself , I do what I can when I can....I have no desire to pioneer, to add more burden to my schedule than I already have no need to hear my name from the platform for pioneering....many witnesses need approval of man, and we all know how long that last. This religion is good for folks who need to stay structured and busy, they are running away from themselves...

I've noticed many come on this site and may be studying and want to know what to expect. Many times I just want to say, if you can be a witness without validation, you will be ok in the org. If you need constant approval and attention, you won't last because the attention and approval doesn't last forever.

Witnesses have a laundry list of what they think will get them God's approval, walking around looking depressed, broke, sickly anything that's negative they think they are making points with God....When life becomes a little uncomfortable for a witness & that could be anything...standing on line for more than 5 minutes, they will look up in the sky and say, No wonder Jehovah wants to get rid of this system...like they and Jehovah are on the same page....gimme a break....

Is Jehovah impressed with us...I don't think so, isn't he going to destroy humans 2 more times....Some how he can't rid humans of sin, he tried to wash it away in the flood (didn't work), now he's supposed to burn sin away, then wait another 100 years and try to rid sin again.... I wonder if Jehovah is thinking how can I create humans with free will but that they won't sin....ummm....free will and sin...well maybe if I get rid of the Devil...that just might be the ticket, get rid of bad, then humans won't be tempted to do bad....well anyway, that's my take on how I feel God feels...

A short story, regarding Is God impressed, I am a witness, but not a kool-aide drinking witness. I was talking to a sister one day and we were talking about flowers...and how she loves them but hates artificial flowers and hates when people have artificial flowers and plants in their garden or backyard. She says it's an insult to Jehovah, I said really, if you feel that way, why don't you volunteer to help plant flowers for them. You don't know why they have artificial flowers, maybe they are disabled, or allergic, whatever. Then I said it...I had to say it...I asked do you think you just impressed God by saying that....(not one sound)....many witnesses say and do thinks because they think God is like humans...God doesn't do anything for nothing...

Tor