Posts by tor1500

43

It seems that many witnesses simply dont care about facts?

by stuckinarut2 in

i often wonder if the current crop of witnesses, especially the youth and younger ones simply don't care about facts?.

i mean for some, even with knowledge of the past scandals, misleading teachings, mistruths, etc etc, they simply don't care.

"it is the truth after all".. they are so intertwined in the operations and activities of the society, that they cant see anything outside of it.

tor1500

Hi Landy,

I'm only speaking for myself...I've never had to deal with chronic depression...what am saying is that some feel that being depressed makes points with God....we claim we serve a happy God yet, depressed...there are some who are folks that are and some that say it for show....some JW's just say it to sound religious....oh woe is me....I'm a Christian, woe is me...the world is a terrible place...and these same folks, have all the niceties of life...I have been to their homes and hear of their trips all around the world...not saying all are able to do this...but in my hall, most got it going on....depression for some is an act...some it's real...I'm not heartless, but I know a player when I see one...

Sometimes we have to look at the bigger picture....we that live in the USA are fortunate....so we take certain things that we have for granted...like a big screen TV...most folk will buy that before they buy groceries...most folks would pay their cable bill before their rent...The little gadgets we buy to make like a little easier we think everyone in the world has it....but we have all the comforts of home...& depressed...some of us are lonely, some of us are stuck with a spouse we no longer want to be with, some are stuck in a sexless marriage, some don't want to get married but they want to have sex, so they get married...some get married to the person they grew up in the congregation with because that's all they knew....and now they look up and don't even want to be with the person anymore...but being a JW, 'til death do them part...many are depressed because of the flip flops of doctrine and they do know about the ARC...

So, I'm not doing no penance...I choose not to be depressed...and others can choose too...and some can't...I'm not negating that people don't suffer from depression, I've never met one of those, I've met the ones that when I bring out the positive, I've peeped their card...without pointing a finger....Once a sister said, she felt so guilty because when she comes home from work she is so tired and doesn't have time for her little one...Now here comes me..I say, I know what you mean...but both parents have to work now a days, just to stay afloat...but whatever time you do spend try to make it count...give it your all...even if it's 15 mins...then she says but I still feel guilty...I said, I hear, you, but how guilty would you feel when your child goes to the frig. and there isn't any food for them to eat, because you want to stay home with your child...so now you don't have any money to buy food...how guilty would you feel if your child got sick and you didn't have health insurance...and she couldn't be seen by the doctor...the sister then lowered her head and said, wow, you really put things in perspective...I never thought of that...I said of course not, your boss, never comes to work but she can afford to...so you saw that, & got pulled in...You don't need to be around your child all the time and vise versa...then I said, now if you don't want to work no more. because you really want to full time ministry , just say that...

Again, I'm not putting down being depressed but I'm saying to those who are pretending to be depressed to make points with God...it won't work...as witnesses say, God sees everything...

Tor

43

It seems that many witnesses simply dont care about facts?

by stuckinarut2 in

i often wonder if the current crop of witnesses, especially the youth and younger ones simply don't care about facts?.

i mean for some, even with knowledge of the past scandals, misleading teachings, mistruths, etc etc, they simply don't care.

"it is the truth after all".. they are so intertwined in the operations and activities of the society, that they cant see anything outside of it.

tor1500

Hi,

If one cared about facts they wouldn't be a JW... Most JW's have found a place of comfort...they fit...most have chose not to fit into the world...I say chose...because they are just like the people they talk about...it's just that they don't admit so....most that work choose not to be with the other employees....just to stand out and look different...as someone I know...she says, JW's like to be contrary...

If they were honestly seeking the TRUTH, they wouldn't be there...they heard that they are coming back to earth....that's why they seem so peaceful....they ain't afraid of death...because they are coming back...that's a sense of comfort for anyone... because DEATH IS SCARY....to think you may never ever ever return...I confess, that's a scary thought, although, I wasn't around for ages....and I didn't know nothing about it...

I'm a witness, so I see and hear what keeps them there...they appreciate the new understanding...of course they know it may change...many of them say, wow there have been so many changes...isn't wonderful to belong to God's org. and even though he uses imperfect people isn't is wonderful they can admit they made a mistake...that's what I love about the org...what other religion would do that ? You really can tell that this is Jehovah's org...so there you have it folks...I'm on the inside....and this is why you can't wake them up...

Now if you go to them with an observation....they say...wait on Jehovah....I was telling a sister that there is no reason for some of the older friends to have to worry how to get home from the meetings, with so many of us that have cars..told her a story....a older sister needed a ride home...she asked this couple, they said, oh, sorry, we got rid of their car...now maybe at the time that was true...well fast forward...I was coming out of the meeting turned the corner to get my car...who do guess was getting into a car with others...yep, you guessed it the couple...

Facts don't keep anyone in the church...it's how the place they go makes them feel...many come for peace of mind because their home is kaos...some come for the company and a hug every once in a while, they may live alone...so many reasons why people stay places that don't tell the truth...

Why am I still there...I love my congregation as messed up as they are...when they talk gloom and doom I try to tell them something positive...many say they suffer from depression...I said...we all do at times we are human...but when I begin to be depressed, I think of all the blessings I have...first, I'm so called depressed about....uh? just because I can....then I think that if I'm depressed at least I'm depressed in-doors....I can open my refrig, I can lay on my bed...I have heat and hot water...I have a job...TV, cable, cellphone...nice clothes...good health most of the time...health insurance....car...must I go on....How dare I look God in the face and be depressed...

Tor

15

God’s name (Jehovah) is so ambiguous to the extent of even supporting The Theory of Evolution!

by venus in

we have been taught that the name jehovah means “he causes to become.” it is interpreted that he causes himself to become whatever needed to accomplish his will—as happened in the case israelites to whom he “caused himself to become” a savior leading them from slavery in egypt.. but there is a problem with this definition.

nobody would use the phrase “cause to become” with regard to himself.

one may say: “i helped him,” (but he won’t say: “i caused myself to become a helper to him.”) “causing myself to become a helper to another person” obviously implies helping nature comes with effort as though it is not in my nature.

tor1500

Hi,

God doesn't have a name...after we are resurrected then maybe he'll tell us... (that's if this story is true).

Why does God have to have a name....doesn't Jesus say there are so many things to tell us, but not now...

God says he causes to become.....what he is saying...I can do whatever I want to do...I'm God, darn it...

Jehovah Witnesses strive so hard to be different so much that they bite off more than they can chew....they have gone beyond the scriptures....there are going to be so many new lights...but it's going to be little by little...they can no longer support their doctrine...people that are not witnesses are poking holes in the JW doctrine...Notice the question from readers...don't think so, the org. is cleaning up some of their misinterpreted doctrines....oh they explain it...but they are noticing that people that are not witnesses can read and are challenging their doctrine...

JW 's use the name Jehovah just to be different to be in the in crowd with God....see we in with God, because we know his name....NOT....

Listen, who cares what God's name is...if he can help me through trouble...he will bring me back to life ....as far as I'm concerned...if he can do these things....he's alright with me...for those who still believe in God, this is what I think...those that don't that's your choice....no judging here...

I have read about evolution and it has it's points but so does the Bible....

No matter what you believe....we are our brothers keeper...

Tor

16

EU court upholds an employer's right to ban religious symbols

by careful in

first i should say that i do not like islam for multiple reasons, not the least of which is the moslem treatment of women.

still, the free exercise of anyone's peaceful observance of their religion, including moslems, trumps my personal preferences.

also, living in america, i evidently enjoy a greater degree of religious liberty than i see in recent years in continental europe, something that continues to baffle me.. today the european court of justice, the same group that has stood up for the rights of jws, has decreed that it is ok for employers to ban the wearing of religious symbols among employees.

tor1500

Hi,

I think that you should be able to wear what you want according to your culture....as long as you don't infringe on others...someone said, they like the difference in cultures, I agree...

I'm a witness...I don't wear anything that identifies me as one....I will not wear a pin that say JW.org...being a JW isn't a badge of honor as many witnesses believe...I show by my conduct who I am...I don't want anyone to avoid me because I'm a witness... when I speak with folks it's just about what is fair and right...then they ask me, why are you so even tempered, it seems nothing bothers you...and so on....I share with them why I'm at peace....viola, a couple of minutes I can add to my REPORT CARD TO GOD...LOL...LOL... might even place some literature....say I'm a witness but I'm not a fanatical one...if you like what I say, and want to talk, I'm avail. If you don't like what I say....then I don't worry about it....but when they are interested in the org....I'm very honest....I tell them ..we are imperfect people so don't come to the hall, and think we walk water....we are human,and do messed up stuff just like everyone else...I explain, the love bombing then the DF'ing..and so on, I lay it all out...then it's up to them...see what the JW's do they reel you in without telling you the truth, then they love bomb you then you're so deep in...and you see how they really are....then you are stuck...you have to be a pretty strong person to leave...depending if you care if they care....

Side point...someone said, the NYT picked up this story....so why haven't they picked up the story of child abuse in the org...amazing.....they care more about the outer person more than the lives of children...how is it that gets printed but the many stories of child abuse....too many to ignore....the media is all connected...NYT knows about the ARC....everything is being exposed except the org...

So the question is who is protecting the org...

Tor

95

Who can explain why the "Two Witness" rule is wrong, in the simplest term?

by DATA-DOG in

with all the legalese being tossed around, and the expert manipulation on the part of the wtbts, who can explain why the "two witness" is being perverted by the wtbts?

i don't care if you're a bible believer and want to approach this from a biblical standpoint, or if you simply use logic and reason.

how would you explain this subject to a j-dub, or even a non-dub?.

tor1500

Hi LonghairGal,

Exactly, I brought that out earlier, what fool would bring another person to witness them do something wrong...

Didn't Jesus say he came to put an end to the law....and I do remember the ARC asking if the JW's follow the NT or the OT, I think the reply was NT...so if Jesus came to put an end to the law...Deut. is null and void...

What Jesus is saying...your old credit card has expired....yep, you made a lot of bad and good purchases...but I came to pay your credit card in full...and use this new credit card...old one no good...

The 2 witness rule is a weak defense...they think they are saying something...but, if we are in the NT...the OT stuff don't apply anymore...

In the words of Johnny Cochran...if it don't apply let it fly....

Tor

11

Scriptures that now have such a different meaning?!

by stuckinarut2 in

it struck me that so many of the scriptures that the society uses to condemn others, can actually apply to them!.

when we read them without the application that the society enforces, they can make you have that "ah-ha!

" moment.... for instance, how about:.

tor1500

Hi Stuckinarut2,

So funny you say that....I've always thought it...the scriptures they use applies to them...that's why they know it so well...

The illustration of the system in the WT...the man and the clay feet, that's the org.. with this ARC thing the feet of clay are breaking up...

The other scripture that comes to mind is that ...they do into widows homes and make them worse then they were...

What about the one that says, if someone is in need don't just wish them well...help them....

I could go on....Oh and one more...the one where the people are tossed to and fro like the waves (doctrine)

one day it's this truth then the next, another truth to replace the other truth that they replaced the other truth...

The org. is doing just what they state others are doing...and they know what they are doing so well...because they do it too...

Tor

9

Catching up on the A.R.C.

by The Searcher in

i haven't been here for several days, so apologies if similar comments have been posted regarding messrs spinks' & o'brien's "spiritual & scriptural" replies to the australian royal commission last week.. perhaps this line of questioning by mr. stewart could have helped exposed the org's corruption of the "two witness" rule:.

mr stewart: mr. spinks, does the jehovah's witnesses' leadership base their "two witness" rule solely on the bible?.

mr. spinks: yes.

tor1500

Hi,

I am not up on all the ARC stuff. at one time I used to think....get it over with....it's taking too long...but, now that I think of it...The GB's are crapping in their pants...don't let their calmness fool you...JW's are used to being in court fighting for rights...and to be honest, they have implemented laws that in the long run should have been addressed...they go to court for the rights of the org....ok, that's ok....but this is different...they are being accused...they are not fighting for any rights...

This is serious business....and the org. knows it....they are in the big office trying to wiggle out of it...but they can't....they can pay out all they want...this is a different fight for the JW's...it's not about their rights it's about the congregation rights and the brothers are supposed to protect us....so they should tell the congregation to go to the authorities....then go to the brothers .....not the other way around...

I think the GB's are not getting any sleep, because they are waiting on God, and he just sitting there...saying...I never told you that you JW's are my mouth piece and you want to protect my name...I don't need no humans to protect my name...you went around bashing other religions...if you are waiting for me (Jehovah) to put words in your mouth....I don't think so....

The longer this goes on the more they will sweat the more they will have to put out fires and soon the congregations will know...but no matter what, many will stay....

Tor

47

What do you think the Australian Government will do?

by Richard Oliver in

i am not wanting to start a fight.

i just want to hear what people think.

honestly and realistically, what do you think the australian government will do, with watchtower, when they receive the full arc report?.

tor1500

Hi Landy,

Exactly, only place I see stuff about the JW's is on XJW sites...

I live in the USA, we advertise any and everything...knives that cut through shoes...(bet you don't have one...LOL). Their on the channel, no they are on this channel, it's coming on this time, no, it's central time, they cancelled it...& so on.... It's not big news in Australia, other wise the witnesses would be leaving in droves and warning us other JW's...most likely folks don't even know there in their own home town...JW's are only a big deal to JW's and xJW's...oh and people who are associated with them and or know them....or others who are just misfits of society, those are the curious ones...that's basically who JW's attract to...a little unstable...a little depressed, a little this or that. Some are functional unstable folks just barely making it...then there are the full fledge ones...that's another thread...

The best that may come out of this is some eyes will be opened..and some prides will be swallowed....but it'll go down just like the Catholics...

If there is a God, he'll take the org. down bit by bit just like the Catholics...again, if there is a God, he'll make them eat crow....not non of these sites or anything else...if we really pay attention....we can see it a happening...maybe not the way we want it to...because there are some really innocent folks in the JW's...they have to be let down easy....maybe I'm hoping but I see little bits and pieces of info. being leaked and the friends do know..I speak with them, some even say, oh, that's why the org. is begging for money...not everybody is drinking the koolaide but stay for whatever their reasons maybe...don't sleep on the friends...they just can't YOU...what they know because they saw what happened to YOU....

I think some would like to see the org. change some of their policies... and would most likely return...for the most part...they should just teach the gospel...and stay out of folks business...run the org...but don't try to run folk's lives...Leave us accountable to our own choices...gives us what you think God's guidelines may be...then let us make our own decision without penalty....BASICALLY...STOP CONTROLLING...AND DELIVER THE MESSAGE...AND STOP PREDICTING...

We all watch Law and Order...it only takes a hour for them to get their man...next thing is the trial, then, sentencing...I'm not saying the ARC should only take a hour...but this is a clear cut case...It won't take a hour to find the perp...he or her is in the congregation....what's the stalling about....because pedophile isn't looked as, as it needs to be addressed...we have a president that is married to a women half his age...when you go on sites for dating they say they are at least 18....and their are folks out there that will bite...The mind set of the world still regarding child abuse...IT WAS THE VICTIMS FAULT...she or he was so attractive ....all the while this is a sick person....Here is another approach...why not call the place for mental illness...call somebody but don't sweep it under the rug...

I think more folks will be aware and not so smug....but with all they have....it's open and closed....but I smell a rat..

Tor

36

What is the basis for advising “Don’t pursue higher studies”?

by venus in

two elders who visited my friend last week encouraged her not to pursue higher studies.

it seems they are dishing out the same old stuff: “the end is imminent, and this is the time to do more in the service; hence don’t waste your resources on higher studies.”.

i wonder whether there was some official communiqué (something that is sent out recently like letter to the elders, or kingdom ministry article …).

tor1500

Hi LongHairGal,

As you say they preach poverty to others but they don't take the same advice...My time with the witnesses just show me they are kids dressed up in adult clothing....always whinning...

If you are the type of person who lives off little or nothing monthly, they love it...but will they simplify their life...no way...

I think the general opinion here is witnesses say one thing and do another....

Also, many of the sisters are starting to say they aren't listening to the brothers no more. I think they are beginning to see they don't know what they are doing...2 sisters told me they ain't telling the brothers nothing...

Wonder if that'll be a trend....

Do you think the org. is slowing leaking to be exposed ?

Tor

95

Who can explain why the "Two Witness" rule is wrong, in the simplest term?

by DATA-DOG in

with all the legalese being tossed around, and the expert manipulation on the part of the wtbts, who can explain why the "two witness" is being perverted by the wtbts?

i don't care if you're a bible believer and want to approach this from a biblical standpoint, or if you simply use logic and reason.

how would you explain this subject to a j-dub, or even a non-dub?.

tor1500

Hi,

What is the debate....CALL THE POLICE...

As usual I have a story...two sisters I know ok make that 3 sisters I know...experienced their child being molested...where did they go....to the brothers...at the time, I was new...so I just assumed they called the police...come to find out they are still so angry (yet still come to the meetings, etc). but angry because the brothers to this day did not do anything....it struck me strange that the brothers...I thought, what about the police...one sister told me her story....if I were her, I wouldn't have gone to the authorities either...her story was a little fishy...plus she has issues with all brothers...her hubby was no good...he was a brother too...many of the friends leave their kids with other friends, thinking it's ok...once, I was going home from a meeting...saw one of he young ones and asked where are your parent and your bros. and sisters...he said, he was the only one that came to the meeting....he lives within walking distance..anyway, I said, I'll take him home but told him to call home to let them know I was bringing him...he called no answer...and he had no cell phone either...then he had no key, we went by his house, no answer...so I took him for something to eat just to eat up time...we talked...nice young man... so I said, lets go back to your house...I think it's time...I dropped him off, & it took a long time for his family to let him in the house...so what am I saying here...many of the friends, leave their children to the friends...the parents are so darn tired, they give them up for just a chance to breathe...

Again, I'm in the hall, I see the good the bad and the ugly...yes, most of the parents keep a close look out, but parents do get tired sometimes and don't make the right choices...

Again, we know there is child abuse in the org...what's ever in the world is in places of worship...the same folks outside the church are the same folks in the church....ain't no where safe...

But again...forget about all this legal stuff....CALL THE POLICE...DARN IT...We are dancing all over the problem...child abuse is wrong...we all know that...it's a crime we all know that...

Call the police.

Tor