I recently married my best friend of 32 years. She is a life-long JW and once an active pioneer, I am a 'worldly' person through-and-through, always will be. We married because it was the only way we could find a way of staying together while giving her a path back to her religion ultimately, which she does not want to (or cannot) let go of. We have been close friends for 32 years, together as a couple for 2 years and now married for 2 months (happily). There has never been any pressure on me to become a JW from her - a hope, yes, but pressure or even mentioning it more than an unobtainable ideal, no (she knows me well - would never happen). She's going to make a confession about or relationship and it's past + details quite soon and she's prepared to be DF'd (she had once, years ago though has been in 'good standing' for many, many years since). She does believe the religion is true (to my consternation), she does see her initial getting together with me as a sin that she engaged in in a moment or phase of weakness that quickly became an undeniably truly loving relationship but also cannot deny and would not deny that we love each other so very much and wants to be with me just as she wants to serve Jehovah (as she would say it, I expect). By marrying me she did the best that was possible to straighten the situation to a degree on both counts - dedication to me but also no longer being 'immoral' by having physical relations with someone she is not married to. I'd very much like to know what any former (or present) elder among you would think of this in a committee, if one were formed, or of lesser options. Also curious about the possibility of her being a 'marked individual' which seems to lie between a reprimand and DFing - she knew little of that procedure, never heard the term, but I have read the elder's handbook many times so was aware of such a thing, especially as concerned dating an unbeliever - seems a sort of 'soft' DFing for a time. But, as I've said, we are not 'dating' at this point, we're properly and legally married and cannot be told to divorce, obviously. It's a peculiar situation and one that doesn't come up in 'Shepherding the Flock' explicitly, it's without precedent as handbooks are concerned. If this upcoming confession were the case, in your previous (or current) role as an elder, how would you be likely handle it - what would you think? She IS repentant, it HAS bothered her greatly, but was unwilling to give up our love for each other - she will tell it as it is when she willingly confesses, honestly. I know this is nuanced and what to do is based on her show of repentance but if it's in any way possible to speculate, without actually hearing her in person, I do wonder generally what would be thought or possible and expected. Appreciate your experience and input.
Thank you
doasthouwilt
JoinedPosts by doasthouwilt
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Former Elders Please - Disbeliever recently married to a JW
by doasthouwilt ini recently married my best friend of 32 years.
she is a life-long jw and once an active pioneer, i am a 'worldly' person through-and-through, always will be.
we married because it was the only way we could find a way of staying together while giving her a path back to her religion ultimately, which she does not want to (or cannot) let go of.
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doasthouwilt
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Miniimizing 'Punishment' - marrying a non-JW
by doasthouwilt ini’d like to marry my best friend of 30+ years, turned ‘secret’ girlfriend of 1 ½ years who is a jehovah’s witness, born into it, baptized and an active ‘pioneer’.
our marriage would happen prior to letting any of her jw friends and cohorts know that we are together.
once married she may simply come forward and ‘admit’ or we may wait until it’s found out – one way or the other, the reason for this marriage is not customary – i am hoping that by doing so she can avoid being ‘marked’ or possibly ‘disfellowshipped’ once our relationship is no longer a secret and due to our already being married at that point, there can be no notion from society elders about her ending the relationship.
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doasthouwilt
DesirousOfChange - can you tell me which chapter and verse in Psalms says to confess your sins to Jehovah alone?
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Miniimizing 'Punishment' - marrying a non-JW
by doasthouwilt ini’d like to marry my best friend of 30+ years, turned ‘secret’ girlfriend of 1 ½ years who is a jehovah’s witness, born into it, baptized and an active ‘pioneer’.
our marriage would happen prior to letting any of her jw friends and cohorts know that we are together.
once married she may simply come forward and ‘admit’ or we may wait until it’s found out – one way or the other, the reason for this marriage is not customary – i am hoping that by doing so she can avoid being ‘marked’ or possibly ‘disfellowshipped’ once our relationship is no longer a secret and due to our already being married at that point, there can be no notion from society elders about her ending the relationship.
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doasthouwilt
MeanMrMustard + anyone else who may have felt even slightly trolled . . .
That honestly isn't what I came here for or at all intend(ed) to do. I think some of my disposition about this and the honest facts of the story may seem ourageous and even be upsetting to some, especially anyone truly practicing as a JW, but that's not intentional, just the truth of the matter. It's part of why I didn't want to get into too many details about it - I know some discussion about it couldn't be avoided, but I was after answers to my question, solely. Sorry if anyone felt trolled! -
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Miniimizing 'Punishment' - marrying a non-JW
by doasthouwilt ini’d like to marry my best friend of 30+ years, turned ‘secret’ girlfriend of 1 ½ years who is a jehovah’s witness, born into it, baptized and an active ‘pioneer’.
our marriage would happen prior to letting any of her jw friends and cohorts know that we are together.
once married she may simply come forward and ‘admit’ or we may wait until it’s found out – one way or the other, the reason for this marriage is not customary – i am hoping that by doing so she can avoid being ‘marked’ or possibly ‘disfellowshipped’ once our relationship is no longer a secret and due to our already being married at that point, there can be no notion from society elders about her ending the relationship.
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doasthouwilt
I don't see how trolling has anything to do with my posting or anything to do with her being torn, at least by the standard definition. I'm not here to rile people up, I'm here because I have a genuine question that I had yet to put to any JWs or ex-JWs and wanted that input. I didn't ask because I had any specific answer I wanted to hear, I asked to hear anything and everything people may say about it so I could take that to mind and carry on in whatever way I decide. I'm glad I did, I've had largely useful input! Thanks to all who have done so.
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Miniimizing 'Punishment' - marrying a non-JW
by doasthouwilt ini’d like to marry my best friend of 30+ years, turned ‘secret’ girlfriend of 1 ½ years who is a jehovah’s witness, born into it, baptized and an active ‘pioneer’.
our marriage would happen prior to letting any of her jw friends and cohorts know that we are together.
once married she may simply come forward and ‘admit’ or we may wait until it’s found out – one way or the other, the reason for this marriage is not customary – i am hoping that by doing so she can avoid being ‘marked’ or possibly ‘disfellowshipped’ once our relationship is no longer a secret and due to our already being married at that point, there can be no notion from society elders about her ending the relationship.
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doasthouwilt
MeanMrMustard,
Yes, I did think I should add that, to paint a better picture.
You misunderstood what I meant by 'for reasons unrelated'. The reason she was DF'd was in no way related to the moving in with her BF - that move-in happened afterward, she was DF'd for a vice.
Her last marriage lasted just shy of 30 years (far more than 4) and she's been interested in no one else since, which has been nearly a decade, until I came along and decided it was high-time that I did get together with one of the dearest and closest people to me - that's a reality we share and very much agree on. This ONE difference (being discussed here) is the only one we have that keeps this from being entirely excellent, you couldn't know the dynamic unless you were either myself or her, but trust that neither of us are unwise, though I do appreciate the concern and hasty conclusion that may often be the case - not so here.
No, she was specifically scared back into it. I have, through the years, talked to her about it, about why she persists in it. Fear is a giant factor. "Human Capital" (which by I guess you mean friends / acquaintances?) has nothing to do with it as she's not been without those 'assets' from all fronts (JW's or otherwise) in all the years I've known her - not in the least, she is incredibly social and surrounded.
I would like if she would be more true to her inherent personality which is so unlike the JW teachings - she truly IS a 'naughty', worldly girl, and excels at it but, she's backed into a corner, has been since birth - she does, I'm sure, like Diogenesister said, compartmentalize to try to maintain both her true character and her imposed 'beliefs'. I would like more than anything if she would leave the damaging situation she was born into, but so long as that's not the case, I don't mind seeing what else can be done and I'm a tough person, not the sort that can't deal with this sort of thing, not at all.
This is why my original post had the disclaimer, " I’m not looking so much for advice on if I should do this or not or the situation in general – I have those aspects already sorted." -
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Miniimizing 'Punishment' - marrying a non-JW
by doasthouwilt ini’d like to marry my best friend of 30+ years, turned ‘secret’ girlfriend of 1 ½ years who is a jehovah’s witness, born into it, baptized and an active ‘pioneer’.
our marriage would happen prior to letting any of her jw friends and cohorts know that we are together.
once married she may simply come forward and ‘admit’ or we may wait until it’s found out – one way or the other, the reason for this marriage is not customary – i am hoping that by doing so she can avoid being ‘marked’ or possibly ‘disfellowshipped’ once our relationship is no longer a secret and due to our already being married at that point, there can be no notion from society elders about her ending the relationship.
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doasthouwilt
I should add that she had been disfellowshipped* once many years ago, for reasons unrelated to being unequally yoked, sex or the like. She moved in with her BF of the time shortly thereafter and went on to marry him - they had a child and were together for many years. Sometime between the marriage and subsequent divorce she decided she was repentant and was refellowshipped (?). I believe she was scared back into it due to 9/11, or so a mutual friend told me - I had little communication with her for a few years which happened to be during that time.
This fact is part of what makes me think that marrying her does offer some hope as, if she's not going to end it between us and not going to skip out on the society, there is middle ground where, though she'll face some sort of scolding perhaps DF'ing, we would end up together openly while maintaining an ability for her to rejoin at a later and more timely moment in her life (though she does think the world is coming to an end any moment now - of course). Someone earlier said that she'd be frowned upon for marrying a disbeliever and that if that person didn't then show interest in joining the, um, flock, that she'd bear some brunt of her mates disinterest. That did not happen in the case of her and her ex-husband. He was / is an atheist, happy in that conclusion and unable to be swayed. Despite this, her JW friends were friends of them both once she was reinstated. Perhaps the people at her KH are just not the best at being JW's or perhaps they're truly kind - I don't know how much this varies hall to hall.
It's probably evident that I have no respect for this society, I won't expound on that as it's beside the point, but I DO care about her, do respect her and do not want her to come to harm at their hands, much less have me be part of the reason. Much as I'd jump for joy if it were the case, I can't simply tell her to forsake what she's bought into (or was scared into) and 'truly believes' to one degree or another then have it happen, so I'm looking for damage control and if we're to have both scenarios in any way at all, I can't think of another possible way of softening the blow & maintaining the relationship beside marriage.
* I find it none too ironic that spellcheck suggests "horsewhipped" for "disfellowshipped" -
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Miniimizing 'Punishment' - marrying a non-JW
by doasthouwilt ini’d like to marry my best friend of 30+ years, turned ‘secret’ girlfriend of 1 ½ years who is a jehovah’s witness, born into it, baptized and an active ‘pioneer’.
our marriage would happen prior to letting any of her jw friends and cohorts know that we are together.
once married she may simply come forward and ‘admit’ or we may wait until it’s found out – one way or the other, the reason for this marriage is not customary – i am hoping that by doing so she can avoid being ‘marked’ or possibly ‘disfellowshipped’ once our relationship is no longer a secret and due to our already being married at that point, there can be no notion from society elders about her ending the relationship.
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doasthouwilt
Stephane - I'm not sure that comparing a propensity toward violence to one toward a loving relationship and all it entails is apt, but I understand the two things you are mentioning, and since I don't see her admitting to #1 entirely (though it is more the case, I would guess), there are nuances to #2:
She does find value in our relationship and all it entails and that it's lasting / ongoing - it is GOOD she's said and once even admitted that it was RIGHT & CORRECT. Our shared love is, I'm quite sure, to both of us, a large and important part of our 'values' and willfully breaking with her values doesn't have to be exclusively one or the opposing other, however, the former is natural and a matter of self-discovery while the latter was imposed on her from the beginning of her life and is driven by coercion and thug-like threats, much as she may or may not recognize that (just yet, I like to hope). You can feel allegiance to both and it WOULD make one torn, but I believe that the 'values' that are truly and wholly your own are the ones you don't need to be instructed to respect and her personality would suggest the same - she really is no good at abiding by the other, imposed 'values' - our relationship is one of several things that would be a problem in her behavior, if discovered, and she's quite willing to ignore the other 'disobedient' things she does, mainly, I'd say, as those are much easier to hide in the long-run. So, she's willfully breaking her "own" values in either case, though I hope those she comes by on her own are the ones that matter most of the two. -
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Miniimizing 'Punishment' - marrying a non-JW
by doasthouwilt ini’d like to marry my best friend of 30+ years, turned ‘secret’ girlfriend of 1 ½ years who is a jehovah’s witness, born into it, baptized and an active ‘pioneer’.
our marriage would happen prior to letting any of her jw friends and cohorts know that we are together.
once married she may simply come forward and ‘admit’ or we may wait until it’s found out – one way or the other, the reason for this marriage is not customary – i am hoping that by doing so she can avoid being ‘marked’ or possibly ‘disfellowshipped’ once our relationship is no longer a secret and due to our already being married at that point, there can be no notion from society elders about her ending the relationship.
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doasthouwilt
Thanks to everyone who has replied so far, I have a busy work day ahead so will have little time to reply for a while yet, but there's a lot here to consider - much of which I already have considered and some that sheds new light. I will have more to say and ask. Much appreciated!
One quick reply . . . .
BluesBrother - well, we are not engaged, we never will be, we will elope on a moment's notice once we get a license in our state to do so. You are right that she's lying to her friends and ministers by not letting on but she would be, conversely, lying to herself by disallowing her natural feelings, inclinations and desires and that can't lead to a happy life either. This system she was born into creates a high likelihood of unhappiness - it almost insures some level of lifelong misery. It functions like a trap and you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. You are right that there's something very wrong about it - indeed! -
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Miniimizing 'Punishment' - marrying a non-JW
by doasthouwilt ini’d like to marry my best friend of 30+ years, turned ‘secret’ girlfriend of 1 ½ years who is a jehovah’s witness, born into it, baptized and an active ‘pioneer’.
our marriage would happen prior to letting any of her jw friends and cohorts know that we are together.
once married she may simply come forward and ‘admit’ or we may wait until it’s found out – one way or the other, the reason for this marriage is not customary – i am hoping that by doing so she can avoid being ‘marked’ or possibly ‘disfellowshipped’ once our relationship is no longer a secret and due to our already being married at that point, there can be no notion from society elders about her ending the relationship.
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doasthouwilt
Diogenesister - Thanks, you bring something up that I hadn't considered and I am looking for just such insights so I can be better prepared for what may be ahead. While I do know that the role of the husband is to be 'head of the household' I hadn't thought about this applying to a disbelieving husband, I never considered going along and answering questions as the husband / the 'head' - I fully expect she's free to speak-up no matter (don't know how far this 'head' notion goes) but, is it possible that I can simply defer them to myself, asserting my husbandly 'authority'?? I'll be the first to say I'm looking for LOOPHOLES! I certainly would go along if my position as husband will have some clout, when that time comes.
As for kids - we're now mostly too old, at least for it to be wise, and I've never wanted kids no matter. She has an IUD as well - chances of a kid are nearly 0. But, just to fill in the pic a bit more, she DOES have a teenage son from her 1st marriage (I was her best man at that wedding!) who was raised JW. Her son (a fantastic, likable kid) is another tricky part of this scenario. She's torn about marrying me in as much as she would have to let him know and she, directly or not, instructed him that to be in a relationship such as our own isn't 'right'. Her son and I get along well, with lots in common, and she's even said I'd make a fantastic stepfather. I would love to have that opportunity, I would. I love him as well. To be honest, I believe he knows about us anyway. I live at her place mostly on the days / nights when he is not there, but he does encounter me often enough - I even stay over once every couple of weeks on a night when he is at her place, but we go to bed well after he does and on non-school days I have to get up quite early to clear out. I SO wish he did know, as would be normal, and that the troubles would be minimal. I believe he'd be glad about it.
You're quite right - she WILL struggle, but I believe she's up to it. I asked her once if she thought our being together and all it entailed was expressly GOOD - she said it was. I then asked her if it were possible that something could be good but not be RIGHT, this she didn't answer in words, though I could see on her face what the answer was. She'll struggle, but I don't think she's willing to accept being unnecessarily ostracized for something good. I'm trying like mad to make this work, I think she respects that and I think knows, intrinsically, that a thing can be GOOD despite any popular or non-popular 'concept' of RIGHT. I, of course, know it's BOTH. -
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Miniimizing 'Punishment' - marrying a non-JW
by doasthouwilt ini’d like to marry my best friend of 30+ years, turned ‘secret’ girlfriend of 1 ½ years who is a jehovah’s witness, born into it, baptized and an active ‘pioneer’.
our marriage would happen prior to letting any of her jw friends and cohorts know that we are together.
once married she may simply come forward and ‘admit’ or we may wait until it’s found out – one way or the other, the reason for this marriage is not customary – i am hoping that by doing so she can avoid being ‘marked’ or possibly ‘disfellowshipped’ once our relationship is no longer a secret and due to our already being married at that point, there can be no notion from society elders about her ending the relationship.
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doasthouwilt
Hoser - I'm assuming by "love-bombed" you mean set on as a potential new convo by means of showing "love" (correct me if I'm wrong, but that certainly is a scenario I know may exist). Thing is, twofold - the elders will NEVER meet me and I may choose to stay clear of her JW cohorts / friends to keep my need for incredulity at a minimum (I'd RATHER know some of them, but if it comes to that sort of thing and they persist, they will not have the pleasure). It's hard to explain without knowing me personally, but I'm not a "sell", never will be - the phrase "talking to a wall" doesn't go far enough. I will be polite, but if the topic turns to that they will get 0 response - for all else, I'll be willing, friendly and truly likable - this will be evident within a couple sentences.