I suspect there are 10s if not 100s of thousands of JWs in exactly the same position - they know it's all bunkum but it's the only life they know. It would be horrifically daunting to build a new life from scratch, so why not just stick around with the life you know and do as little damage to others (token field service, no contributions, no congregational responsibilities) as you can?
FFGhost
JoinedPosts by FFGhost
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33
Would you leave the Watchtower if you woke up at age 80 plus, or just stay in for the rest of your life.
by pistolpete inso yesterday while i was doing some work for a customer, i noticed the wt mags on the sofa.
and i asked the elderly man if he was a jehovah witness?.
he said that he and his wife and all his children were raised in the religion, but only he and his wife attend the meetings or zoom.
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55
Ban on Independent Meetings
by lssjr insource - march 2021 announcements - - https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5085868283920384/2021-march-147-english-german-announcements-reminders.
this is a sobering reminder of what happened some 40 years ago when raymond franz and others were literally kicked out from the jehovah's witnesses for having pre-arranged private spiritual discussions.lesson: paragraph 7 is another example of the i and t in dr. steven hassan's bite model of the 21st century cult - information and thought control at its best!!!!
"my gosh, there must be a lot of independent meetings these days.
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FFGhost
Oh, and I forgot the even more indescribably wackadoodly bizarre image of people dressing up as if they were to attend a corporate board meeting.....to watch TV in their own home.
Oh, and the lady has a Bible in her lap...so she can follow along in her own copy of the Bible....even though the quoted text from the verse they are dithering about will appear on the screen....cuz somehow it's more holy if you your fingers touch the Holy Bible....
These images of idealized JW life have always been unrealistic. Now they are painfully so.
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55
Ban on Independent Meetings
by lssjr insource - march 2021 announcements - - https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5085868283920384/2021-march-147-english-german-announcements-reminders.
this is a sobering reminder of what happened some 40 years ago when raymond franz and others were literally kicked out from the jehovah's witnesses for having pre-arranged private spiritual discussions.lesson: paragraph 7 is another example of the i and t in dr. steven hassan's bite model of the 21st century cult - information and thought control at its best!!!!
"my gosh, there must be a lot of independent meetings these days.
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FFGhost
Good lawd-amighty, where is that photo from in R&R's post? It has all the hallmarks of being a legit WT publication photo.
Their photos always model "ideal" JW behavior.
They want people to clap....for a broadcast....that they saw on TV....sitting in their living room....with a total of 3 people there to hear it?
And the people you are clapping for....can't hear you....don't know you....don't know you exist....?
Every day, you say, "they can't get any nuttier".....and every day they prove you wrong.....
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55
Ban on Independent Meetings
by lssjr insource - march 2021 announcements - - https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5085868283920384/2021-march-147-english-german-announcements-reminders.
this is a sobering reminder of what happened some 40 years ago when raymond franz and others were literally kicked out from the jehovah's witnesses for having pre-arranged private spiritual discussions.lesson: paragraph 7 is another example of the i and t in dr. steven hassan's bite model of the 21st century cult - information and thought control at its best!!!!
"my gosh, there must be a lot of independent meetings these days.
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FFGhost
Wow - there's a lot going in in just this one sentence:
While the individuals organizing and participating in such meetings are likely well-intentioned, there is no provision for such arrangements.
likely well-intentioned
Just wow. The passive-aggressive negativity positively gushes out of this.
"Likely well intentioned"?
Whatever happened to "love believes all things, hopes all things, etc. etc." Thinking the best of our brothers?
"LIKELY"???
As in, "yeah, we're pretty sure there's a good number of you guys out there doing this for, I dunno, some bad reason".
There is no provision for such arrangements
Who the cluck cares?
There's no "provision" for my eating avocado toast on Sunday mornings. So should I stop?
Are JWs only supposed to do things for which there are "provisions"?
The sheer, utter hubris and pomposity of these proclamations - sheesh.
As I noted, I really shouldn't be surprised by now, but still....holy crap.
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137
Masks Are Coming Off
by minimus ina number of states are allowing people to not wear a mask.
some think this is disastrous!
what’s your view?.
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FFGhost
what we all know is morally wrong
And there's the issue.
What, exactly, do we "all know"?/
My neighbor thinks it's "morally right" to take my car because, in his universe, he deserves it and I don't.
That is perhaps a silly example, but you don't have to travel far to find examples of moral gray areas where there is a wide range of what people consider to be "moral".
So, we elect people to write laws, we elect people to enforce the laws, and we elect people to judge actions according to the laws.
It makes for a far more efficient society, to delegate these powers. So long as the people they are delegated to are accountable, it works. Not perfectly, not always fairly, but most of the time it works well enough.
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137
Masks Are Coming Off
by minimus ina number of states are allowing people to not wear a mask.
some think this is disastrous!
what’s your view?.
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FFGhost
You really believe that you need a “government” to tell you not to murder.
Not to tell me! I know not to. It's the OTHER GUYS I'm worried about.
And regarding "how justice is best served", frankly, I'd rather take my chances with the government than with armed vigilantes. Ever see the old movie "The Oxbow Incident" with Henry Fonda?
The Rule of Law works. Not perfectly, not in all cases, but close enough. But it only works if you grant a segment of society the right to enforce it and impose consequences for those who break it.
You really believe that you need a “government” to prevent YOU from buying rotten fruit.
No. I want someone with authority to at least occasionally inspect fruit THE OTHER GUY sells with its rottenness disguised as he tries to make a quick buck. And with the authority to disincentivize Joe Rotten-Fruit-Seller from trying it again.
Again - the Rule of Law.
You believe that you need the “government” to put out fires.
I believe that trained firefighters would do a much better job than I would. And I believe it is in human society's best interests to have first responders operating on something other than a profit motive.
You seem to be advocating more for anarchy than libertarianism.
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137
Masks Are Coming Off
by minimus ina number of states are allowing people to not wear a mask.
some think this is disastrous!
what’s your view?.
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FFGhost
f off with telling me what to do
But government tells you what to do all the time.
Governments.....um....govern.
The government tells you that you can't murder other people, it tells you that you can't sell rotten food to the public, it tells you you can't start fires on someone else's property (and it provides you with a fire department in case someone does it anyway)...
Protecting the health of its constituents is a legitimate function of government. You can't "pursue happiness" and enjoy liberty if you're dead or on a ventilator.
If there is a once-a-century pandemic that can potentially kill millions if ignored, and the government says "hey, you know, maybe not quite so many hundreds of thousands have to die if we mandate that you take this painless, mildly inconvenient step"....I'm OK with that.
Commence with the "slippery slope" arguments if you please, but that's the way I see it.
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137
Masks Are Coming Off
by minimus ina number of states are allowing people to not wear a mask.
some think this is disastrous!
what’s your view?.
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FFGhost
In all the houses I've ever lived in, I've always locked the front & back doors, every night, without fail.
Why? If someone really wants in, all they have to do is throw a brick through the window and climb in. In some cases, even simpler - just break the glass beside the door, reach in, and turn the bolt.
Likewise, I lock my car every time I park in a public place.
Why? If someone really wants to steal my car or search it for valuables, he'll just break a window.
So why all the obsession with locking things up? It's not 100% foolproof, so why bother?
We bother because it "discourages the amateurs". Most thefts are crimes of opportunity - the thief can easily gain access, no one is looking, he can be in and out in a few seconds. Locking the doors prevents most thefts, though, again, not foolproof.
Why wear a mask? The virus can still get through, right?
Sure - masks are not 100% foolproof. No one has ever said they are perfectly effective at preventing transmission.
But they "discourage the amateurs" - in the case of the virus, they stop the majority of any exhaled virus from getting too far.
It's not perfect, it's not 100% effective - but it's the best, cheapest, most effective way to help (not fully prevent - help) control the spread. Even if X% of the population don't wear it correctly, the rest of the [100 - X]% still make things better.
It's literally the least you can do to try to control the spread of a deadly contagious disease.
By now I shouldn't be, but I continue to be amazed & depressed at how such an astonishingly high percentage of the population more highly values their own hurt sensibilities due to "it's wrong for the guv-mint to tell me what I gots to do" vs. any concern over spreading disease to vulnerable people.
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11
Should I continue to help an "unbelieving" husband?
by RiverPeace ini know there are a lot of 'wise heads' out there on this forum - so i would appreciate your suggestions.. several years ago, i studied with a guy, whose wife is a jw.
(he had studied with several elders before i came along).
the study went reasonably well.
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FFGhost
An effective approach might be "what would it take to convince you that the JWs are wrong?" And don't let him wriggle out of it, get him to commit to some answer.
Virtually anything he might say, it should be fairly easy to come up with examples.
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Australia: Jehovah’s Witnesses to join redress scheme for child sexual abuse survivors
by yalbmert99 inaustralia: jehovah’s witnesses to join redress scheme for child sexual abuse survivors.
https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2021/03/03/jehovahs-witnesses-redress-scheme/.
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FFGhost
So the JWs are apparently doing the right thing!
Hmm, I wonder what their motivation is?
Could it be remorse over their past failings?
Maybe it's recognition of their moral obligation as a "spiritual" organization?
Or, could it be they're concerned with "not bringing reproach on Jehovah's name"?
Oh - they provided a quote in the article explaining why:
The organisation says it will sign up because of new rules introduced by the federal government, which mean it would lose its charity status – and subsequent tax exemptions – for continuing to hold out.
So there you have it - the reason they are joining is their utter abhorrence.
Not abhorrence of child abuse, mind you, as they often pompously proclaim.
Nope - what they really abhor is the payment of taxes.
Decades of abuse of thousands of children by thousands of JWs - but they are not moved to try to reconcile their past sins out of shame, but rather a desire to hold onto as much of their money as they can.
I don't speak Australian, but I think the term for folks like this is "F*cking wankers".