Posts by oldskool

25

JW Broadcasting is the likely end of the road for JWs

by oldskool in

i started leaving the group in 04', and quit following what they do around 08'.

my recent posts express my reaction to what has happened since.. i just "tuned in" to the jw broadcasting episode for may 2016. it is worth a viewing.

gb member anthony morris describes what is basically the thrust of why this entire effort exists.

oldskool

If they had any common sense they would also get more involved in the community. Ever heard of charity? How about a food drive or something? How about taking up some money for that family across town that lost their home in a fire?

Disaster relief, especially hurricane relief work, was one of those things that older JWs I used to speak with talked about fondly. They valued the act of getting out there and "doing something", and were completely behind it once the avenue was available for them to do so.
After hurricane Katrina I was waiting for this sort of moment to occur. A message would go out, and JWs from around the country would get together and do something. Instead it was rather lack luster. Reports were read that the Society had a response, but your job as a pub was to send in money.
Another thing that Mormons do better. I think the comparison between JW and Mormon is striking, because they are both American religions but only one seems to understand this reality.

This has always been a religious organization that looks much better 'on paper' than it does in practice in your local congregation. Now we can say, It looks much better on line that it does in practice in your local congregation. Young people dont need to ask about this grim reality; they are faced with it and leave - and we know that 'leaving' takes many forms.

I think that defining Jehovah's Witnesses as an experience for members separate from the image projected in their books is an important distinction that can't be overlooked. The WTS has always published a fantasy regarding what their organization actually is doing. At various points, I think the fantasy was much closer to reality, especially in the 60s/70s when growth was big and there was much to show. Since the mid 90s to the current time it appears the fantasy version of their reality is in high gear.

25

JW Broadcasting is the likely end of the road for JWs

by oldskool in

i started leaving the group in 04', and quit following what they do around 08'.

my recent posts express my reaction to what has happened since.. i just "tuned in" to the jw broadcasting episode for may 2016. it is worth a viewing.

gb member anthony morris describes what is basically the thrust of why this entire effort exists.

oldskool

In one of the Caleb videos about gay couples it ends with a mother/daughter discussion on how to preach in school.

The WTS looses more kids as members than any other religion. I don't see JW broadcasting help this. There may be a tendency to this that they are now catering to kids better now by getting more sophisticated with media. They are still ignoring children. It's a gimmic that will backfire.

They've targeted kids for generations. The youth book, young people ask, videos, etc., and it's just more of the same but done better. Young people have lacked good experiences for generations too. The Borg aren't going anywhere. There will always be people susceptible to their indoctrination.

Correct, a media driven approach that doesn't take into consideration what creates memorable lasting value. They still don't get it, and by dabbling in video, only enhance the inevitable disparity between a youths experience and what is portrayed on screen.

25

JW Broadcasting is the likely end of the road for JWs

by oldskool in

i started leaving the group in 04', and quit following what they do around 08'.

my recent posts express my reaction to what has happened since.. i just "tuned in" to the jw broadcasting episode for may 2016. it is worth a viewing.

gb member anthony morris describes what is basically the thrust of why this entire effort exists.

oldskool

Similar to most political alliances, the membership within the JW org is filled with different factions, each with their own set of expectations (or lack thereof) for what the faith is all about. The task for the leadership is to create one vision that gets everybody moving in the same direction, without much loss, and stability for funding.

It's more likely that the simpler, more media friendly approach will win over more people than they lose because of it

If they are moving towards a more casual type of JW membership experience then this is possible. They still have the problem of moving beyond the apocalypticism that defined the group for so long. I think of the video with a GB member casually suggesting armageddeon will be before 2040 is an example of how the family values christian faith ethos still isn't all that JWs are. Their media never told the whole story about who they are as a group, its also about the situation on the ground.

If they were a generic christian faith with non mainstream beliefs they are still faced with the same issue that occurred during print based era. There is no real structure for youth to become attached to faith. Videos are a disposable media. Use it up and move on. Video can also be alienating, because the only interaction is between viewer and the screen.

I'm nostalgic for the tv/video of my youth, but I don't think you can draw a straight line between watching videos and remaining committed to a religious faith in an ever increasing non religious world (at least western world).

25

JW Broadcasting is the likely end of the road for JWs

by oldskool in

i started leaving the group in 04', and quit following what they do around 08'.

my recent posts express my reaction to what has happened since.. i just "tuned in" to the jw broadcasting episode for may 2016. it is worth a viewing.

gb member anthony morris describes what is basically the thrust of why this entire effort exists.

oldskool

I started leaving the group in 04', and quit following what they do around 08'. My recent posts express my reaction to what has happened since.

I just "tuned in" to the JW Broadcasting episode for May 2016. It is worth a viewing. GB member Anthony Morris describes what is basically the thrust of why this entire effort exists. Regarding the materials created for children he states:

- Two postings of an item every month is making quite an impression on little hearts.

- With bible principles being impressed on the hearts and minds of children so early, we prayerfully anticipate many spiritually minded teenagers in the years to come.

It's not unusual for a religion to target their youth for conversion, indoctrination, ect. But it actually is new for JWs.

The problem for JW broadcasting and other media driven modes of interaction with youth, is that it fails at understanding that actual in the flesh experiences matter too. This is something the JW leaders have never been good at, and still appear struggling to understand.

Let us say that this GB member gets his wish. Lots of young kids, dedicated to the religion, by being brought up since youth with videos and media. Is that what is going to be the motivating force that keeps kids around?

Digital technology is new, and at this point in the western world it is everywhere. We know that people become nostalgic for the media they watched as children. This will likely occur with kid JWs now.

However, to simply broadcast ideas through video is not to create memorable and lasting experiences children carry with them through life.

Watching what the JWs are doing with media, it is clear that they are attempting to follow in the footsteps of the Mormon faith by working to project a squeaky clean "family focused" faith that is projected through media. However, the Mormons are older, more refined, more unique, and more liberal (if you can believe it), probably have more money, and invest more in social efforts than JWs ever will. I am not defending mormonism, but simply mentioning that they are known for their creation of the "cultural hall" with a baskeball court in nearly every church.

What happens when all these JW kids are told how great their religion is but are never actually given pleasurable and memorable experiences with the group, except through media alone that tells them its good? Digital media may be powerful, but at the end of the day you need to back up words/images with action.

JW Broadcasting will likely do more harm than good. The kids will go along, because they are kids. But when they grow up, their loyalty is going out the door. Without real world activities, outreach and experiences for kids, the WTS is playing with fire by pretending it exists through visual media. These kids will eventually see right through the charade, be resentful, and probably leave in higher numbers than those the WTS has already lost.

30

JW Broadcasting reeks of desperation

by oldskool in

again, i'm a decade removed from the faith.

i'm catching up now, and can't believe what i'm seeing.. i get that jw leadership faced a dilemma.

there is no intellectual apparatus within the faith.

oldskool

@breakfast

Great experience! Prof Chomsky still remains very accessible. Also, if you're into his work, you might also enjoy Prof. David Harvey, his background is similar to mine (geography), he is a great speaker and writer. Sort of in the same vein, but more economics than foreign policy with the political stuff.

12

Lett facial ticks from a stroke/aneurysm?

by azor in

jw
friends

i was speaking to my mom the other day.

she stays in the group to retain a relationship with the rest of our in family.

she told me that she heard from one of my brothers that the reason lett makes all those weird facial gestures has something to do with a stroke or aneurysm when he was a younger man.

oldskool

His delivery to so precisely timed to the Theocratic Ministry School guidebook, I would not be surprised if he believed it was the only book ever made.

45

RC Was Worse Than I thought...

by JW_Rogue in

i was visiting with my family and it seems the rc was worse than i thought.

now they all seem to think that "we are so close to the end" and that the "brothers are really preparing us for the gt".

some even saying that soon our message will change to a judgement message for mankind and talking about how we need to improve "everything we do".

oldskool

How can they say they we so encouraged by a convention that was basically a threat not to leave JWs or else.

Because they have to be.

27

Old Relative Not Happy About Push To Use Ipads Etc

by disillusioned 2 in

i was in a close relatives house yesterday and she was having angry and resentful at the push to use electronic devices at the meetings.

she was talking to another relative of mine who has just got an ipad to use.

this relative of mine is very elderly and obviously prefers to use her bible and other books.

oldskool

My mid-80 year old (45 years a JW) mother has been spoken to by the elders why she continues to use the paper literature, rather than an iPad. Crazy!

Just sad.

10 years ago she probably would have gotten a standing round of applause at a DC (yes DC i'm oldskool) if she described her love of the magazines, reading the books, ect. Now she gets the shaft.

Sad to hear the religion is filled with more pretentious assholes than when I walked out 12 years ago.

50

Does the governing body know what they are doing?

by Gefangene in

what do you guys think?.

are they only some uber religious zealots or do they pursue hidden agendas beyond religiosity?.

oldskool

To answer this question another one needs addressed first. What exactly should the governing body be doing instead of what it is doing? If we play outside consultant, with only the JW orgs best interest at heart, what would be the advice moving forward?

The first thing you do is go on an info hunt. Top down and bottom up. Financial, but also current values and attitudes present in leaders and members. You identify major problems by speaking with those in leadership roles in addition to current and former members. You assess the limitations, the mistakes along with the strengths, to figure out the most valuable lessons. You run the data and see what it tells you.

I have a gut feeling that this was done, but on the cheap. A generic plan was built for the future without any consideration for the past. I'm not very confident they came up with the JW.org strategy top to bottom on their own. They got guidance from "professionals". Whoever they hired to assist (anybody on the inside find this out?) probably was paid a good bit, but didn't have access to everything they needed for a full comprehensive strategy. The leaders felt desperate, and just went with the plan without consideration to the past.

At this point I think we should all work to find out who they hired to build this strategy for them. Of course they could have come up with this on their own, but on the chance they didn't determining which firm was hired would be an interesting fact to score.

30

JW Broadcasting reeks of desperation

by oldskool in

again, i'm a decade removed from the faith.

i'm catching up now, and can't believe what i'm seeing.. i get that jw leadership faced a dilemma.

there is no intellectual apparatus within the faith.

oldskool

Magnum,

First of, excellent avatar my man. Greatest movie of the past year, and completely underrated. Moving on.

JWdom used to at least appear to be intellectual and scholarly. Your post indicates that you became a JW in the 90's, so you might not be familiar with the seemingly scholarly period of JWdom.

When I first joined I quickly moved through all the 'current' literature at the time. I ordered every odd book you could still order, including bound volumes diaglot, king james bible (they printed that!), concordance, ect. The hall was still stacked with older books from 70s/80s in the lit counter. I read the James commentary, not knowing the origin of course, and wondered why they didn't have more books like that. Regardless, the older style of JWdom is what I gravitated to and in retrospect my main disappointment which led to me leaving was seeing how that part of the faith was on the way out.

It has become wimpy. The strong confidence of former times is gone. JWs of times past used to relish deep doctrinal discussions and even arguments, but no more; they now run from such.

Correct. Each successive generation of JW has become more tame. Gone are the sandwich board signs and picketing. This was to be expected. I believe that the strong focus on John 17:3 i.e. "taking in knowledge" combined with a reduction in the complexity and depth of that knowledge created a situation where repetitive and dull recycled material became a monotonous norm driving apathy especially among youth.

think that now they're not really wanting people like us to join. They no longer want intelligent thinkers. They want only people they can control - people who will unquestioningly follow.

My guess is that they want to sell off NYC property, build a compound that will last for decades, and transition away from expansion. The JWs put themselves in a pickle when they proclaimed for so long that the org would expand to the end. The built in anticipation for growth means they have to keep up appearances of growth, which in some respects might be costing them lots of money. What the return they see on every dollar of missionary work anyway?

I really think they want to weed out people like us because they know we see through them and would only cause problems.

The downside is that we were their biggest advocates. They may not want the risk of intellectuals within their faith, but the leadership vacuum going on has to be terrible.

At this point, I essentially think the JWs are morphing into one of these non mainstream infomercial groups but without the flair. A lot of white bread that is appetizing to nobody but vein smart asses. The JWs don't have the guts to proclaim the radical end times junk as much as they used to. Total wimps. Just compare to these other radical dips, who probably have more of a connection to the Witnesses of old than the JWs themselves:

http://www.endtime.com/
https://www.thetrumpet.com/key_of_david
http://www.jvim.com/