@punkofnice - Perfect! Two pictures are worth two thousand words.
Konagirl
JoinedPosts by Konagirl
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"The Truth"
by Ding inwe all know that jws consider the wt religion to be "the truth" and refer to it as such.. granted, that phrase is used repeatedly in the literature and from the platform.. but it's obvious that much of what the organization used to require jws to teach house-to-house as important truths--even within our own lifetimes--has been abandoned.
it's been replaced by "new light" and "refined understanding.
what's meant by "the 1914 generation" is a prime example.. in fact, i think it would be hard to find another religion that has changed so many of its teachings, especially in such a short period of time.. so why do jws still believe their religion to be "the truth"?.
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23
"The Truth"
by Ding inwe all know that jws consider the wt religion to be "the truth" and refer to it as such.. granted, that phrase is used repeatedly in the literature and from the platform.. but it's obvious that much of what the organization used to require jws to teach house-to-house as important truths--even within our own lifetimes--has been abandoned.
it's been replaced by "new light" and "refined understanding.
what's meant by "the 1914 generation" is a prime example.. in fact, i think it would be hard to find another religion that has changed so many of its teachings, especially in such a short period of time.. so why do jws still believe their religion to be "the truth"?.
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Konagirl
4. No hellfire
5. No war.
Individually, yes. But put the two points together and we have Wt’s gruesome, physically bloody war of Armageddon that they love to paint pictures about. For its leaders, it is an infectious, insatiable desire to see people burn in a war which they believe Jesus Christ and his..."144,000" will do battle in. They teach that these faithful sealed anointed will be fighting political "kings of the earth". Nope. These faithful kings belong to Christ - Rev 1:5; 5:9,10; 21:24 They battle against the unfaithful "kings of the earth" - Rev 17:1,2,18; 6:15-17
Okay, so there is a false prophet (a “beast” Rev 13:11,12) that exercises authority over the “beast from the sea” (Isa 57:20; Rev 13:1,2). It directs the beast to “make war” against the “kings of the earth”/saints. (Rev 13:7)
This is how I see Armageddon:
13 “Then I saw three unclean spirits that looked like frogs. They were coming out of the mouth of the dragon, the mouth of the beast, and the mouth of the false prophet.”
Luke 6:45 – “A good person produces good out of the good stored up in his heart. An evil person produces evil out of the evil stored up in his heart, for his mouth speaks from the overflow of the heart”.
Matt 12:34 – “Brood of vipers! How can you speak good things when you are evil? For the mouth speaks from the overflow of the heart.”
John 8:44 - "You are of your father the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of lies."
Lies are being spoken from the dragon’s mouth, the false prophet’s mouth, and the beast that is formulated from the wicked hearts of men.
1 Tim 4:1 – “Now the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will depart from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons"
Paying attention to demonic teachings.
Who is paying attention to the doctrine of men?
(scriptures4all interlinear translation) -- “For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.” Rev 16:14
They are the saints-kings of the earth belonging to Christ. The anointed are “gathered” in the Watchtower, and in there, they are listening to lies coming from the mouths of false prophets and the mouths of elders that “represent the royal priesthood” (Matt 24:14,15; Mark 13:14;2 Thess 2:3,4; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 11:1,2)
GNT Rev 16:16 – “Then the spirits brought the kings together in the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.”
We here, are all aware of the lies spoken by the organization’s leaders. We see the unexplainable blindness by those who love the organization and its leadership. (2 Cor 11:13-15) The battle isn’t a bloody war; that would be a demonic teaching that very well can be fulfilled by the father of the lie. It is a war of words - truth against lies – what comes out of the mouth by those who side with the teachings of Jesus Christ, or those who side with the teachings of the entire leadership of the organization. On another plane in the “world”, we see this happening all the time. We see deceit, coverup, materialism, oppression, lies. We KNOW it is happening in the Wt as well. There are truly genuine anointed chosen by God (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9); and for all of them still in, with all JWs, it is a time of decision making. Joel 3:14
Matt 24:4-5 - Jesus answered, “Watch out, and do not let anyone fool you. 5 Many men, claiming to speak for me, will come and say, ‘I am the Messiah!’ and they will fool many people.”
(“Messiah” – “Christ” – meaning, “anointed”)
Matt 24:24-25 – “For false Messiahs and false prophets will appear; they will perform great miracles and wonders in order to deceive even God's chosen people, if possible. 25 Listen! I have told you this ahead of time.”
The Beast from the sea requires a "mark", an identity, and "worship". (Rev 13:15-17)
"They worshiped the dragon because he gave authority to the beast. And they worshiped the beast, saying "Who is like the beast? Who is able to wage war against it?" Rev 13:4
Isn't this exactly what the leadership tells JWs? That in their version of Armageddon, the political rulers of the world cannot wage war against the organization and win?
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Apostate Hunter?
by Lost in the fog inhas anyone heard of this jw guy?.
apparently he writes a weekly (weakly?
) blog as well as having written this book where he claims he disses the claims of "apostates".. to know what apostates are saying he has to be engaging with them or tuning into websites like this one, contravening the gb's direction not to do so.
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Konagirl
TrueTomHarley, who is devoted to "Jehovah's beloved organization", hangs out here:
https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/profile/9927-truetomharley/
"I think we have discovered a literary giant of the calibre of Lloyd Evans."
Not really. :)
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ARMAGEDDON
by Lost in the fog incan i ask please especially for all who are pomo?.
we've taken a decision similar to revelation 18:4 to get out of the watchtower and not share in its sins.. how many of you still believe that god will one day terminate the world's many systems by means of an armageddon?.
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Konagirl
Hi @Lost in the fog,
If it's okay that I give my thoughts...to me, it is clear what Armageddon is about, when I read Revelation 16:13-16. It is about truth and lies. From the mouths that speak words - the mouth of a false prophet, a “beast” that the false prophet “directs” (Rev 13:12,15) and the devil, the father of the lie - “demonic expressions” are spoken to those they assemble for the “battle of Armageddon”. And those that they assemble are “kings of the earth” (NKJV), and “of the whole world” (not every soul, but coming from all parts of the world). The “kings of the earth” are mentioned in Rev 1:5 and 5:9,10, as the anointed “kings” that Jesus rules over. (We see “kings of the earth” also, in Rev 21:24 when the Kingdom is established)
It is they who are gathered to hear lies from the three entities. (three – 666 – Rev 13:18).
Jesus, the ruler of these surrounded kings, says, “Look, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who is alert and remains clothed so that he may not go around naked and people see his shame.” Jesus is speaking to those he rules over, not the kings/leaders of the world.
The scriptures have always addressed God’s people under covenant, and it is the same today. Armageddon’s battle includes these kings under covenant, and those who reside with them. By Jesus' words, the anointed will either be found alert and clinging to the truth in him, or still gathered and asleep under the spell of liars. It is a decision they make, as Joel 3:14 indicates.
This article was written by an anointed one who is out of the Wt. I fully agree with her comments. She gives the spiritual connotation to words pertaining to war in the scriptures, and how they apply in our day. Whatever happens in the world to mankind, is Satan’s doing, not God’s. The GB has painted a terrible picture of a bloody war that they say Jesus and God will cause. Jesus said it is the thief that comes to “steal, kill, and destroy. I have come so that they may have life and have it in abundance.” (John 10:10) He is truth, not a liar. It is the Wt. who has created "another Jesus", as one who kills. (2 Cor 11:4)
I believe that the GB are the “false prophets” that appear to be like a lamb belonging to Christ (Rev 13:1,2) and the “Beast” is their organization that “makes war with the saints”. Rev 13:1,2,5-7
“Armageddon – What Type of War?” https://inthenightaflyingscroll.blogspot.com/2022/05/armageddon-what-type-of-warfare.html
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It was good enough for C.T. Russell.....
by BoogerMan in....but not for jw's!.
w70 4/15 p. 250 -"in 1870 charles taze russell...was not satisfied with the sectarian [jw's are sectarian] explanations of the bible given him, so he started a bible-study class with several of his friends....".
km 9/07 p. 3 question box - "does “the faithful and discreet slave” endorse independent groups of witnesses who meet together to engage in scriptural research or debate?
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Konagirl
@Rattigan350 - "Jesus prophesied that Russell would study and start a new group of preachers and teachers. It is not a matter of independent study but the sifting of the weeds from the wheat and study is what does the sifting. However those who leave JWs because of their so-called study aren't doing what Jesus stated."
Could we not say that Russell was conducting his own "independent study" when researching the pyramid of Giza? An elder told me once that Russell believed that the pyramid was “God’s Stone Witness”. I should have acted on that mild faith-altering tremor when I heard it. As it was, the larger “earthquake” came when doing research outside of the organization. (Matt 24:7; Amos 8:11; Luke 21:36)
Would Jesus have chosen a man to be his “ambassador”, who believed a monument built by men held spiritual significance? (2 Cor 5:20) When speaking with the woman at the well, Jesus directed her attention to two physical mountains of worship – that of Samaria and of Jerusalem. He said no longer would they be a focal point of importance in worship. Russell used the pyramid as a focal point to determine the significance of 1914. He attributed it, as belonging to God. He said Isa. 19:19,20 backed up his belief. Did he listen to the words of Christ? (John 4:21-24) This belief remained with JWs for a long time. Rutherford also built his focal point, the "earthly mountainlike organization". Even though you don’t believe in the pyramid teaching today, your leaders revere Russel, a false prophet, as still important in directing the organization from heaven. That said, by GB D. Splane, who twisted and turned the meaning of Luke 21:32, to somehow "adjust" the very date that Russell established through the pyramid’s measurements, as more palatable, more nourishing "spiritual food".
Jesus told us to be aware of false prophets, to reject them; yet your leaders do otherwise, which indicates their heart condition. (Luke 6:45) Why would anyone exalt a man who preached delusions? (Deut 18:20-22; Jer 23:16) Why do you believe the God of truth would accept them? Jesus compared teachings to fruit. He expects us to search out good fruit, not to fill our collective basket full of rejected doctrines. (Matt 7:15-20) If he tells us to be discretionary in our choice of teachings/fruit, why wouldn’t we act upon his advice? The sifting of the wheat and the weeds comes from either accepting Jesus’ warnings and teachings, or accepting the words of men. It has nothing to do with belonging to an organization, as if its very presence signifies truth and salvation without examining its teachings. (Acts 17:11) You’ve got both at your disposal - Christ's words and the words of your leaders. Which do you choose?
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The JW governing body are ALREADY priests!
by BoogerMan inhow many jw's are aware they have "priests?".
w02 5/1 p. 16 par.
9 jehovah hates the course of treachery - "comparably, for more than a century now, the anointed brothers of christ, those with the heavenly hope, have served as “a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to god.”.
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Konagirl
@BoogerMan - All JW's are acting as priests.
Although anyone who knows truth should tell others what they've learned (Rev 22:17) you're not far off in your reasoning. G Losch said recently, that the spiritual temple includes all JWs. This is so far away from what was previously taught using scripture, and documented, especially in the Aid Book. So, does that make the GB high priests instead of Jesus Christ? Has the spiritual temple sanctioned by God been replaced by an organization?
It's got to be that way to support their idol/organization, to funnel in enough money to keep it afloat.
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The JW governing body are ALREADY priests!
by BoogerMan inhow many jw's are aware they have "priests?".
w02 5/1 p. 16 par.
9 jehovah hates the course of treachery - "comparably, for more than a century now, the anointed brothers of christ, those with the heavenly hope, have served as “a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to god.”.
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Konagirl
2 Cor 5:20 in their bible: Therefore, we are ambassadors SUBSTITUTING for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us. As SUBSTITUTES for Christ, we beg: “Become reconciled to God.”
You'll not find those words in the Greek Interlinear, but they come in handy now for the GB to push their weight around. So, in the quote saying that the anointed are “ambassadors for God” (their version of God) instead of Christ; and here, that the anointed are substitutes for Christ, really shows their desire to push Christ out of the way.
They always demean Jesus, and they always tell lies about what the anointed are to do and what they can't do, or what they will do in the Kingdom. Their magazine states that they are not to bond together to study the Bible, as this translates into forming an "elite group"; in reality, it threatens their organizational "unity" to adhere only to the teachings of the GB and the elder writing committee, who are bonded. (Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:16,17)
Almost their entire doctrine about the anointed is a lie. Jesus walked the earth as the second Adam, inheriting what Adam lost. (1 Cor 15:45; Gal 3:16; 3:29) He taught and helped people face to face, but look at what their doctrine has done. They have kept him and the anointed members of his spiritual body, from walking the earth ever again in their picture of "paradise", which is a lie. (Gen 28:10-17; John 1:51; Heb 1:6-7 - "angels" are messengers, messengers are priests Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9) (Matt 24:48-51)
Who takes the place to teach the ancient resurrected ones like Daniel? Their hand-picked elders who hide child abuse, who defend the teachings of false prophets. Why would prophets have to be brought up to speed about Jesus Christ when their messages prophesied about him? God put His words in their mouths to prophesy. Do they really believe that elders appointed not by God’s spirit, but by men, will teach those faithful ones chosen by God during their physical lives? The revealed message of Revelation includes what the prophets have said. (Rev 10:7)
It's just nauseating to think about the result of the "trap" that has developed, specifically to gather the anointed remnant, and place before them, a slanderous lie. (Luke 22:31; Matt 24:24,25; 2 Tim 3:1-9; 2 Pet 2:1-3)
They have changed women into men by the illustrations of “heaven”; and all of the men obviously have no personality - they are all clones. How do JWs look at that and not see how ridiculous it is? They have glorified the GB as "faithful and discreet" even though Jesus is the only one who makes that call at his return. (Matt 25:21) They have built an empire and enslaved all who fall into it, by using a few grains of biblical truth. (Amos 3:5; Prov 1:17-19) How is any of this possible?
"Now the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will depart from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons, through the hypocrisy of liars whose consciences are seared." 1 Tim 4:1,2
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The JW governing body are ALREADY priests!
by BoogerMan inhow many jw's are aware they have "priests?".
w02 5/1 p. 16 par.
9 jehovah hates the course of treachery - "comparably, for more than a century now, the anointed brothers of christ, those with the heavenly hope, have served as “a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to god.”.
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Konagirl
Well, the apostle Paul as one of the foundation “stones” of the spiritual Temple, mentioned he was an acting priest. (Rom 15:15,16 CSB) The anointed are priests, chosen to serve as a holy priesthood, and to teach the people God’s laws. (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Mal 2:7) But, only the GB serve as a “priest”, (if they are all anointed) and not for the spiritual Temple of God, but for their organization, teaching organizational doctrine instead of the laws in Christ. Makes you wonder why this religion touts of having anointed “saints” with them for the last 100 years, and yet they are not used as “priests” to serve the people.
I believe this is why: Matt 24:24,25; Matt 7:15,20; Luke 17:23
Where is the “Man of Lawlessness”
Korah seeks the priesthood – Num. 16:3-7; 10-11, 18,20-21,35,40
“Foreigners uncircumcised” serving as priests are an abomination – Num. 18:7; 2 Chron. 23:6,7; Ezek. 44:6-9
Today’s priesthood and Temple of God – 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16-17; 1 Cor 6:19-20; Eph 2:20-22
2002/8/1 Wt. – “Representing the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the world”
“When you see the abomination of desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader understand), then those in Judea must flee to the mountains.” Mark 13:14
Dan.11:31; Matt 24:15-16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev. 11:1-3; 13:1,2,18
2002/8/1 Wt. – “Rather than challenge their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders!”
Rev. 13:7 – It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue and nation”
2 Thess 2:9,10
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Is the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses REALLY the "faithful and discreet slave" of Matt. 24:45-47?
by Roger Kirkpatrick inthesis: when someone who is given a responsibility mistakes that responsibility for authority, bullying is very likely to occur.. jesus spoke an illustration recorded at matthew 24: 45-51 which well illustrates this thesis.. jesus asked, “who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over all his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?
happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so.
truly i say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.
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Konagirl
"What I could never understand about the wording of that parable is that the faithful and wicked slave are one in the same."
48 “But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time’”
It seems to indicate that the faithful servant turns wicked. And then what are we left with, no one teaching truth, right? (Mal 2:7) But that can’t be right, since the GB have told lies from the beginning. They've never been faithful to the truth of Jesus Christ.
Firstly, if Jesus is asking his servants the question and gives two scenarios of a faithful servant and a wicked servant, there’s got to be two, not just one. But verse 48 doesn’t appear to read that way. Yet, his teachings show us in several places how to determine the good servants he sends, and the bad servants, the wolves that come in sheep’s clothing. He even makes it clear that the bad servants/false prophets that rise up, will mislead the "elect"/chosen. Matt 24:5,24,25; 7:15-20; 1 John 4:1;1 Tim 4:1
In verse 45, he seems to be saying that from among the “faithful” servants, he chooses one to serve food to the household at the proper time. Verse 48 never set well with me and I’ve looked at several translations.
“But suppose THAT servant”. I concentrated on “that” and looked at a couple of interlinear translations– one is scriptures4all, the other is the Kingdom Interlinear copied here.
I noticed how the word “that” is positioned differently – the same is found in scriptures4all.
δὲ(but) εἴπῃ(might say) ὁ(the) κακὸς(bad) δοῦλος(slave) ἐκεῖνος(that) ἐν(in) τῇ(the) καρδίᾳ(heart) αὐτοῦ(of him) Χρονίζει(Is taking his time) μου(of me) ὁ(the) (lord,) 49 καὶ(and)
ἄρξηται(he should start) τύπτειν(to be beating) τοὺς(the) συνδούλους(fellow slaves) (of him,) ἐσθίῃ(may be eating) δὲ(but) καὶ(and) πίνῃ(may be drinking) μετὰ(with) τῶν(the (ones)
μεθυόντων,(getting drunk)
The bad slave, not "that" slave, doesn’t seem connected with the faithful slave. I see two different slaves and outcomes. Interestingly, the bad slave is moaning over the fact that Christ’s coming is delayed. Well, there is no other religion that I know of that not only has a counterfeit “faithful slave” but who has set failed dates for Christ’s return several times. But do they beat the other anointed servants of Christ? Well, yeah, more than ever now. The elders are the priests and “kings”, “representing the royal priesthood”. (wt 02/8/1 p. 9-14) The anointed are told to accept it and not challenge their authority. If they challenge it, they are “thrown out of the synagogue”. Dan 8:10,11; John 16:2; Rev 13:15
Does the GB eat and drink with drunkards – the elders who are fully dedicated to teach their doctrine?
Isa 28:7-10 - Even these stagger because of wine and stumble under the influence of beer: priest and prophet stagger because of beer, they are confused by wine. They stumble because of beer, they are muddled in their visions, they stumble in their judgments. 8 Indeed, all their tables are covered with vomit; there is no place without a stench.
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UN and Governing Body and an accounting
by AnnaNana injoseph and mary were not in a spiritually adulterous relationship with the roman authorities, the "legs of iron".
joseph and mary were not perfect.
the governing body of the modern-day organization of jehovah's witnesses is not perfect.
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Konagirl
"'m sure JW is obeying Christ's instructions... Right?!
To conclude, I don't remember reading anywhere in any of my Bibles that God sent Jesus to Earth in order to instruct us to build big headquarters, other magnificent buildings and an enormous network of money collecting KHs for any religion. Please, be so kind as to point me in the right direction because I might have misunderstood or missed some precious information."
It's really amazing. Jesus said to store up for ourselves, treasures in heaven, not on earth. (Matt 6:19-20) They preach a "different" or "another" Jesus, to accommodate their earthly lusts. (2 Cor 11:4) And why would God want valuable things in the light of Acts 17:24,25,29-31? He has said, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice". Matt 9:13
This sickening quote is just one that proves their defiance to the words of Christ.
Wt 16/11 p. 19-20 - "Love for God and neighbor and the urgency of the Kingdom-preaching work move God’s people “to come forward . . . with a gift in hand for Jehovah” by making voluntary donations. How thrilling it is to “honor Jehovah with [our] valuable things” and to see how such resources are used faithfully and discreetly to do the greatest work in human history!
Phil. 3:19 - "Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things."
I have to say, I reacted strongly to @AnnaNana's comment and I apologize. She - you - are obviously waking up; and probably for many of us, it took time to weed out lies from our hearts and minds - the stumbling blocks, those "strongly entrenched things", as they call them. (2 Cor 10:4,5) Sometimes, it takes years before we no longer revert back to their false doctrines.