Posts by scholar

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

The tree dream of Neb. obviously has a greater fulfillment because of its repeated references to God's Kingdom which elevates the dream and its interpretation beyond that of a simple chastisement of a naughty king. Further, there is the Introduction of ch 4 which states the lesson of what was to follow and finally Neb's confession. These literary elements along with the theme of Daniel which by scholarly consensus is that of the Kingdom and the the use of 'times' clearly proves that the dream and iys fulfillment is eschatological.

Modern day expositors also saw that double meaning in the dream and this is proved by a similar interpretation by Scofield, his editors and many prominent clergy who lived through the Great War.

I could if I had the time, the computer skills and the motivation to provide a scholarly account of matters but I simply choose not to but prefer instead to respond to posts such as yours and others in the manner in which I have accustomed. I do things this way because my intent is not to convince or convert you but simply to provide an alternative to the specious claims of devious apostates who have no love of truth or 'The Truth'.

scholar JW

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

scholar

Leolaia

Post 13206

Jeremiah along with other prophets was quite emphatic that Judah would be entirely desolated without an inhabitant for seventy years and recent scholaship in moving down this road of appreciating this historical fact. Do not forget that it was scholar on this forum that first introduced the book on the subject of the Myth of the Empty Land as it provides the scholarly discussion of this subject but one needs to read the literature published since that book to see how the debate is progressing.

scholar JW

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

scholar

Leolaia

Post 13205

I disagree with your comments about C.I Scofield and his discussion of the Gentile Times and its linkage with Daniel 4 and Luke 21:24. His discussion of the subject by means of footnotes certainly mirrors the WT interpretation and clearly links Luke with Daniel. There are course minor differences ob interpretation between WT and Scofield and his team of Editors as was the case of those clergymen who published that Manifesto during the Great War. The evidence certainly suggests that it was the thinking of the day that at that time the Gentile Times as explained in Daniel ch.2and 4 and Luke 21:24 was soon to end by means of God's Kingdom.

scholar JW

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

scholar

Leolaia

Post 13236

You need to use the data and then build your own chronology or you can simply determine the modern day calendation for the 1st year of Cyrus as done by the 'celebrated WT scholars'.

scholar JW

31

Question about 70 yr. excile:

by whyizit in

was discussing how secular references point to destruction of jerusalem in 586/7 with a jw.

used kiss method of counting back the kings from babylonian fall (according to wt daniel book on page 50-51, says it was 539.).

not sure what this person meant.

scholar

AllTime Jeff

Post 1775

Yes it does because the reference for the beginning of the seventy years is the fact that it the land 'lay desolate ' so it is simply a matter of determining what event in biblical history caused the land to be desolate and the only event was the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE.

The Jews had a chronology that was independent and far more reliable than that of the Babylonians and the Egyptians because it was complete and had no gaps in its history thus the prophecies were anchored in biblical history pointing forward to that momentous year 1914 CE.

The year 1914 CE is firmly based on the foundation of history, chronology and prophecy and has withstood the attacks of apostates and modern critics.

scholar JW

31

Question about 70 yr. excile:

by whyizit in

was discussing how secular references point to destruction of jerusalem in 586/7 with a jw.

used kiss method of counting back the kings from babylonian fall (according to wt daniel book on page 50-51, says it was 539.).

not sure what this person meant.

scholar

AnnOMaly

Post 991

2 Chron. 36;21 is precise in stating that the foretold seventy years was a precise period of desolation with the land paying off the sabbaths. The language of this verse is unambiguous and cannot be interpreted in any other way. Josephus in his many references to the seventy years agrees with this literal interpretation of the subject - seventy years.

There is absolutely no evidence for multiple 'seventy year periods but is simply an hypothesis of modern 'armchair' higher critics who have no belief or inmterest in prophecy. The historic fulfillment of the seventy years on Judah during the time of Babylonian hegemony fulfilled the prophecy of Jeremiah.

The only erroneous conclusion is drawn from apostates who believe that the seventy years represents Babylonian domination and ignore the very obvious that it was a definite historic period of desolation-serviude-exile of JUDAH from the Fall in 607 BCE until the Return in 537 BCE.

scholar JW

421

70 years = 607?

by allelsefails in

70 years of captivity?.

i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.

that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.

scholar

Mary

Post 10739

I was simply asked for names of non JW scholars who have supported the 607 date and not all of those are living today I thought that the list of names was sufficient. You make much derisory comment about the fact that the scholars that I listed were not genuine or academic scholars but I need to remind you that you are not a scholar and neither is Carl Jonsson.

If it is the case that scholar is unable to name current non JW scholars who support 607 BCE then so what because scholar cares naught about the matter for it is more important to be onside with the Greatest Scholar of all and that is the Sovereign Lord of the Universe.

scholar JW

31

Question about 70 yr. excile:

by whyizit in

was discussing how secular references point to destruction of jerusalem in 586/7 with a jw.

used kiss method of counting back the kings from babylonian fall (according to wt daniel book on page 50-51, says it was 539.).

not sure what this person meant.

scholar

AnnOMaly

Post 990

There is nothing in the opening verses of Daniel 1 that show that the first deportation of Jews began the seventy years but simply refers to an earlier exile some years before the major exile of the entire population when Jerusalem was destroyed. The facts of that latter exile fit the prophetic account of what the seventy year period would mean for Judah and Jerusalem. That seventy year period was one of exile, desolation of the land and servitude to Babylon whilst under Babylonish domination.

The hypothesis that there are several 'seventy year' periods simply makes no sense biblically or historically and does not find support with the testimony of Josephus who only referred to one definite period of seventy years.

scholar JW

31

Question about 70 yr. excile:

by whyizit in

was discussing how secular references point to destruction of jerusalem in 586/7 with a jw.

used kiss method of counting back the kings from babylonian fall (according to wt daniel book on page 50-51, says it was 539.).

not sure what this person meant.

scholar

On The Way Out

Post 8414

There is no other alternative but to accept the fact that the seventy years was a definite period of history as modern scholarship attests along with the clear testimony of Daniel, Ezra, Jeremiah, Zechariah and of corse the Jewish historian Josephus. These Bible writers were as in the case of daniel and Jeremiah live d at the time of the seventy years so their experience is far more convincing than those of the moderrn 'arm-chair' critic.

The Bible unlike the writings of secular historians is not fuzzy but specific as to event, time and place so we today can interpet those narratives with the bebefit of fulfilled prophecy. The Apostle Paul's words at Romans 3:3,4 are timeless: "Let God Be True".

scholar JW

31

Question about 70 yr. excile:

by whyizit in

was discussing how secular references point to destruction of jerusalem in 586/7 with a jw.

used kiss method of counting back the kings from babylonian fall (according to wt daniel book on page 50-51, says it was 539.).

not sure what this person meant.

scholar

On The Way Out

Post 8413

Not only would Bible prophecy be compromised by the claim that Jerusalem fell in 587 or 586 BCE but Bible History would be as well. It is impossible to reconcile the historical placement of the seventy years without 607 BCE as the only beginning date.

A close reading of all of the 'seventy year' texts prove that there was only one such period with the exception of the seventy years of Tyre. Jeremiah 25 shows that the seventy years were for Judah alone and that during that time of Babyloniah domination over Judah the surrounding nations would also suffer a similar fate of servitude.

The ending of the seventy years could not have occurred at the time of Babylon's Fall in 539 BCE because the Jews were still captive to Babylon and Daniel 9:2 shows that at that time the seventy years had not ended.

It is correct to say that there was a previous exile of Jews prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 BCE but that previous exile of ten years previous did not begin the seventy years because the land had not then become a desolate place which was only fulfilled when in 607 BCE the entire population was deported thus leaving a 'empty land'.

Daniel 9:2 proves that at that time of writing which was after the Fall of Babylon the seventy years had not then run its course but was shortly to end with the impending release of the Jews under Cyrus in 537 BCE. Your alternative interpretations do not make much sense for it seems that you are unsure about the matter.

Daniel 4 is most certainly an end-time prophecy because it concerns itself with two things: God's Kingdom and the Gentile Times both of which are eschatological in focus.

We reject 587 BCE not just becaus eof its relevance to the fufillment of prophecy but because it is a false date -false to the Bible and false to history and all secular evidence.

scholar JW