inbetween
Believe you me it is no joke, but the joke is on you for foolishly accepting apostate propaganda.
scholar JW
scholar
JoinedPosts by scholar
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43
The WTS's start of the "70 years"
by Doug Mason init is my understanding that the scholars of the wts say that the "70 years" began when the land was "completely depopulated", not when jerusalem was destroyed.. .
if that is the case, they should have jumped from their 537 bce date back to the removal of inhabitants during nebuchadnezzar's 23rd year, thus making that 607 (or 606) bce.. .
did russell start the 70 years (and hence his 2520 years) with the destruction of jerusalem or with the depopulation of the land?.
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43
The WTS's start of the "70 years"
by Doug Mason init is my understanding that the scholars of the wts say that the "70 years" began when the land was "completely depopulated", not when jerusalem was destroyed.. .
if that is the case, they should have jumped from their 537 bce date back to the removal of inhabitants during nebuchadnezzar's 23rd year, thus making that 607 (or 606) bce.. .
did russell start the 70 years (and hence his 2520 years) with the destruction of jerusalem or with the depopulation of the land?.
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scholar
Leolaia
Post 10343
It is a matter of being faithful to what the inspired record says and not read something that is simply not there. The events of the 23 rd year of Neb's reign have nothing to do with the beginning of the seventy years but simply refers in a 'matter of fact' way something of historical note that Neb did in a particular year. Further, Jeremiah in 52:28-30 simply lists the number of exilees taken not only from Jerusalem but from other surrounding nations showing the devastating effect that Neb's invasion of Judah had upon that nation as prophesied by Jeremiah.
Jeremiah was quite emphatic that Judah would be depopulated to the extent of being "wihout an inhabitant" and some months after the destruction of Jerusalem, the remaining population fled to Egypt right on time leaving the land desolate at October, 607 BCE. Such grand fulfillment of prophecy proves that Jehovah is a great Timekeeper and Fulfiller of Prophecy and so it was that the land remained deolate for a fixed period of seventy years until the return of the exiles in 537 BCE.
Scholars have theorized about the deportations and the their census but such theories do not in any way disprove the fact of the seventy years beginning in 607 BCE until 537 BCE. Such scholars have debated long and hard on the conflicting numbers of Jeremiah 52 and 2Kings 24 with no apparent resolution in sight which makes for a very detailed analysis of the military campaigns of Nebuchadnezzer into Judah and the surrounding nations. Such academic studies of this critical period although interesting hide the 'elephant in the room' metaphor whicH is the fulfillment of Jeremiahs' prophecy that Judah, its city and temple would lie desolate for seventy years.
You need to undertake much more research on this critical period and the military campaigns of Nebuchadnezzer for your hypothesis to have any chance of success and if you require some assistance in this matter then scholar will help you. I suggest that you begin with THE CHRONOLOGY OF THE LAST DAYS OF JUDAH: TWO APPARENT DISCREPANCIES. by Alberto Green in JBL.101/1,1982.pp.57-73.
scholar JW
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43
The WTS's start of the "70 years"
by Doug Mason init is my understanding that the scholars of the wts say that the "70 years" began when the land was "completely depopulated", not when jerusalem was destroyed.. .
if that is the case, they should have jumped from their 537 bce date back to the removal of inhabitants during nebuchadnezzar's 23rd year, thus making that 607 (or 606) bce.. .
did russell start the 70 years (and hence his 2520 years) with the destruction of jerusalem or with the depopulation of the land?.
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scholar
Doug Mason
Post 644
Celebrated WT scholars have determined that the seventy years began with the depopulation of Judah by October, 607 BCE a few months after the temple and city was destroyed. This is the only possible understanding of matters because the seventy year period was one of desolation, servitude and exile which was exactly how Josephus presented matters in agreement with those pertinent Bible prophecies.
Higher critics and apostates present a variety of 'fuzzy' beginnings of the seventy years but none of these are credible. Pushing matters forward to the 23 rd year of Neb has no scriptural support for the simple reason that by that time the exiles were either in Babylon or Egypt.
Whether Russell or his associates began the period at the time of destruction of the temple or when the population were deported is not important because the interval of time between these two events was only a matter of a few months.
scholar JW
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421
70 years = 607?
by allelsefails in70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
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scholar
Barefoot Servant
Post 79
It is the apostates who inhabit that deep well of delusion for if they had a truth or the Truth then they would be preaching it in imitation of our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ. But, no all that they offer is criticism and hatred just as that 'evil slave' foretold by Jesus himself.
scholar JW
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421
70 years = 607?
by allelsefails in70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
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scholar
Leolaia
Post 13207
The tree dream of Neb. obviously has a greater fulfillment because of its repeated references to God's Kingdom which elevates the dream and its interpretation beyond that of a simple chastisement of a naughty king. Further, there is the Introduction of ch 4 which states the lesson of what was to follow and finally Neb's confession. These literary elements along with the theme of Daniel which by scholarly consensus is that of the Kingdom and the the use of 'times' clearly proves that the dream and iys fulfillment is eschatological.
Modern day expositors also saw that double meaning in the dream and this is proved by a similar interpretation by Scofield, his editors and many prominent clergy who lived through the Great War.
I could if I had the time, the computer skills and the motivation to provide a scholarly account of matters but I simply choose not to but prefer instead to respond to posts such as yours and others in the manner in which I have accustomed. I do things this way because my intent is not to convince or convert you but simply to provide an alternative to the specious claims of devious apostates who have no love of truth or 'The Truth'.
scholar JW
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421
70 years = 607?
by allelsefails in70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
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scholar
Leolaia
Post 13206
Jeremiah along with other prophets was quite emphatic that Judah would be entirely desolated without an inhabitant for seventy years and recent scholaship in moving down this road of appreciating this historical fact. Do not forget that it was scholar on this forum that first introduced the book on the subject of the Myth of the Empty Land as it provides the scholarly discussion of this subject but one needs to read the literature published since that book to see how the debate is progressing.
scholar JW
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421
70 years = 607?
by allelsefails in70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
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scholar
Leolaia
Post 13205
I disagree with your comments about C.I Scofield and his discussion of the Gentile Times and its linkage with Daniel 4 and Luke 21:24. His discussion of the subject by means of footnotes certainly mirrors the WT interpretation and clearly links Luke with Daniel. There are course minor differences ob interpretation between WT and Scofield and his team of Editors as was the case of those clergymen who published that Manifesto during the Great War. The evidence certainly suggests that it was the thinking of the day that at that time the Gentile Times as explained in Daniel ch.2and 4 and Luke 21:24 was soon to end by means of God's Kingdom.
scholar JW
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421
70 years = 607?
by allelsefails in70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
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scholar
Leolaia
Post 13236
You need to use the data and then build your own chronology or you can simply determine the modern day calendation for the 1st year of Cyrus as done by the 'celebrated WT scholars'.
scholar JW
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31
Question about 70 yr. excile:
by whyizit inwas discussing how secular references point to destruction of jerusalem in 586/7 with a jw.
used kiss method of counting back the kings from babylonian fall (according to wt daniel book on page 50-51, says it was 539.).
not sure what this person meant.
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scholar
AllTime Jeff
Post 1775
Yes it does because the reference for the beginning of the seventy years is the fact that it the land 'lay desolate ' so it is simply a matter of determining what event in biblical history caused the land to be desolate and the only event was the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE.
The Jews had a chronology that was independent and far more reliable than that of the Babylonians and the Egyptians because it was complete and had no gaps in its history thus the prophecies were anchored in biblical history pointing forward to that momentous year 1914 CE.
The year 1914 CE is firmly based on the foundation of history, chronology and prophecy and has withstood the attacks of apostates and modern critics.
scholar JW
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31
Question about 70 yr. excile:
by whyizit inwas discussing how secular references point to destruction of jerusalem in 586/7 with a jw.
used kiss method of counting back the kings from babylonian fall (according to wt daniel book on page 50-51, says it was 539.).
not sure what this person meant.
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scholar
AnnOMaly
Post 991
2 Chron. 36;21 is precise in stating that the foretold seventy years was a precise period of desolation with the land paying off the sabbaths. The language of this verse is unambiguous and cannot be interpreted in any other way. Josephus in his many references to the seventy years agrees with this literal interpretation of the subject - seventy years.
There is absolutely no evidence for multiple 'seventy year periods but is simply an hypothesis of modern 'armchair' higher critics who have no belief or inmterest in prophecy. The historic fulfillment of the seventy years on Judah during the time of Babylonian hegemony fulfilled the prophecy of Jeremiah.
The only erroneous conclusion is drawn from apostates who believe that the seventy years represents Babylonian domination and ignore the very obvious that it was a definite historic period of desolation-serviude-exile of JUDAH from the Fall in 607 BCE until the Return in 537 BCE.
scholar JW