Posts by scholar

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Vanderhoven7

The 1914 parousia is bogus and spurious to scripture.

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This is your opinion. The fact of the matter is that 1914 marking the end of the Gentile times followed by the Parousia are elements of the Olivet Discourse which in total is Eschatology. Eschatology is a major part of the entire NT so before you dismiss the view of others you should have your own Eschatology and that seems to be missing from you so unless you have something to offer then you could learn from others who do have something to offer.

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And as I said, everything in Matthew 24:1-35 was fulfilled in the first century and that obviously includes verse 30.

It also includes the Jews who survived the first-century tribulation being deported into the surrounding nations. Luke 21:24

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You are correct here because Jesus' answer to His disciples featured a first-century fulfilment and its tribulation but His answer also pointed to the future or showed an eschatological focus which was further developed by the book of Revelation the activity of an eschatological Church of the anointed remnant.

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The question is, does the text allow for dual fulfilment. Will the Jews be deported once again? And the answer is a definite no.

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Again, this is simply your opinion. The Olivet Discourse contains an answer from the Master to three questions from His disciples and it is only the first question that applies to the first century in connection with the Jewish Temple. the latter questions and answers clearly point to a future time -eschatological as recognized by many commentators.

scholar JW

11

Question #1 for JW's to offer an explanation

by BoogerMan in

the r&f jw's are defined by the wtbts as antitypical "foreigners," and as such, are not participants of the new covenant:.

wt 98 2/1 p.19, par.

6 - "further, other sheep lay hold of the new covenant just as foreigners of old laid hold of the law covenant.

scholar

BoogerMan

The R&F JW's are defined by the WTBTS as antitypical "foreigners," and as such, are not participants of the New Covenant:

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The answer is simple. Under the Law Covenant the Israelites along with foreigners formed a community under that arrangement able to worship Jehovah God according to the terms and conditions prescribed by that covenant.

The New Covenant was a more intimate or restrictive arrangement made by Jesus Himself and by personal invitation to prospective members who would become the Bride of Christ.

To illustrate you may have a small group of friends that all associate together under mutually agreed social norms but if you wish to choose a bride or groom then this is a more personal decision or an intimate again having different terms and conditions as prescribed by any covenant which of course marriage is a covenant between two people.

Thus there is a vast difference between these two covenants but also strong similarities for both describe Jehovah's worship through time etc.

scholar JW

11

Question #2 for JW's

by BoogerMan in

how could the "two witnesses" mentioned in revelation chapter 11 possibly be j.f.

rutherford and his companions who got jailed and then released in 1919?.

w14 11/15 p. 30 - so in the fulfillment of revelation chapter 11, the anointed brothers who took the lead at the time of the establishment of god’s kingdom in heaven in 1914 preached “in sackcloth” for three and a half years.. watchtower november 15, 2014, p. 30 - revelation 11:7 says that it is "the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss" which kills the 'two witnesses'.. since the wild beast of rev.

scholar

BoogerMan

How could the "two witnesses" mentioned in Revelation chapter 11 possibly be J.F. Rutherford and his companions who got jailed and then released in 1919?

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The simple fact of the matter is that the 'two witnesses' do not specifically refer to any prominent individual or individuals during that climactic period from 1914-1919. These refer to all of the anointed remnant at that time or as the Revelation Climax describes them as 'faithful anointed Christians (p.164 pars.10-14).

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How could the "two witnesses" mentioned in Revelation chapter 11 possibly be J.F. Rutherford and his companions who got jailed and then released in 1919?

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The 'killing of the two witnesses' by the ' is the wild beast which came out of the abyss or sea' refers not to the later League of Nations but is described as a beast with seven heads and ten horns refers to the current ruling powers at that time which originated from the original entire political system which consisted of the historical world powers down to that present time from 1914-1919 period.. Later, an image of that wild beast was observed and that beast became the League and the United Nations.

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

ozziepost

My friend ( can I call you that?)

Let’s be nice, eh

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Absolutely, I hope you are enjoying that glass of red

Cheers

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

resolute Bandicoot

Being easily accessible hardly equates to duplicity as the reader can simply ignore the content so no one is twisting the arm. If you feel you are being scammed then go away.

schola\r JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Vanderhoven 7

Again, assertion is not proof.

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Proof is built on an assertion.

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Thomas More

Fisherman: Don’t think WT now teaches that. “circa 1914” not 1914 as discussed in another thread

This subtle change was never fully addressed but gave Watchtower an out on the sequence of events that lead to WW1. They are a slippery sort when it comes to rationality. I don't agree with their reasoning nor with 1914 doctrine, but I have to give them credit for the curve ball they pitched to get themselves out of that mess of a timing dilemma. Using their reasoning allows Satan to be evicted 10 months prior to the establishment of the Kingdom (supposedly in October of 1914). The question is: Does any JW actually care? Very few are able to explain the lunacy of the overlapping generation so why would they care if Satan got tossed out months before the Kingdom was established. They just accept it and order another drink.

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The answer is very simple. The fact is that we can determine precisely the ending of the Gentile Times right to the very calender month, October 1914 which also providentially marked the birth of God's Kingdom. Sequentially, the book of Revelation describes the ousting of Satan consequently after the birth of the Kingdom but does not provide a calendar month for that event thus once the date of 1914 is established then this provides a chronological anchor point for those events that properly form an eschatological triennium; 1914, 1918 and 1919.

You gotta luv the said scholar's mighty defence!!!! LOL

scholarJW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Vanderhoven7

Nah. Matthew 24:1-35 was fulfilled in the first century' nothing to do with newspaper exegesis Witnesses use to support 1914.

There were no signs given in Matthew 24 to announce or give evidence for Christ's parousia.

You have shown no credible evidence for 1914. I have presented scripture to support first century enthronement. Plain and simple.

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Why not put your feet where your mouth is and try to convince the public otherwise. In my public ministry either from house to house or in the public square the Witnesses have no difficulty in convincing people that the Sign is being fulfilled right before their eyes for they see the evidence on TV and in the newspapers.

Matt 24:14; Mark 13:10 and Revelation 14:6,7 prove the fact that of the Sign as with the worldwide proclamation of the Gospel only done by the Witnesses..

Rather than you being an armchair critic or sceptic why do not go out and give a public witness of the Gospel?

scholar JW

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Disillusioned JW

When it comes to books about the Bible (including theology) produced for public (often at very low prices) the WTS, the publisher of the LDS, and the publishers of the SDA to to me to produce by far the most literature. But which Christian publishers, if any, produce more such literture? Also, which Christian publishers produce far better Bible literature for the general public than the WTS, while at the same time in large quantities?

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Good points for it is only WTS that produces Bibles and extensive Bible literature free of charge and available in thousands of languages with a freely available Website which can be accessed for Bible questions and Research.

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Christian Publishing is an academic subject in its own right and here in Australia, I have acquired books for my extensive theological library from Koorong Books which is the nations leading bookstore and from Moore Theological College Bookshop in Newtown, Sydney.

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Are Zondervan, Thomas Neslson, and Holman in that group and maybe Abingdon? What about Oxford and Cambridge? It seems to me they produce books by a large number of authors, since they are not specific to any particular religion of Christianity. In order to get a consistent Christian message, perhaps I should ask which publisher of a specific church/denomination of Christianity produces the best doctrinal literature about the Bible.

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The problem with these Publishing Houses of which there are many is the cost of such books which is beyond what a working man can afford. A decent Bible Commentary Series having multiple volumes can cost well over a thousand dollars and usually are used for ministers, theological students and scholars. WT publications on the other hand are accessible to a literate public.

scholar JW

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540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

scholar

Vanderhoven 7

There is no credible scriptural evidence for Christ being enthroned in 1914. You mentioned Daniel 2:44. Adam Maarschalk has a great article on this demonstrating that Jesus kingdom rule began in the first century. Note the scholarly exegesis he provide

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The credible evidence that Christ was enthroned in 1914 is the fact that we are seeing the Sign of His Presence which he details and all of those things are clearly visible since 1914 CE. Who is this Adam Maarschalk and please present his exegesis in full for snippets do not mean much? Further, what is this person's view as to when Daniel was written for his belief on this matter would underpin his interpretation?

-- Dan. 2: 44 and vs 45 climaxes that prophetic vision so it would be fulfilled long after the fall of the Roman Empire being fulfilled at the time of the feet of the image, a Power that would be of iron and clay so his interpretation is well off the beaten track amounting to nonsense.

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Jesus thus proclaimed that the kingdom would be taken away from the corrupt Jewish religious leaders at the time of their judgment for shedding the blood of God’s saints and God’s Son. (This judgment was to fall upon Jesus’ own generation, according to Matthew 23:29-37.) It was at this time that the kingdom would be given to a fruit-bearing nation, the church.

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Are you now saying that the Kingdom of God is the Church? If so what is the Church today in order to qualify as God's Kingdom?

You have some BIG questions to answer!!!

scholar JW