scholar

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Posts by scholar

• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

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  scholar

  Jeffro

  JW eschatology is based on Adventism derived from Protestantism so it is entirely unremarkable that it shares some interpretations with those found in Protestant commentaries. It seems you don’t even understand the origin of your own preferred denomination. 🤦‍♂️ Via Russell and Rutherford, the Watch Tower Society took the nuttiest parts of Protestantism and somehow made it worse. 🤣 Not a good place at all.

  --

  False. Recent published historical research on the origins of the Bible Student's movement later becoming known as Jehovah's Witnesses shows that the early roots were not of Adventism and mainstream Protestantism but the 'Millenarian (Age-to-Come, Literalist) movement with such prophetic study from the start of the 17th century. Refer to A Separate Ideniotry: Organizational Identity Among Readers of Zion's Watch Tower: 1870-1887, B.W.Schulz and R.M.Vienne,2014, Vol.One,p.56, Fluttering Wings Press.

  ---

  And you still can’t show any support for your view from the actual source material.

  --

  Noted as above

  scholar JW
  
  
  
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Vanderhoven7

  The reason they were to pray these things was because the great tribulation was coming and these things would hamper their escape to regions beyond Judaea.

  So what you are admitting is that a great tribulation took place in the first century with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE as foretold in Matthew 24:21.--

  ---

  Absolutely, a 'great tribulation (without the definite article) would foreshadow 'the Great Tribulation described in the next pericope, vss.. 29-31 and 'the great tribulation' in Rev. 7:13, 14.

  So you can have it both ways as confirmed by proper exegesis.

  scholar JW
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Vanmderhoven 7

  So Scholar...are you saying that Jesus was warning people in his generation exclusively to pray that their flight not be in winter or on a Sabbath Day?

  Correct

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  14

  Is there ANY possibility at all that the WatchTower and the Governing Body has the TRUTH? (You're about to find out)

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in my opinion, having been a jehovah's witness for twenty years as well as being an ex-jw for forty-three years,is that the following talk as given by peter gregerson, emphatically removes any shadow of a doubt aboutwhether the claim for the faithful slave has any merit whatsoever.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytcj6smffbk&t=3145s.

  note: (references to the publication the finished mystery are given.

  you can read the entire book here:https://www.gutenberg.org/files/46016/46016-pdf.pdf.

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  scholar

  Beth Sarim

  However, the Finished Mystery is not an apostate book like the others that you mention but a serious work befitting that of a spiritual treasure.

  scholar JW
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  scholar

  ozziepost

  Surely those leading commentaries would be integral to teaching at Moore? In which case, why don’t we find JW eschatology being reflected in Sydney’s Anglican churches?

  --

  An excellent point so you should be consulting at the very least the Word Biblical Commentary series which you will easily find on the bookshelves in the Moore Theological Library. The particular volume is Matthew 14-28, Vol.33B, Donald A. Hagner,1995, Word Books, Thomas Nelson Publishers.

  The issue at hand is not whether JW Eschatology should be taught at Moore but why is it the case that no or little Eschatology is taught at Moore or in the Sydney Anglican Diocese?

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  14

  Is there ANY possibility at all that the WatchTower and the Governing Body has the TRUTH? (You're about to find out)

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in my opinion, having been a jehovah's witness for twenty years as well as being an ex-jw for forty-three years,is that the following talk as given by peter gregerson, emphatically removes any shadow of a doubt aboutwhether the claim for the faithful slave has any merit whatsoever.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytcj6smffbk&t=3145s.

  note: (references to the publication the finished mystery are given.

  you can read the entire book here:https://www.gutenberg.org/files/46016/46016-pdf.pdf.

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  scholar

  Terry

  The Finished Mystery was serious theological work based on sound biblical scholarship consistent with the times in which it was published. In hindsight, it has a few oddities targeted by apostates but its courageous exposure of Christendom is valuable even for Bible Students today. The sources used by the writers show regard for sound biblical exposition and I am pleased that it is a momentous piece of our Christian Heritage.

  scholar JW
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  None of the statements in Matthew 24:15-31 say, suggest or require any "mixture of the timing", and no part of it indicates anything about 1914. But feel free to specify the "direct statements" that you imagine support your position.

  --

  What Matthew 24: 15-31 describes for the 'reader with discernment' is that there is a transitory pericope from vss.23-28 then a shift of viewp[opint regarding the appearance and consequence of the coming of the Son of Man from vss. 29-31 as noted by reputable Bible Commentaries.

  --

  Thanks for demonstrating once again that you can't point to anything specific in the source material to support your (the Watch Tower Society's) position. Instead, you just regurgitate JW dogma.

  --

  The alleged 'regurgitate of JW dogma' accords very nicely to that of leading Bible commentaries so we are in a good position, don't you think?

  scholar JW
  
  
  
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Vanderhoven7

  In your view, is Matthew 24:34 referring to the 1914 generation or to his own generation or to both?

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  Both. for Jesus' words are directed to the generation of that day whether that generation could refer to the evil generation or His disciples living at that time and the context indicates that it has a future fulfilment during the time of the Parousia from 1914 with its application to the Church.

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  And are you praying that your flight will not occur in winter or on a Sabbath day?

  ---

  No

  scholar JW
  
  
  
• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  • Drivel. The 'chosen ones' are mentioned in verses 20, 22 and 27 of Matthew chapter 24, wherein it says that after they survive the 'tribulation' (which is 'cut short on their account'), then the 'parousia' occurs at which time they are 'gathered'. None of this supports the JW dogma that the tribulation happens during the 'parousia'.

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    Incorrect. The chosen ones referred to in vss.20 -22 are a different group as to timing as this group are of the first century and the chosen ones are of a future time, the time of His Parousia or when the Son of man will appear in glory. Plain and simple!!! LOL

    scholar JW

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• 
  540

  Simple Question Re 1914

  by Slidin Fast in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

  and the end times.

  a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Jeffro

  That is 'word salad'. It isn't the 'structure of the narrative' that 'shows the timing'. The direct statements in Matthew 24:15-31 indicate the 'timing'. Regarding the 'chosen ones', the passage directly states that the 'tribulation' would be 'cut short' on account of the 'chosen ones', and only after the tribulation had ended was 'Christ' meant to appear to 'gather' the 'chosen ones'. No part of the 'structure' suggests the 'presence' of Christ prior to or even during the 'tribulation'.

  ---

  Be that as it may, for the Olivet Discourse requires interpretation on two levels: a first-century fulfilment with the destruction of Jerusalem and a later fulfilment with Christ's Parousia beginning in 1914 CE. The direct statements from vs 15 31 prove that there is a mixture of the timing that was to occur prior to 70 CE and after 1914 CE.The chosen ones in the first instance refer to Jesus' disciples and the latter refers to His anointed ones living after 1914 or at the time of His Parousia.

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  The JW claim that Jesus' presence began in 1914 with a yet future 'great tribulation' contradicts the Bible's quite direct order of events: 'great tribulation', and then Christ's presence. Their view is a relic of C. T. Russell's failed claims about 1799, 1874 and 1878 and J. F. Rutherford's subsequent attempts to retrofit those claims to 1914 and beyond.

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  No it does not make any contradiction with Jesus' clear and unambiguous statement about the great tribulation which climaxed the Parousia.

  scholar JW