for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
It is not necessary to hold any particular superstitious belief in order to assess the relevant texts, nor is it necessary to present some alternative superstitious belief in order to demonstrate that yours is unfounded. But I have provided substantial relevant information about the subject.
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Delusional nonsense. Such a person as you describe would lack not only integrity but credibility which is a good description of a fool..
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
Huh? That doesn't even make sense! Since there was no 7-year vacancy, why would anyone expect it to be shown in Babylonian chronicles? But feel free to suggest where during Nebuchadnezzar's reign the vacancy occurred. 🤦♂️
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Huh! It makes perfect sense if the 'seven times' of Daniel has a literal application of seven years and if it pertained to Neb's regency or kingship then it is expected that if it was a historic fact then one should find confirmation in the alleged trustworthiness of the NB Chronicles.
I would suggest that the vacancy must have occurred SOON after 607 BCE which was Neb's 18th regnal year.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Sanchy
We should do an experiment where we ask others, preferably non-jw, to read Dan 4 and tell us if they discern two fulfillments. I bet that would not bode well for you either Scholar.
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The said scholar is always up for a challenge so I say 'Bring it on'. Now for your experiment, I invite the participants to focus on the following texts:
Da.4: 3, 17, 25, 26, 32, 34, 37
Now the question to be asked for all of these texts that are well distributed throughout chapter 4
is, What is the common factor for all of these verses?
Enjoy!
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
And, obviously he was also wrong again there too. Aside from the fact that Jeremiah explicitly defines the 70 years as a period during which the nations served Babylon rather than a period of Jewish exile, and that exile was only a punishment for refusing to serve Babylon “in their own land” (Jeremiah 27:8-11), and never mentioning ‘70 years of exile’ at all, Daniel and 2 Chronicles both unambiguously indicate when Babylon was ‘called to account’ by the Persians. Jeremiah further explicitly stated in chapter 29 that attention would be given to the Jews’ return only after Babylon’s 70 years had ended. Additionally, Jeremiah (29:10) and Daniel (9:2) both indicate that Jerusalem’s desolation would be complete (Strong’s H4390) at the end of 70 years, not that it was desolate for 70 years. And not to mention the fact that some parts of Judea actually remained populated throughout the whole period anyway (“The Babylonian Gap”, Ephraim Stern, Biblical Archaeology Review, 26:6, November/December 2000).
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Jeremiah specifically describes the 70 years as a period of servitude to Babylon, a period wherein the Land of Judah was made desolate and the fact of a Jewish Exile. Further, the calling to account of Babylon could only have occurred after the fact of the fulfilment of the 70 years which could have been at the Return of the Exiles. Jer. 29:10 and Daniel 9:2 are both descriptive of the fact that the 70 years was a period of servitude- desolation- exile ending at the Return in 537 BCE. No other interpretation makes any sense as such have fuzzy beginnings and endings.
You refer to Stern's article but this also supports the view that Judah was desolate for 70 years so you need to be careful with archaeology opinion and read more widely.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
Notice how the inept so-called ‘scholar’ attempted to divert attention from the fact that there isn’t actually any time during Nebuchadnezzar's reign to place 7 years of inactivity.
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Notice how Jeffro avoids the fact that the NB Chronicles omit any mention of Neb's vacancy off the throne for a period of 7 years.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
Peddling false hope by making superstitious claims, cherry picking, taking verses out of context, distorting the order of events, and dogmatically asserting things that are not stated in the Bible is not ‘superior Bible teaching’.
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You do not even believe in the Bible anyway and do not offer any alternative to its teachings and doctrines so until you have something to offer your ridicule amounts to nothing.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
Poor ‘scholar’ still doesn’t understand the book of Daniel. So much for JWs being such great ‘Bible teachers’. 😂
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Poor Jeffro cannot answer a simple question but his online blog regards Dan. 4 as just story with no prophetic or historical significance.
Unlike you, JWs at least teach both publicly and privately as superior Bible teachers.
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
ozziepost
G'day to you!
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
Wrong as usual. There isn't even a suitable time during Nebuchadnezzar's reign to place 7 years of inactivity.
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OK So What was the significance and meaning of the 'seven times' applicable to Neb or is this also fiction or myth?
scholar JW
for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?
he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.
the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.
Jeffro
It is true that 'the land of the Chaldeans' is still populated to this day and the 'prophecy' of Babylon's desolation—to the extent that it would remain uninhabited—was a failure. But Babylon's 70 years quite definitely ended when it was conquered by Persia in 539BCE. But thanks once again to 'scholar' (and Fisherman) for showing that JWs don't actually care what the Bible says when it contradicts their end-times dogma.-
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So if what you say about the prophecy of the 'land of Chaldeans' and of Babylon's destruction were not fulfilled so the prophecy about God's 'call to account the king of Babylon' also remained unfulfilled. Thus, according to your interpretation, the prophecy of Jer. 25:12 was a failure.
Babylon's 70 years could not have ended in 539 BCE for the conditions of its fulfilment were that Jeremiah's prophecy describing the 70 years was that there be a desolation of the land of Judah, a period of servitude to Babylon along with being an exile in Babylon. Clearly, these three specified conditions of the fulfilment of the 70 years were not met by the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE but only in 537 with the Return of the Jews
scholar JW
