Posts by scholar

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Indeed. 😂 The Jewish exile is broadly recognised as beginning in early 597BCE when most of Jerusalem’s population were deported to Babylon, though there were other deportation in 587BCE (when the city was also destroyed) and in 582BCE. See also Ezekiel 40:1.

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At last, the scholar has achieved a breakthrough- a recognition of the fact of the Jewish Exile. which of course had its beginning with two separate deportations culminating as the Jewish/Babylonian Exile commensurate with the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE beginning the 70 years.

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I understand that you need to cling to this dogma despite the fact that it would be plainly stupid to turn attention to their return if they had by then already returned. Sad really.

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No need for dogma but a simple recognition of a historical reality as Jer. 29:10 clearly points to their future release from captivity at the official end of the 70 years marked by their reoccupation of the Land right down to the very month.

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538BCE. Though many Jews remained in Babylon.

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Nope for 538 BCE was physically impossible unless they took flight by QANTAS or Rail.

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he ‘judgement’ (a superstitious interpretation of Persia’s conquest of Babylon) of the king and city was very definitely in 539BCE. The hyperbole about the whole land of Chaldea was never fulfilled of course, and the region is still quite inhabited.

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You seem to be plagued by superstition!! How can one part of the prophecy be interpreted literally and the remainder be viewed as hyperbole? The simple fact is that the land of Chaldea or Shinar remains uninhabited even today fulfilling Bible prophecy.

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609BCE is the year in which Babylon conquered the last vestige of the Assyrian empire at Harran, definitively marking Babylon as the new world power. But JWs conveniently forget about the ‘march of the world powers’ at this juncture. 🤣 Your fallacious argument from authority and ad hominem about Jonsson is entirely irrelevant.

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That is simply opinion. If the 70 years were marked by a distinct event that can be dated such as the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE then common sense would dictate that the 70 years would have not some 'fuzzy' beginning but a distinct event in terms of history and chronology and that is why COJ struggled with this dilemma having to consider the efficacy of 605 BCE

JW's are very familiar with the march and chronology of the World Powers and more particularly the presence of the Assyrian and Egyptian presence at the ascendancy of the NB Period in respect to the Land of Judah in the 6th century. My comment of COJ is relevant because he has dealt with is subject and was your mentor or influencer.

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So ‘scholar’ chooses to continue to lie. Stern doesn’t say Judah was unoccupied at all, he said that the towns that were destroyed weren’t resettled until the Persian period. Stern adds that small settlements remained throughout Judea during the neo-Babylonian period, and he further adds that the area of Benjamin wasn’t destroyed.

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Well if the towns were not resettled then that could well mean that the cities or towns were unoccupied for one would not expect an outsider such as a modern-day archaeologist to use the same language or terms as the prophet Jeremiah. Thus his description matches or nearly approximates the words of Jeremiah much to the chagrin of Jeffro.Thus, Stern's description of Judah approximates Jeremiah's description of the desolation of the Land of Judah.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

See how the apologist needs to get vague about referring to the exile to try to associate it with the 70 years, because the fact is that the Bible never refers to 70 years of exile. Most of the Jews were exiled (early 597BCE) about 11 years prior to Jerusalem's destruction, and Jeremiah wrote to them (594BCE) about Babylon's 70 years several years before Jerusalem was destroyed (587BCE). It would be entirely meaningless to tell those people that the exile would end 70 years after some unstated future starting point. 'scholar' can't get around that fact, so he will continue to flounder, jeer and misdirect.

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The said scholar has no need of being vague for the Exile is not only a blatant biblical fact but is a historic fact in terms of Neb's invasion of Judah and its aftermath as a conquering World Power The Exile is a perfect descriptor of the 70 years just as it is of servitude to Babylon for both terms are mutually inclusive. Jews were exiled to Babylon prior to Jerusalem's Fall and were also exiled at the time of its Fall so two deportations are subsumed as one Jewish or Babylonian Exile as treated by most historians.

There are no meaningless, vagueness or fuzzy bits associated with the Exile for its nature and chronology are clearly defined as to when it began with the Fal of Jerusalem in 607 BCE and with the Return from Exile of the Jews in 537 BCE. For example, Daniel was able to discern the near completion of the 70 years as recorded in Dan. 9:1-2.

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Complete nonsense. Jeremiah 29:10 is very clear that Babylon's 70 years would end, and then attention would be given to the Jews' return from Babylon after that. The authors of 2 Chronicles and of Daniel understood that the 'calling to account' of Babylon's king quite definitely referred to the Persian conquest of Babylon in 539BCE. No 'judgement' befell either Babylon or Cyrus in 537BCE.

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Not at all. Jer. 29:10 simply addresses the fact of their imminent release from Babylon having been exiled for 70 years thus in anticipation of their Return- release from Exile. Ezra and Daniel discuss the 70 years and understood that Jeremiah's judgement against Babylon would only occur after the 70 years had ended or been fulfilled which can only mean that the descriptors or elements of the 70 years -servitude, desolation and exile would be fulfilled and that could only occur at the Return in 537 BCE. Jeremiah described the 'judgement' in terms of the king, city and land of Chaldea and this did not happen synchronistically in 539BCE

Further, if it argued that the 70 years ended in 539 BCE with the Fall of Babylon then that would mean that the beginning was in 609 BCE wherein nothing of consequence marked that year and that is why COJ in his 'masterful deception' -GTR considered an alternative date of 605 BCE.

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Stern's article supports the fact that much of Judea was desolate during the Neo-Babylonian period. Specifically, Stern's article refers to the period from Nebuchadnezzar’s first regnal year (604BCE) until Cyrus’ first regnal year in Babylon (538BCE), which is not 70 years. But even if he had said it matched a period of 70 years exactly, it would hardly matter, because it would remain the fact that Babylon's 70 years was not a period of exile. Additionally, Stern actually says "not a single town destroyed by the Babylonians was resettled", indicating that the towns that were destroyed remained desolate until the Persian period, which is quite different to the JW claim that all the towns of Judea were uninhabited.

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Stern's article had some facts right but relied on an inaccurate Chronology so no surprises there. Stern's description of the state of the cities in unoccupied Judah matches perfectly Jeremeiah's prophecy. and agrees perfectly with our interpretation of the 70 years of desolation.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

It is not necessary to hold any particular superstitious belief in order to assess the relevant texts, nor is it necessary to present some alternative superstitious belief in order to demonstrate that yours is unfounded. But I have provided substantial relevant information about the subject.

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Delusional nonsense. Such a person as you describe would lack not only integrity but credibility which is a good description of a fool..

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Huh? That doesn't even make sense! Since there was no 7-year vacancy, why would anyone expect it to be shown in Babylonian chronicles? But feel free to suggest where during Nebuchadnezzar's reign the vacancy occurred. 🤦‍♂️

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Huh! It makes perfect sense if the 'seven times' of Daniel has a literal application of seven years and if it pertained to Neb's regency or kingship then it is expected that if it was a historic fact then one should find confirmation in the alleged trustworthiness of the NB Chronicles.

I would suggest that the vacancy must have occurred SOON after 607 BCE which was Neb's 18th regnal year.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Sanchy

We should do an experiment where we ask others, preferably non-jw, to read Dan 4 and tell us if they discern two fulfillments. I bet that would not bode well for you either Scholar.

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The said scholar is always up for a challenge so I say 'Bring it on'. Now for your experiment, I invite the participants to focus on the following texts:

Da.4: 3, 17, 25, 26, 32, 34, 37

Now the question to be asked for all of these texts that are well distributed throughout chapter 4
is, What is the common factor for all of these verses?

Enjoy!

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

And, obviously he was also wrong again there too. Aside from the fact that Jeremiah explicitly defines the 70 years as a period during which the nations served Babylon rather than a period of Jewish exile, and that exile was only a punishment for refusing to serve Babylon “in their own land” (Jeremiah 27:8-11), and never mentioning ‘70 years of exile’ at all, Daniel and 2 Chronicles both unambiguously indicate when Babylon was ‘called to account’ by the Persians. Jeremiah further explicitly stated in chapter 29 that attention would be given to the Jews’ return only after Babylon’s 70 years had ended. Additionally, Jeremiah (29:10) and Daniel (9:2) both indicate that Jerusalem’s desolation would be complete (Strong’s H4390) at the end of 70 years, not that it was desolate for 70 years. And not to mention the fact that some parts of Judea actually remained populated throughout the whole period anyway (“The Babylonian Gap”, Ephraim Stern, Biblical Archaeology Review, 26:6, November/December 2000).

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Jeremiah specifically describes the 70 years as a period of servitude to Babylon, a period wherein the Land of Judah was made desolate and the fact of a Jewish Exile. Further, the calling to account of Babylon could only have occurred after the fact of the fulfilment of the 70 years which could have been at the Return of the Exiles. Jer. 29:10 and Daniel 9:2 are both descriptive of the fact that the 70 years was a period of servitude- desolation- exile ending at the Return in 537 BCE. No other interpretation makes any sense as such have fuzzy beginnings and endings.

You refer to Stern's article but this also supports the view that Judah was desolate for 70 years so you need to be careful with archaeology opinion and read more widely.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Notice how the inept so-called ‘scholar’ attempted to divert attention from the fact that there isn’t actually any time during Nebuchadnezzar's reign to place 7 years of inactivity.

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Notice how Jeffro avoids the fact that the NB Chronicles omit any mention of Neb's vacancy off the throne for a period of 7 years.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Peddling false hope by making superstitious claims, cherry picking, taking verses out of context, distorting the order of events, and dogmatically asserting things that are not stated in the Bible is not ‘superior Bible teaching’.

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You do not even believe in the Bible anyway and do not offer any alternative to its teachings and doctrines so until you have something to offer your ridicule amounts to nothing.

scholar JW

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362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Poor ‘scholar’ still doesn’t understand the book of Daniel. So much for JWs being such great ‘Bible teachers’. 😂

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Poor Jeffro cannot answer a simple question but his online blog regards Dan. 4 as just story with no prophetic or historical significance.

Unlike you, JWs at least teach both publicly and privately as superior Bible teachers.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

ozziepost

G'day to you!

scholar JW