scholar

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Posts by scholar

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  27

  Brownnose or Scholar

  by stillajwexelder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just a quick pole - who gives you the biggest laugh on this board - you have only two choices brownnose brownboy or scholar?

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  scholar

  stillajwexelder

  I vote for scholar and I thank Alan F for paying the greatest compliment to that said scholar who strikes fear into the apostates both great and small.

  scholar

  BA MA Studies in Religion
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  67

  Pivitol Date Stuff

  by IP_SEC in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i dont "get" the whole 1914 thing.

  the 'prophetic rule'?

  day fer a year?

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  scholar

  City Fan

  Your comment in your last post is utter nonsense. You accuse me of showing no thought in my postings on the seventy years and yet your previous comment that Zechariah, the Chronicler and Daniel have different interpretations to that of Jeremiah is awful and plain ly stupid. You compound this stupidity and ignorance by presenting a wide spectrum of dates for the seventy years which leads one conclude that the Bible does not speak of just ONE sevnty years but several seventy years. Talk about mindless confusion.

  Harking back to Zechariah 1:7 whereupon the angel declares that Jehovah had denounced Jerusalem and the cities of Judah these seventy years. This must and only must refer to an already elapsed or expired period of time as it could only have referred to that period when the Land of Judah lay desolate, such an event was signified right up to the present day by regular fastings. The Jewish nation has only one period of seventy years marked by exile. servitude and desolation from the sestruction of their cities, land, religion, temple, monarchy priesthood until their return when all things could be restored.

  Again, the next mention of the seventy years by the same prophet is in Zechariajh 7:4 given two yeras later in Darius; 4th year. The context does not speak of denunciation but that of fasting and the work of the prophets namely Jeremiah during the tome when the land was inhabited in verse seven. What then was the word of Jehovah spoken by those prophets because of their disobedience? The answer is given in verses 14 and 15 which refer to the judgement from Jehovah which resulted in the land now becoming uninhabited and desolate. This metaphorical description of the state of the land is known by scholars as TREATY CURSES and is common to Jeremiah,

  In conclusion. Zechariah speaks of two 'seventy year' periods as having already been completed so common sense tells you that these periods must have been historic events already have come to pass. There is only ONE period in Jewish and biblical history that speaks of seventy years and the context of both Jeremiah, Chronicles, Danial and Zechariah agree in concert that the seventy years is one period marked by servitude to a foreign World Power, Babylon, a exile to, in. for, at, Babylon with the land remaining desolate until the exiles returned home to restore their religion, country, temple, family, cities, etc. This most momentous event in Biblical history and Theology was and is interpreted by Jehovah's Witnesses as running from 607 to 537.

  scholar

  BA MA Studies in Religion
• 
  67

  Pivitol Date Stuff

  by IP_SEC in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i dont "get" the whole 1914 thing.

  the 'prophetic rule'?

  day fer a year?

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  scholar

  M.J

  I simply explain that there are no biblical problems with the WT interpretation of the seventy years because it is directly based on Jeremiah, Chronicles, Daniel and Zechariah. These texts plainly state that the seventy years are of servitude, exile and desolation. Such events could only have been concurrent with an invasion of a foreign World Power namely Babylon under Neb and a succeeding Power under Cyrus with Jerusalem destroyed by Neb and things restored by Cyrus. Many give a number of interpretations which try to support secular chronology but fail miserably but a plain and direct reading of those texts sys otherwise.

  Gor example, there are two references to the seventy years in Zechariah which plainly refer to an elapsed period of seventy years but apostates want to interpret this period as being dulfilled right up to the present when the words were spoken. In other words that the period had not expire but was still being fulfilled. But the texts prove otherwise because that period was a fulfilled period of years which could only have been a historic event. The people remenered this chaotic event by annual fastings and needed cofort as to when the temple would finally be restored. The only period must have been when the people were in Babylon as exiles with no homeland and temple.

  scholar
• 
  67

  Pivitol Date Stuff

  by IP_SEC in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i dont "get" the whole 1914 thing.

  the 'prophetic rule'?

  day fer a year?

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  scholar

  IP-SEC

  I thought you were smart. If you have bothered to explore this issue further you should be alarmed that following the interpretations by apostates and atheists such as Alan F on the principal texts referring to the seventy years that there is much difference of opinion. Scholars and critics have their own views as to how those texts are to be interpreted and arrive at different conclusions. For example, they do not when when the seventy years began whether 605 or 609 and they do not know what the seventy years actually signifies. For example, does it refer to servitude only or to the exile, the first or second, or to the desolation of the land which has the popular view of fifty years. It seems that scholars because of these problems are beginning propose that the seventy yeras should be regarded only as a round number only as this would solve all of the problems and would easily fit into the traditional chronology. That is why that the seventy years has received scant attention in the literature beginning with Edwin Thiele who gives it no significance.

  WT chronology treats the seventy years as a valid time period as do earlier expositors and demonstrate this by the plain statements of scripture which say that there was a seventy years period of servitude, exile and desolation of the land. Jonsson and his devotees need to reconstruct this period as servitude to Babylon beginning in either 605 or 609 and having the land desolated for some fifty years. The Society;s position is simple consisting of a period of seventy years between the two most pivotal events in Biblical history namely the destruction of the temple in 607 and the return of the exiles home in 537. This is the only interpretation that works and sufficient for Christians to build their faith not in wordly wisdom but in godly wisdom.

  scholar

  BA MA Studies in Religion
• 
  67

  Pivitol Date Stuff

  by IP_SEC in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i dont "get" the whole 1914 thing.

  the 'prophetic rule'?

  day fer a year?

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  2. 
  3. 
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  scholar

  IP-SEC

  You are quite correct in giving priority to the Bible rather than the speculations of higher critics who cannot agree as to whether 587 or 586 is the correct calender date for the destruction of the temple . Also, such critics do not agree as to the meaning, beginning and end of the seenty years. City Fan wrongly asserts using the texts in Zechariah about the seventy years from 587 to 517. But the context demands that the seventy years was an historic period that had already passed when the vision was given. This period of denouncing and mourning was celebrated by annual fastings.

  In order to make the seventy years fit secular chronology, the critics amd apostates have to break up the seventy years inot servitude, exile and desolation. The Society's interpretation nicdely combines these elements into a momentous period beginning and ending with clearly fixed chronological data.namely 6o7 to 537.

  scholar

  BA MA Studies in Religion
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  17

  Transitional Vertebrate Fossils FAQ for Evolution Theory

  by hawkaw in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought some on this board, including alan f. might find this frequently answered questions on transitional vertebrate fossils interesting.

  many creationist leaning individuals seem to really misunderstand (or refuse to understand) transitional vertebrate fossils and how they are used in evolution theory.

  http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html.

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  scholar

  Hawkaw

  I repeat no transitional vertebrate fossils have been found. Alan F has raised some examples as proof but these are merely speculative claims made by evolutionists. I suggest you consult reference works that actually classify all of those fossils and show their taxonomy which clearly indicate the situation which has remained unchanged since Darwin.

  scholar

  BA MA Studies in Religion
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  17

  Transitional Vertebrate Fossils FAQ for Evolution Theory

  by hawkaw in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought some on this board, including alan f. might find this frequently answered questions on transitional vertebrate fossils interesting.

  many creationist leaning individuals seem to really misunderstand (or refuse to understand) transitional vertebrate fossils and how they are used in evolution theory.

  http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html.

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  scholar

  Hawkaw

  There are no transitional invertrebate fossils in existence. Nothing of the sort has ever been found or can be found as it is an impossibility, a problem that even Darwin admitted.

  scholar

  BA MA Studies in Religion
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  78

  Research on the validity of 1914

  by Bluegrass Tom in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here are a few facts that i have recently discovered by doing some research.. the watchtower society uses the date of 539 b.c.e as the date that cyrus took over babylon.

  they use the term "absolute date" to define this as an unquestionable point in time.

  to do this they had to ignore 586 b.c.e which is the real date for the destruction of jerusalem.. therefore, if jerusalem never lay desolate for 70 years, when does this desolation and fulfillment of this prophecy take place?

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  scholar

  Alan F disciple of Jonsson

  The only piece of information of any value is the gender of this Kristen Jorgensen. This so called 'scholar' does not present when one types the name into Google's search engine. She must be a lightweight but when you type Rolf Furuli then Bingo, his scholarship jumps right at you.

  I have her paper and it simply presents her opinion and that is fine as it simply presents a criticism but the bias destroys any inherent value but if it converts you that too is fine. For me, this is just one of many papers and articles in my collection on the seventy years and that I can refer to at my leisure.

  scholar
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  78

  Research on the validity of 1914

  by Bluegrass Tom in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here are a few facts that i have recently discovered by doing some research.. the watchtower society uses the date of 539 b.c.e as the date that cyrus took over babylon.

  they use the term "absolute date" to define this as an unquestionable point in time.

  to do this they had to ignore 586 b.c.e which is the real date for the destruction of jerusalem.. therefore, if jerusalem never lay desolate for 70 years, when does this desolation and fulfillment of this prophecy take place?

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  scholar

  Alan F-Disciple of Carl O Jonsson

  You talk about cultish behaviour when you probably have not studied Jorgeensen's nonsense because you seem to be mesmerized by the aside that he is Danish linguist with a sound knowledge of the Biblical languages. Perhaps I could say this of Rolf Furuli: a professional Norwegian linguist and a acknowledged expert in Semitic languages. Senior Lecturer in Semitic Studies, University of Oslo. BA MA PhD.

  If the Jorgenen's critique of Furuli's thesis particularly focussing on the 'seventy years' is so bashing then tell me what Calender Dates does he offer for the begining and end of the 'seventy years'? Are these dates in agreement with the Jonsson hypothesis in his GTR? If not, Why not? This will truly determine the merit of this article.

  scholar

  BA MA Studies in Religion
• 
  78

  Research on the validity of 1914

  by Bluegrass Tom in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  here are a few facts that i have recently discovered by doing some research.. the watchtower society uses the date of 539 b.c.e as the date that cyrus took over babylon.

  they use the term "absolute date" to define this as an unquestionable point in time.

  to do this they had to ignore 586 b.c.e which is the real date for the destruction of jerusalem.. therefore, if jerusalem never lay desolate for 70 years, when does this desolation and fulfillment of this prophecy take place?

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  scholar

  City Fan

  So do we have two different seventy year periods? You interpretation is preposterous and is not supported by Bible commentators. Did you bother to check what commentaries have to say on this subject of Zechariah 7:5 and 1:12. It is obvious from thte context that this sevety year had already been fulfilled, it was a past historic period when the land was desolated with its inhabitants exiled in Babylon. This is proven by the fact the last two verses of chapter seven refer back to the land as prophesied by Jeremiah.

  It could not have continued till 518 because the seventy years were not fulfilled so the angelic reminder could only referred to something that had already concluded namely the seventy years. This is not WT interpretation but an observation based upon many commentaries.

  scholar

  BA MA Stucies in Religion