scholar

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Posts by scholar

• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

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  scholar

  0zziepost

  All history books give July as the start date. What more is needed?

  ---

  A more honest interpretation of history as represented by the Australian author, Paul Ham in his 1914 The Year The World Ended. published in 2013.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

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  scholar

  inbetween

  You are moving the goal posts. It is true, that the war declaration followed gradually after 28.7.14, however, accoring to JW theology, it was Satan inciting them to do so, after his expelling from heaven. If he was expelled October 1914, what was his job when the whole world was already in conflict? The typical trench warfare began already in September 1914...the chain reaction of Alliances, formed decades earlier, started to cascade already---

  ----

  There is no need to move the goalposts as these are well fixed and placed in terms of biblical theology and modern history.

  October 1914 we have the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom.

  After that the war in heaven broke out and Satan was ousted out of heaven to caiuse much trouble on earth this was visibley manifest by the Great War followed by other troubles since 1914 which began the parousia with all of its signs right up to the present.

  The Bible does not mention the Great War as a specific event but we see by looking back in modern history that the Great War certainly is consistent with the fulfilment of prophecy.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

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  2. 
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  scholar

  Fisherman

  My point from the very beginning is that the Study Bible had a reference not too long ago using the term “circa1914” and not 1914. Now, you can't find that reference anymore and the term Gentile Times has been changed to Appointment Times of the Nations in the latest NWT Bible translation. Obviously, Appointed Times or Gentile Times are referring to the same event no matter what you call it. I was just pointing out that your used of the word “fact” to describe 1914 vis-à-vis WT use of the word “circa” and then the article being taken down.

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  Where exactly in the Study Bible is that reference for the only place I could find was in the Appendix of the NWT 2013? The fact of 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times or Appointed Times of the nations is established by means of Chronology and the fulfilment of prophecy in modern history.

  ---

  The B1 Appendix you reference explains that “about 1914” refers to the ousting of Satan and the Insight Book explains that 1914 is the end of the Gentile Times. So nothing seems to have changed about our beliefs 1914 except maybe the time for tte ousting of Satan. The insight book uses the term historical fact referring to our 1880 WT article predicting 1914 not to be confused with 1914 the end of Gentile Times being a historical fact. I am probably wrong about what I concluded when reading the circa 1914 commentary in the Study Bible but I would like to see the article again a read it again. Based on our understanding of Bible chronology, 4026 in the creation of Adam, 1975 is 6000 years later and 1914 is the end of the Gentile Times that Jesus alluded to in Luke. The premise we use is interpretation of Bible chronology and the year 607 as the exact date of tge destruction of Jerusalem. The extrapolation of 1914 is derived from that.

  ---

  Exactly, Well put.

  scholar JW

  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

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  2. 
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• 

  scholar

  ozziepost

  It reminds me of a problem I always had in Witness theology. You see if the Gentile Times ended in October and Satan was cast out to forment trouble for the earth as evidenced by global war, how come WW1 started on

  28 July 1914

  No problem. The date for the beginning of the Great War is problematic for certainly, the assassination took place long before other nations gradually became embroiled in the conflict so the timing of the month of October well coincides with the end of the Gentile Times, the birth of the messianic Kingdom with the ousting of Satan to the earth.

  scholar JW
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

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  2. 
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  scholar

  Fisherman

  You are being dishonest. That has nothing to do with the “circa” 1914 Gentile Times explanation that I referenced and you replied to.

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  Provide then the details of your reference in the Study Bible!!!

  You are being dishonest again. Both the NWT, the Insight and other publications now use the term: Appointed Times of the Nations instead of Gentile Times. When you input Gentile Times in the search index, you are also directed to Appointed Times of the Nations. If you search for the word circa, can’t find it anymore.

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  WT publications most frequently use the expression' appointed times of the nations' based on the NWT. Prior to the NWT, WT publications used the expression' Gentile Times' No big deal for these two expressions are synonymic.

  Rather than use the Study Bible why not use the WT Online Library, WT Research Guide or the WT Publications Index which are all available online and then you can pursue the subject at your leisure. Happy reading!!!

  scholar JW
  
  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

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  2. 
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  scholar

  Fisherman

  Actually, I cannot find the explanation anymore in the study bible to either validate what I said or refute what you say. We don’t even use the term Gentile Times anymore. Can you show proof by showing or quoting the explanation I referenced from the Study Bible.

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  False. The reference in the Study Bible is featured in the 'Appendix B1'- 'The Message of the Bible'. We most certainly do continue to use the expression 'appointed times' or as the venerable King Fames Bible renders the expression 'Gentile Times'.Both renderings are most appropriate as an explanation of the Danielic 'seven times'.

  scholar JW

  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  ThomasMore

  You are correct in that nothing of Biblical significance occurred in 1934, You neglected to acknowledge that 1914 brought world war but nothing else connected to Watchtowers convoluted interpretation of those events - now 108 years ago. Although I often admire the insight you have for scriptural matters, you seem to have a blinder when it comes to 1914. I can certainly acknowledge that I could be wrong, but I actually do not think that anything I once believed as taught by WTS is correct. Perhaps we should just take Jesus at his word and agree that since no man knows the day or the hour, it is presumptuous to teach others that somehow we do.

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  Incorrect, 1914 brought about the end of the Gentile Times a period of prophetic history that ended in the year 1914 which also transitioned into the Last Days and the Parousia an expression of the reality of God's Kingdom.

  I do not have a blinder for 1914 but a simple recognition of the scriptural and modern-day historical evidence which pinpoints 1914 as a momentous event in terms of biblical prophecy and modern history.

  The matter of the day and the hour is simply is an exhortation for Christ's disciples to 'Keep on the Watch' only performed by the Lord's people.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  scholar

  ThomasMore

  Nevertheless, most reputable historians say 587 BCE was the actual year of Jerusalem's destruction - not 607 BCE. That would make 1934 the momentous year. But you already know that and have tried unsuccessfully on this forum to redact what you must surely know to be the truth. But you are consistent so there's that...

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  The difficulty that you have with this assertion is that nothing happened in 1934 to make that year theologically significant but certainly the events of the Great War in 1914 makes that year of great prophetic significance.

  It is incorrect to state that reputable historians say 587 BCE was the actual year of Jerusalem's destruction when indeed 586 has long been the traditional date based on the scholarship of Edwin Thiele. However, the biblical scholarship gives the Award to 607 BCE based on the Exile of 70 years unaccounted for by Thiele and most other historians.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Fisherman

  We JW believe it is a fact based on interpretation of archeology and Bible chronology. Also, Study Bible uses the term “circa” 1914 referring to the Gentile Times clearly admitting that it is not an exact date and that there is a tolerance for error in the measurement.

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  Incorrect, for the Study Bible uses the term 'circa'- 'about' to refer not to the end of the Gentile Times as a definite date of October, 1914 CE but refers to the ousting of Satan the Devil and his demons from heaven.

  Further, all Chronology along with Archaeology is based on Interpretation so that si why there are many Bible Chronologies that are proposed by scholars.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  PimoElder

  Why is there a need to ditch 1914 when it along with 1918 and 1919 forms what could be properly termed an eschatological triennium - sound Biblical Theology?

  The date 1914 is securely based on the fact that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE which began the 70 years of Jewish Exile so it is clearly impossible to present any reasons for the abandonment or 1914 CE which marked the end of the Gentile Times and the birth of God's Kingdom.

  scholar JW emeritus