Fisherman
Based on the date of the fall of Babylon -70 years, the date is not wrong. 1914 is the year the Gentile Times ended. Proof is God’s kingdom has been ruling as JW see it.
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Well said!!!
scholar JW
scholar
JoinedPosts by scholar
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134
How far do we get away from 1914
by PimoElder inhow far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.
they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .
with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.
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scholar
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134
How far do we get away from 1914
by PimoElder inhow far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.
they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .
with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.
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scholar
Fisherman
WT had always taught that WWI started in Oct 1914 but now it doesn’t matter to you.
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False, it is a matter of opinion of modern historians as to when the Great War began but that precise beginning is not essential for the Great War broke out in 1914 and in that same year in the October saw the end of the Gentile Times, Kingdom of God began to rule and the ousting of the Devil to the earth so 1914 is a biggie for earnest and sincere peop[e.
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What ozzie brought up is that wwi started before the gentile times ended not after and he was also alluding to wt teaching that the war began in october corresponding with and evidence of the end of the Gentile Times according to wt teaching but now it doesn’t matter. It does mattter because that is wt taught. I think it is also interesting that wt has parsed gentile times, one aspect of it, the ousting of satan occuring circa 1914 or maybe the guess is that gentile times and the ousting of satan are 2 seperate events occuring years or months apart about the year 1914. However, 1914 is derived from the times algorithm and does not depend on any evidence or world wars to verify it. Old timers back then witnessed the sign of Christ presence aka composite sign so they were mentally convinced even though nothing happened in terms of Armageddon and here we are 108 years later. It is logical to conclude that since Jesus is king of the Messianic kingdom and since the purpose of the Messianic kingdom is to take action and make changes on earth, that it shouldn’t take so long for that to happen. Therefore, the author of this threat and others are saying what they are about 1914.
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The Great War most certainly began a few months prior to October that year, 1914 with a pistol shot in Serbia and escalated over the months to a full-blown world war but in that year other significant events occurred from October which fulfilled Bible prophecy as outlined in Malachi, Daniel, Revelation and the Synoptic Gospels which with the Great War provided visible evidence that God's purpose was being realized on earth thus such an accumulation of evidence proves that WT theology on such matters is overwhelmingly convincing. The Great War nicely coincides with prophecy as proclaimed by the Bible Students some 40 years previously.
scholar JW
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134
How far do we get away from 1914
by PimoElder inhow far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.
they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .
with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.
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scholar
ozzie[post
The big difference must be on the JW teaching of “presence” (parousia) and “coming”. JWs teach that Christ is already present invisibly and the faithful have to accept this unprovable teaching, just as they must accept that an invisible Christ appointed eight men to control the JW organisation which they claim Christ controls. No evidence for any of that - it’s unprovable.
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The Parousia is proved by fulfilment of the 'Sign' that Jesus gave in relation to His Parousia in the form of visible events certainly manifest by what happened aftewr1914 with the outbreak of the Great War- Spanish Flu, a worldwide pandemic, appearance of false prophets and Christs with His chosen ones exhorted to be busy in the Lord's work as illustrated parabolically keeping on the watch, not being fulfilled by Christendom or the Anglican Church of Australia..
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The teaching of Christ’s Return is part of mainstream christian beliefs and I know that in Anglican churches in Sydney public prayers include the desire to witness that and soon.
The churches teach the need to keep on the watch, preparedness,
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What utter nonsense. I was raised as an Anglican going to church with my mother until I was contacted by the Witnesses in 1958. My Godmother gave me a copy of the Anglican Prayer Book which sts out the teachings of the Church leading to confirmation and I was baptized twice as an Anglican. My knowledge of Anglican beliefs shows no interest in Eschatology and I remember Paul Barnet, a former Anglican Bishop at North Sydney wrote a small book on Revelation which did not set out any modern day fulfilment of the Revelation
The Nicene Creed which is upheld by Christendom does in its latter part makes reference to the following elements of Eschatology and ONE Holy Apostolic Church-
Resurrection of the Dead
Life of the World to Come- Blessedness and Condemnation
Life of the World to Come- Christs Return, the Judgement and Eternal Life.
One never hears any clergy speak about such matters but this is what Witnesses not only teach but preach publicly.
scholar JW
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134
How far do we get away from 1914
by PimoElder inhow far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.
they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .
with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.
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scholar
ozziepost
if the year 1914 is so important eschatologically, what do you think it heralded?
And what does that mean for christians?
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You ask a very good question. The answer is simply that in terms of Eschatology a subject that many theologians and scholars write and talk about but with no meaning for our day, something that is abstract. The date 1914 makes eschatology relevant as it sees the fulfilment of the prophecies in Daniel, Revelation and the Synoptics.Its practical application for Christians is that Eschatology gives relevance and meaning to the Lord's admonition for Christians to 'Keep on the Watch' which JW's have set a sterling example..
scholar JW
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134
How far do we get away from 1914
by PimoElder inhow far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.
they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .
with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.
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scholar
ozziepost
The Gentile Times may be of interest to those of the end Times variety but not to mainstream Christianity- they’ve got it sorted.
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Interestingly it was the case that leading clergy of Christendom proclaimed the end of the Gentile Times in 1917 so at that time the Gentile Times was important teaching having theological significance also encouraged by the scholarship of C. I. Scofield in his famous Scofield Reference Bible first published in 1909.
scholar JW
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134
How far do we get away from 1914
by PimoElder inhow far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.
they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .
with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.
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scholar
Fisherman
However, according to JW understanding of Bible prophecy, Gentile Times ended on Oct 1 1914, and JW say WWI is evidence of that whether or not historical books say WWI started on another month. At what point in time could it officially be said that WWI actually started or what standard should be used or what is the criteria is arguable —and could be in Oct depending on the standard. Albeit-any other month believed to be start of the war, according to JWinterpretation of the prophecy Gentile Times end in October 1914.
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What matters is not the beginning of the Great War but the fact that it appeared on the world in its full capacity as a true world war after the end of the Gentile Times in October 1914.
scholar JW
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134
How far do we get away from 1914
by PimoElder inhow far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.
they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .
with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.
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scholar
0zziepost
All history books give July as the start date. What more is needed?
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A more honest interpretation of history as represented by the Australian author, Paul Ham in his 1914 The Year The World Ended. published in 2013.
scholar JW
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134
How far do we get away from 1914
by PimoElder inhow far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.
they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .
with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.
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scholar
inbetween
You are moving the goal posts. It is true, that the war declaration followed gradually after 28.7.14, however, accoring to JW theology, it was Satan inciting them to do so, after his expelling from heaven. If he was expelled October 1914, what was his job when the whole world was already in conflict? The typical trench warfare began already in September 1914...the chain reaction of Alliances, formed decades earlier, started to cascade already---
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There is no need to move the goalposts as these are well fixed and placed in terms of biblical theology and modern history.
October 1914 we have the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom.
After that the war in heaven broke out and Satan was ousted out of heaven to caiuse much trouble on earth this was visibley manifest by the Great War followed by other troubles since 1914 which began the parousia with all of its signs right up to the present.
The Bible does not mention the Great War as a specific event but we see by looking back in modern history that the Great War certainly is consistent with the fulfilment of prophecy.
scholar JW
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134
How far do we get away from 1914
by PimoElder inhow far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.
they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .
with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.
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scholar
Fisherman
My point from the very beginning is that the Study Bible had a reference not too long ago using the term “circa1914” and not 1914. Now, you can't find that reference anymore and the term Gentile Times has been changed to Appointment Times of the Nations in the latest NWT Bible translation. Obviously, Appointed Times or Gentile Times are referring to the same event no matter what you call it. I was just pointing out that your used of the word “fact” to describe 1914 vis-à-vis WT use of the word “circa” and then the article being taken down.
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Where exactly in the Study Bible is that reference for the only place I could find was in the Appendix of the NWT 2013? The fact of 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times or Appointed Times of the nations is established by means of Chronology and the fulfilment of prophecy in modern history.
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The B1 Appendix you reference explains that “about 1914” refers to the ousting of Satan and the Insight Book explains that 1914 is the end of the Gentile Times. So nothing seems to have changed about our beliefs 1914 except maybe the time for tte ousting of Satan. The insight book uses the term historical fact referring to our 1880 WT article predicting 1914 not to be confused with 1914 the end of Gentile Times being a historical fact. I am probably wrong about what I concluded when reading the circa 1914 commentary in the Study Bible but I would like to see the article again a read it again. Based on our understanding of Bible chronology, 4026 in the creation of Adam, 1975 is 6000 years later and 1914 is the end of the Gentile Times that Jesus alluded to in Luke. The premise we use is interpretation of Bible chronology and the year 607 as the exact date of tge destruction of Jerusalem. The extrapolation of 1914 is derived from that.
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Exactly, Well put.
scholar JW
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134
How far do we get away from 1914
by PimoElder inhow far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.
they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .
with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.
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scholar
ozziepost
It reminds me of a problem I always had in Witness theology. You see if the Gentile Times ended in October and Satan was cast out to forment trouble for the earth as evidenced by global war, how come WW1 started on
28 July 1914
No problem. The date for the beginning of the Great War is problematic for certainly, the assassination took place long before other nations gradually became embroiled in the conflict so the timing of the month of October well coincides with the end of the Gentile Times, the birth of the messianic Kingdom with the ousting of Satan to the earth.
scholar JW