scholar

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Posts by scholar

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  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

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  scholar

  Fisherman

  To JW and those with insight, yes. To others it is subjective.

  ---

  A similar situation that Jesus confronted in his day. Nothing new.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

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  2. 
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  scholar

  Fisherman

  That is not the point. Are you saying that WT never taught or published that ww1 started on oct 1914?

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  Correct

  Also, are you saying that wt cannot go back to the drawing board and change our understanding of Bible chronology or prophecy?

  ---

  Subjects such as prophecy and chronology and with all forms of knowledge must always be susceptible to review or change for that is a feature of Epistemology

  You may recall the teaching of generation relating to 1914 was so logical and clear cut that it seemed like a dilemma when nothing happened 80 years later and wt changed it. Can you set your heart on 1914 like you did on generation or are you prepared to let it go and still remain faithful based on all the other evidence that cannot be falsified even if 1914 becomes a 1975. I have.

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  One must always be open to change and that is the case with 1914 but at this present state of knowledge, our teachings around 1914 appear to sound and well founded.

  scholar JW
  
  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  scholar

  Fisherman

  Based on the date of the fall of Babylon -70 years, the date is not wrong. 1914 is the year the Gentile Times ended. Proof is God’s kingdom has been ruling as JW see it.

  ---

  Well said!!!

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Fisherman

  WT had always taught that WWI started in Oct 1914 but now it doesn’t matter to you.

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  False, it is a matter of opinion of modern historians as to when the Great War began but that precise beginning is not essential for the Great War broke out in 1914 and in that same year in the October saw the end of the Gentile Times, Kingdom of God began to rule and the ousting of the Devil to the earth so 1914 is a biggie for earnest and sincere peop[e.

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  What ozzie brought up is that wwi started before the gentile times ended not after and he was also alluding to wt teaching that the war began in october corresponding with and evidence of the end of the Gentile Times according to wt teaching but now it doesn’t matter. It does mattter because that is wt taught. I think it is also interesting that wt has parsed gentile times, one aspect of it, the ousting of satan occuring circa 1914 or maybe the guess is that gentile times and the ousting of satan are 2 seperate events occuring years or months apart about the year 1914. However, 1914 is derived from the times algorithm and does not depend on any evidence or world wars to verify it. Old timers back then witnessed the sign of Christ presence aka composite sign so they were mentally convinced even though nothing happened in terms of Armageddon and here we are 108 years later. It is logical to conclude that since Jesus is king of the Messianic kingdom and since the purpose of the Messianic kingdom is to take action and make changes on earth, that it shouldn’t take so long for that to happen. Therefore, the author of this threat and others are saying what they are about 1914.

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  The Great War most certainly began a few months prior to October that year, 1914 with a pistol shot in Serbia and escalated over the months to a full-blown world war but in that year other significant events occurred from October which fulfilled Bible prophecy as outlined in Malachi, Daniel, Revelation and the Synoptic Gospels which with the Great War provided visible evidence that God's purpose was being realized on earth thus such an accumulation of evidence proves that WT theology on such matters is overwhelmingly convincing. The Great War nicely coincides with prophecy as proclaimed by the Bible Students some 40 years previously.

  scholar JW
  
  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  ozzie[post

  The big difference must be on the JW teaching of “presence” (parousia) and “coming”. JWs teach that Christ is already present invisibly and the faithful have to accept this unprovable teaching, just as they must accept that an invisible Christ appointed eight men to control the JW organisation which they claim Christ controls. No evidence for any of that - it’s unprovable.

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  The Parousia is proved by fulfilment of the 'Sign' that Jesus gave in relation to His Parousia in the form of visible events certainly manifest by what happened aftewr1914 with the outbreak of the Great War- Spanish Flu, a worldwide pandemic, appearance of false prophets and Christs with His chosen ones exhorted to be busy in the Lord's work as illustrated parabolically keeping on the watch, not being fulfilled by Christendom or the Anglican Church of Australia..

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  The teaching of Christ’s Return is part of mainstream christian beliefs and I know that in Anglican churches in Sydney public prayers include the desire to witness that and soon.

  The churches teach the need to keep on the watch, preparedness,

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  What utter nonsense. I was raised as an Anglican going to church with my mother until I was contacted by the Witnesses in 1958. My Godmother gave me a copy of the Anglican Prayer Book which sts out the teachings of the Church leading to confirmation and I was baptized twice as an Anglican. My knowledge of Anglican beliefs shows no interest in Eschatology and I remember Paul Barnet, a former Anglican Bishop at North Sydney wrote a small book on Revelation which did not set out any modern day fulfilment of the Revelation

  The Nicene Creed which is upheld by Christendom does in its latter part makes reference to the following elements of Eschatology and ONE Holy Apostolic Church-

  Resurrection of the Dead

  Life of the World to Come- Blessedness and Condemnation

  Life of the World to Come- Christs Return, the Judgement and Eternal Life.

  One never hears any clergy speak about such matters but this is what Witnesses not only teach but preach publicly.

  scholar JW

  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  ozziepost

  if the year 1914 is so important eschatologically, what do you think it heralded?

  And what does that mean for christians?

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  You ask a very good question. The answer is simply that in terms of Eschatology a subject that many theologians and scholars write and talk about but with no meaning for our day, something that is abstract. The date 1914 makes eschatology relevant as it sees the fulfilment of the prophecies in Daniel, Revelation and the Synoptics.Its practical application for Christians is that Eschatology gives relevance and meaning to the Lord's admonition for Christians to 'Keep on the Watch' which JW's have set a sterling example..

  scholar JW
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  ozziepost

  The Gentile Times may be of interest to those of the end Times variety but not to mainstream Christianity- they’ve got it sorted.

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  Interestingly it was the case that leading clergy of Christendom proclaimed the end of the Gentile Times in 1917 so at that time the Gentile Times was important teaching having theological significance also encouraged by the scholarship of C. I. Scofield in his famous Scofield Reference Bible first published in 1909.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  Fisherman

  However, according to JW understanding of Bible prophecy, Gentile Times ended on Oct 1 1914, and JW say WWI is evidence of that whether or not historical books say WWI started on another month. At what point in time could it officially be said that WWI actually started or what standard should be used or what is the criteria is arguable —and could be in Oct depending on the standard. Albeit-any other month believed to be start of the war, according to JWinterpretation of the prophecy Gentile Times end in October 1914.

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  What matters is not the beginning of the Great War but the fact that it appeared on the world in its full capacity as a true world war after the end of the Gentile Times in October 1914.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  0zziepost

  All history books give July as the start date. What more is needed?

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  A more honest interpretation of history as represented by the Australian author, Paul Ham in his 1914 The Year The World Ended. published in 2013.

  scholar JW
  
  
• 
  134

  How far do we get away from 1914

  by PimoElder in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

  they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

  with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  scholar

  inbetween

  You are moving the goal posts. It is true, that the war declaration followed gradually after 28.7.14, however, accoring to JW theology, it was Satan inciting them to do so, after his expelling from heaven. If he was expelled October 1914, what was his job when the whole world was already in conflict? The typical trench warfare began already in September 1914...the chain reaction of Alliances, formed decades earlier, started to cascade already---

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  There is no need to move the goalposts as these are well fixed and placed in terms of biblical theology and modern history.

  October 1914 we have the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom.

  After that the war in heaven broke out and Satan was ousted out of heaven to caiuse much trouble on earth this was visibley manifest by the Great War followed by other troubles since 1914 which began the parousia with all of its signs right up to the present.

  The Bible does not mention the Great War as a specific event but we see by looking back in modern history that the Great War certainly is consistent with the fulfilment of prophecy.

  scholar JW