Posts by scholar

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Diogenesister

Scholar This is taken from Ralf Furuli's Wikipedia page (I realise it may not be the best source, but I have read elsewhere that Furuli is no expert in the area he weighs in on here). Also, you can hardly decry Carl Olaf's scholarship, whilst calling Watchtower researcher's "scholars" in the same breath. Neither being qualified in the traditional sense.

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Furuli unlike COJ admits to his lack of expertise in some areas but in other areas, as a Semitic scholar, he has expertise in dealing with ancient languages and has demonstrated competence in interpreting the astronomical data contained in the cuneiform clay tablets. COJ was no scholar in that he had no University degree in the fields in that he claimed expertise but nevertheless, his thesis presents sound scholarship worthy of a critique. Furuli was a WT scholar and has the academic credentials to be fully qualified in the traditional sense.

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n response, in a 2004 issue of Journal for the Study of the Old Testament, Lester L. Grabbe, professor of Hebrew Bible and Early Judaism at the University of Hull, said of Furuli's study: "Once again we have an amateur who wants to rewrite scholarship. ... F. shows little evidence of having put his theories to the test with specialists in Mesopotamian astronomy and Persian history."[14]"

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I am fully aware of Grabbe's criticism of Furuli but again his expertise is not in the field of Semitic studies.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Alethia

really dont get JWs like Scholar etc. Are you messing with us Scholar or are you really that deluded?

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The only persons who were deluded were Carl Jonsson and his associates as they failed to disprove 607 BCE as the only date for the Fall of Jerusalem. COJ's thesis is flawed from many standpoints as he gave more weight to NB Chronology than the Biblical record. which shows the historical reality of the 70 years as a period of the desolation of Judah which has been a stumbling block for scholarship also he failed to properly account for the Jewish/Babylonian Exile of 70 years.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Beth Sarim

After you read CoC and In Search of Christian Freedom by Raymond Franz,,,Carl Olaf Jonsons 2 books drives the entire Borg fallacy home. You can truly put to bed any doubt in your mind the entire JW borg is based on speculation and inconclusive dogma.

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Utter nonsense. A studious examination of COJ's thesis proves the validity of 607 BCE and 1914 CE which is validated by Biblical Theology and the said scholar has spent many decades spanning from the early seventies in studying the accuracy of WT Bible Chronology.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Chevelle

Can you provide some examples of the work that you allege Carl Olaf Jonsson plagiarized from SDA scholars in Australia?
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I did not say or mean to infer that COJ plagiarized the work of others for it is clear from his own statement that he carried out independent research in order to address the issue of 607 BCE raised by a student. The earliest critiques from SDA sources in Australia are as follows:
An Examination Of The Year 1914 In The Prophetic Interpretation Of The Watchtower Society, G. Rogerson, 1964, 60 pages.
Max Hatton - SDA Pastor, Research and correspondence with WT society during the sixties.
Leonard Tolhurst - SDA Pastor and Librarian of the SDA Theological Seminary at Cooranbong, NSW.
Neil Tolhurst- SDA representative about early 1972-73 who carried out criticisms on WT Chronology in the course of his door to door ministry.
1914 and Christ's Second Coming An Examination of Jehovah's Witness Teachings on the Subject, William MacCarty, 1975, Review and Herald Publishing Association, Washington, DC which was the first non-Australian source on WT Chronology later credited by COJ in his GTR.
Many Adventists during that period in Australia were critical of our presentation of Chronology featured in the publication Babylon the Great Has Fallen published in 1963.
scholar JW
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362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

slimboyfat

Carl Olaf Jonsson despite having produced scholarly research into WT chronology, more specifically the validity of 607 BCE for the Fall of Jerusalem was not a scholar in the sense that he did not undergo learning at a University or received a Degree. COJ attempted to disprove 607 BCE by means of 17 lines of evidence from NB Chronology accompanied by his own interpretation consistent with the current scholarship of Jeremiah's '70 years' and an interpretation of the 'Gentile Times ' in Luke 21:24.

He published his original treatise submitted to Brooklyn Headquarters in 1977 titled The Gentile Times Reconsidered in four editions with a Fourth Edition reprinted as a First Edition 2021 subtitled Have Jehovah's Witnesses been wrong all along about 607 BCE? I had corresponded with COJ expressing my criticisms of his original thesis and he kindly sent me an autographed copy of his Third Edition, 1998.

One of my earlier criticisms was that he incorrectly accused the WT authors of the Proclaimers book of misrepresenting the connection of the Gentile Times with Luke 21:24 made by John Aquila Brown in his published Eventide, 1823.

Further, COJ failed to make any discussion of the Jewish/Babylonian Exile of 70 years in its theological and historical significance with the Fall of Jerusalem and failed to recognise that the 70 was a period not only of Babylonian servitude but a period of Exile with a desolated land of Judah. Further, he overstated the case of VAT 4956 as providing solid evidence for the date of 587 BCE as an Absolute Date for the Fall of Jerusalem rather than the preferred date of 539 BCE for the Fall of Babylon advocated by WT scholars since 1963. A Semitic scholar and former Winess, Dr. Rolf Furuli has since published scholarship that shows that VAT 4956 can also be interpreted to prove a 20 year gap in the NB Chronology which supports 607 BCE rather than 586BCE or 587 BCE.

Jonsson has never publicly produced his original treatise despite publishing online the correspondence between himself and the WT Society during the period when his treatise was being evaluated and it is hoped that this treatise will become publicly available.

Further, in terms of scholarly criticism of WT Chronology particularly 607 BCE and 1914 CE, COJ's research followed on the heels of earlier research made by SDA scholars and others in Australia from the fifites onto the sixties which was very similar in content to what COJ later published under the above title. Thus, his research impressive as it may be to some it was simply a replication of others' research'

Carl Olaf Jonsson Vale - May he rest in peace

scholar JW emeritus

15

Governing body 12 from 1914 generation are dead who are the new members?

by Witness 007 in

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scholar

Happy Dad

What I require is a copy of the original treatise that was sent to Brooklyn in 1977. I already have the published 2nd, 3rd and 4th editions as well as the latest First edition 2021.

scholar JW

15

Governing body 12 from 1914 generation are dead who are the new members?

by Witness 007 in

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scholar

fast Jehu

I find it rather strange that COJ or any of his associates namely 'the Editors' of COJ's Gentile Times Reconsidered have never posted or made publicly available the original typewritten manuscript sent to Brooklyn known as a treatise in 1977 which according to the posted correspondence over the years was of two parts. It would be beneficial for interested researchers to have a copy of that original document in addition to his published treatise under the aforesaid title. Unfortunately, COJ is uncontactable so if someone out there has access to this treatise it would be greatly appreciated. My friend Doug Mason whose assistance I have sought on this matter was not able to provide this document.

scholar JW

53

1975 on the back burner

by Fisherman in

“1975” still marks 6000 years from the creation of adam in wt calendar.

according to “all scriptures inspired” book, there is a gap between the creation of adam and the creation of eve and her marriage to adam.

it was at that point in time when eve was created that marked the end of the 6th creative day and the beginning of god’s rest, the 7th day as recorded in genesis.

scholar

Jeffro

Get a room.

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That comment was for you!!!

scholar JW

53

1975 on the back burner

by Fisherman in

“1975” still marks 6000 years from the creation of adam in wt calendar.

according to “all scriptures inspired” book, there is a gap between the creation of adam and the creation of eve and her marriage to adam.

it was at that point in time when eve was created that marked the end of the 6th creative day and the beginning of god’s rest, the 7th day as recorded in genesis.

scholar

In just two years' time, 2025 we will celebrate the fact of the biblical significance of 1975 with the passing of its Jubilee of 50 years which according to accurate Bible Chronology proved 7000 years of human existence from Adam's creation in 4026 BCE. In earlier times, Chronologists such as the venerable Irish Anglican prelate Archbishop James Ussher (1581-1656) had calculated 4004 BCE for the creation of Adam. This date has been subsequently corrected by 'celebrated WT scholars from Pastor Charles Russell's day to 1963 as 4026 BCE.

Such scholars speculated that 1975 could also coincide with the beginning of the seventh period of a thousand years - a sabbath period of rest and release as a great Jubilee sabbath. Such an event would fittingly fit into or coincide with. Jehovah's God's creative week of 'seven days' with its seventh day thought to have been of 7000 years in length according to Jewish tradition.

For me, 1975 and its attendant 4026 BCE as the date of Adam's creation demonstrates the accuracy of Bible Chronology as opposed to many other schemes of Chronology proposed by scholars in Christendom. It has stood the test of time, especially with regard to many of its significant dates such as the dates for the Divided Monarchy, the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE, the Jewish Exile, the date of the Exodus and events in the life of our dear sweet Lord, Jesus Christ.

scholar JW

208

How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?

by psyco in

i remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.

thanks..

scholar

Fisherman

The poetic language of the Bible and the irony requires that Zion was dispossessed of Jews and that 70 is a literal prophetic number.

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In short, the Jewish of the Babylonian Exile specifically of 70 years duration.

scholar JW