Posts by scholar

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

What we actually have is an eclipse on 5 July 568 BCE but that is asserted by JWs to have occurred on 15 July 588 BCE (which is impossible because Simanu never starts in July), and a summer solstice 6 days earlier which necessarily occurred within a day of 29 June regardless of the chosen year anywhere during the neo-Babylonian period, once again showing the JW interpretation to be impossible. All of the events, as well as the required intercalary month preceding Nisan, perfectly fit 568 BCE.

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A nice summary of your position but WT scholars have shown that the lunar eclipse described in VAT 4956, 3 Simanu according to the Julian calendar would be 15 July 588 BC and that the New Year would have begun 2/3 May. The solstice 9th Simanu mentioned in the tablet is dated six days earlier thus would be 9 July 588 BC. No doubt much debate about this new research with continuing controversy but WT scholars are quite relaxed and comfortable about such controversies and so is the said scholar.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Thank you and now the said scholar can pursue the issue with the expert, Dr. Rolf Furuli

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

I have no problem at all. The solstice falls on exactly the expected date of 29 June 568BCE. You really should stop relying on nutters like Furuli.

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This is not what I asked for. If you cannot or choose not to give the date of the solstice for 588BC then the said scholar will dismiss your conundrum regarding it as inapplicable then there will be no need to seek the advice of an expert such as Rolf Furuli.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

In order for the said scholar to resolve your problem it is required that the specific date for that solstice for 588 BC be clearly established as mentioned in VAT 4956 now that it is known that the following lunar eclipse 15 Simanu is the 15 July 588 BC -Julian calendar then the said scholar can contact Rolf Furuli for his comment on the relationship between a solstice and an eclipse in terms of Chronology.

Scholar hastening to resolve this conundrum!

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

he... 15th... is 6 days after the... 9th.

The... solstice.. on the... 9th... is necessarily... within a day of 29 June.

6... days... after... 29 June... is... 5 July.

It is physically impossible for the eclipse in question to occur on 15 July.

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What a fascinating conundrum you have posited for now we have a lunar eclipse dated 15 July 588 BC and the solstice on the 9th of the 3rd month which is believed to be on 29th June 588 BC? The said scholar needs some serious scholarly assistance to resolve this matter methinks something is rotten here but the said scholar will investigate this matter further and find the source of the 'smell'.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Vintage

"According to the translation of the VAT 4956 tablet, during Year 37, Month 1 of Nebuchnezzar, King of Babylon, Saturn was in front of the Swallow. The Swallow is the region of the night sky we now call Pisces. The night sky is divided into 12 regions. Saturn passes through all of them on its 29.4 year-long orbit.

"That means that Saturn takes 2.42 years to move through each of the 12 constellations. Once Saturn moves out of Pisces, it will not return there for another 27 years. According to Babylonian astronomers, Saturn was in Pisces in Nebuchadnrzzar's 37th year which astrologists set at 568 BCE.

"Running our SkySafari Plus program and setting the time and date to Friday, April 22, 568 BC, 1:00 AM, location: Baghdad, we get an image showing the planet Saturn within the Pisces (Fish) constellation (Figure 16)."

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Furuli in his Assyrian, Babylonian And Egyptian Chronology, Vol.2, 2007 in 'Table C.2 shows the positions of Saturn according to Line 1-2 in VAT 4956 and finds against 568 BC in comparing that with the data for 588 BC but such is problematic for a number of reasons. At best the planetary is ambiguous due to a number of pertinent factors.

acholar JW

Link Dislike Lik

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

t hadn't seemed necessary. Like others, I had only responded to what the Watch Tower Society had actually claimed, and of course they don't mention that the date of the summer solstice in VAT 4956 immediately shows them to be wrong. But, at my own leisure, I will add mention of this additional issue just to even more thoroughly show the Watch Tower Society's position to be completely and utterly wrong.

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Strange that it is important now so you will be altering your Blog post? WT scholars have not mentioned the summer solstice no doubt because it has no significance to the matter at hand.

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Do I just? 🤣 I don't really need to do any such thing. But if I find a conveniently accessible source, I might do so if I feel like it. Irrespective, the range of possible solstice dates is quite definite. (And it's 568BCE, doofus. Not 586.)

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Only for the purposes of honesty and transparency but on scholar's request you have done accordingly.

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Once again demonstrating your ignorance. But obviously it would affect the position of the moon relative to the various constellations.

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Well then what is the computed difference or effect for it is odd that others have not noted such an impact.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

But since it is established that the summer solstice necessarily occurs around 29 June (Julian calendar) for the given period, the 9th day of the 3rd month must correspond to around that date. And it does exactly correspond for the established chronology of 568 BCE. Of considerably less importance, the eclipse 6 days later is therefore reaffirmed as falling on 5 Ju

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The appearance of the summer solstice on the 9th of the 3rd month is irrelevant to the lunar eclipse of the 15th of the third month for it is simply one of the many astronomical observations computed or observed contained in the tablet. But if you believe it is significant then it is a matter for you.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Thank you and I accept the omission of 588 BC for scholar is not too difficult and hard to please.

Now all that you have to do is explain the relevance of the date of the summer solstice of 'the 9th' on Line '16' of the tablet and the lunar eclipse of the 15th' on Line '17'.

scholar JW

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

scholar

Jeffro

Maybe other commentators haven't raised it because the other problems with the Watch Tower Society's flawed analysis are generally sufficient to show them to be wrong. But I am quite clever as well, so I don't mind being first.

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How come you have not mentioned this matter in your Blog on your website? Further, you need to provide a scanned copy of such tabulations for the solstice for the years 586 and 588 BCE. The said scholar is of the opinion that changes concerning the Earth's orbital distance from the Sun has no impact on observations of the Moon either observed or computed thus such a solstice has no relevance to the subject at hand and that is why WT critics are silent on this matter- a red herring!

scholar JW