It boggles my mind that anyone could deny a crime with literally tens of thousands of eyewitnesses. It would make about as much sense to be a 9/11 denier.
Rainbow_Troll
JoinedPosts by Rainbow_Troll
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47
Have you ever known a holocaust denier? How did you feel about them?
by Esse quam videri ini sometimes did work for a lovely old couple who at times needed repairs done around their home.
my wife and myself spent time with them, having tea and crackers from time to time.
one day the husband and myself got into a conversation and he clearly showed himself to be a holocaust denier.
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Not Inspired?
by kairos inthe head, jesus christ, supplies the body members with what is needed for good cooperation, coordination, and spiritual nourishment.
in such respects, the governing body is organized to take the lead as jehovah directs them by holy spirit.. 2008 wt 5/15 pg 29. the party's over....
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Rainbow_Troll
The various reasons the February 2017 WT article submits for accepting the GB' s guidance are specious.
Their first assertion, that the uniqueness of the WT doctrines prove that they are being guided by the holy spirit since no mere man could have discovered them, makes no sense. Firstly, the principle doctrines they mention were enunciated by pastor Russell years before the GB even existed. Secondly, most of Russell's doctrines were not originated by him, but were gleaned from other sources. Arius of Alexandria rejected the trinity way back in the second century. Annihilationism (no hell) was taught by several early church fathers and conditional immortality (no immortal soul) was preached by Martin Luther and others long before Russell. I've met born againers who believe in the resurrection and the millennium. These two beliefs are very explicitly put forth in the scriptures. Any literate person could open up a bible and find them; no divine guidance is necessary. As for Russell's prophecies? Christians have been fortelling the imminent end of the world for two thousand years. Have I left anything out?
Their second assertion, that the society's worldwide preaching work would be impossible without angelic assistance is demonstrably false unless the GB is willing to admit that the Mormons, Anglicans, Baptists, and Catholics are also recieving the same assistance. Many Christian denominations do missionary work, sometimes in countries where their religion is outlawed. All it takes is faith, courage and discretion; no angels are necessary
Their third assertion, that the GB insistance on strictly upholding biblical standards of morality in spite of our world's changing mores proves their divine mandate, is simply false. All it demonstrates is that people hold differing ideas of what is right and are willing to stand their ground no matter what others might do. Fundamentalists of every faith are doing this all over the world, not just JWs!
I anticipate one more argument the GB might make to defend their authority: maintaining orthodoxy. If every JW were free to follow their own conscience, then the Org would soon schism into dozens of little sects each with their own version of the truth. It sounds plausible, but history does not bear this theory out. The Bible Students have nothing equivalent to a governing body and, though there are several independent BS organizations, they all seem to hold the same beliefs; beliefs that have gone largely unchanged from Russell's time. At this point a GB member might object that this is just the problem: without inspired leadership, their wayward brethren have stagnated. But what exactly does this mean? Bible Students still adhere to all the "truths" that the JWs do (sans a few silly restrictions on holidays and blood transfusions). They love and trust Jehovah. They live ethical lives. They have the hope of being resurrected in the millennium, and they share that hope with others. Is there anything of value that the GB can add to that? Do they really believe that God gives a fig that the Bible Students continue to celebrate his son's birthday on the wrong date and that he will hold this against them and deny them eternal life, in spite of all their devotion and love for him? Does the GB honestly believe this?
I doubt it.
But if they really do believe in such a callous pharisee of a God then they are cowards and hypocrites. Hypocrites for worshiping a deity that they, in the privacy of their hearts, can only abhor. Cowards for kneeling to such a monster because they are afraid of accepting their mortality, while so many other people have willingly given up their lives for what they believed was right, often with no hope of being resurrected in the future. This is the sort of god that even devout Christians and Muslims (excepting the fundies) will laugh at if you suggest it to them. He's a caricature, a piñata that every 'militant' atheist takes a whack at in his tirade against religion. Thus, the GB is actually injuring their own cause if this is what they preach. They may as well insist that the world is flat and that the sun circles the earth.
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Here's a morbid thought...
by Rainbow_Troll init probably will never happen but... imagine the gb recieved some new light that told them the great tribulation was imminent.
the world is going to hell and all jws can expect until armageddon is terrible persecution the likes of which no christian has ever experienced in two thousand years.
but jehovah has a solution: put yourself and your family 'to sleep' and after armageddon's over, jehovah will 'wake his people up' at the resurrection.
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Rainbow_Troll
I stand corrected. However, I still think the GB's dictatorial style of leadership is totally inconsistent with the humility that should naturally follow from a genuine admission of fallibility.
If the GB is fallible, then they are no more worthy of obedience than any other self-appointed body of men and JWs should have the freedom to either accept or reject their pronouncements as their concience directs them.
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Here's a morbid thought...
by Rainbow_Troll init probably will never happen but... imagine the gb recieved some new light that told them the great tribulation was imminent.
the world is going to hell and all jws can expect until armageddon is terrible persecution the likes of which no christian has ever experienced in two thousand years.
but jehovah has a solution: put yourself and your family 'to sleep' and after armageddon's over, jehovah will 'wake his people up' at the resurrection.
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Rainbow_Troll
It was a hypothetical 'what if?' question. To my best knowledge the governing body has never advocated suicide in any circumstance, not even in the case terminal illness.
As for the GB admitting that they are fallible? That would be nice, but you'll have to show me a publication if you want me to believe that. If the GB thinks they are fallible, then why do they require JWs to conform to every little fiat they issue from their headquarters? I mean, they might be wrong ,so who are they impose their speculations on others? If they are fallible then why does any JW who disagrees with them, even on minor doctrinal points, get put before the holy inquisition (otherwise known as a judicial committee) who asks him to recant his heretical views or else face disfellowshipment? The statement "We are fallible." just doesn't follow from their behavior.
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Here's a morbid thought...
by Rainbow_Troll init probably will never happen but... imagine the gb recieved some new light that told them the great tribulation was imminent.
the world is going to hell and all jws can expect until armageddon is terrible persecution the likes of which no christian has ever experienced in two thousand years.
but jehovah has a solution: put yourself and your family 'to sleep' and after armageddon's over, jehovah will 'wake his people up' at the resurrection.
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Rainbow_Troll
It probably will never happen but... Imagine the GB recieved some new light that told them the great tribulation was imminent. The world is going to hell and all JWs can expect until armageddon is terrible persecution the likes of which no Christian has ever experienced in two thousand years. But Jehovah has a solution: put yourself and your family 'to sleep' and after armageddon's over, Jehovah will 'wake his people up' at the resurrection. How many JWs would be willing to go through with it. None? A few? Most? All?
Considering how many JWs have allowed their own children and spouses to die when they needed a blood tranfusion, I'm betting most would happily chug the kool-aid and die with a big, bovine grin on their faces.
Frankly, this is one of my nightmares. I know it seems improbable now, but keep in mind that even Heaven's Gate explicitely taught that suicide was wrong.. until Applewhite got his new orders from the saucermen. It wouldn't be hard to pull off either. The Org has a very efficient private grapevine that allows them to swiftly and discretely communicate with any congregation in the world. No need to publish anything in the official publications. It could be done in a matter of hours.
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Jehovah is unjust (outrageous article on slavery in last WT for public)
by Master_Bob inaccording to the last paragraph of the article entitled "escape from slavery—then and now" (wt#2, 2017).
jehovah god felt grieved by the harsh treatment of israelite slaves in egypt; he must feel the same way about similar injustice today.. .
if you call modern slavery "injustice", wasn't the slavery during moses time also "injustice"?
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Rainbow_Troll
The link is broken so I can't read the article. In any case, I'm surprised to hear the WT flatly condemning slavery. Biblical references to slavery, old and new testament, are unilaterally positive. Not even Jesus seems to have condemned the practice (at least not directly).
I wonder if this is just due to ignorance (unlikely) or the beginning of a less fundamentalist position. At this point it's only tacit, but if the GB could just concede that the Bible contains errors - both ethical and historical - it could begin a liberalizing trend for Jehovah's Witnesses. Who knows, 50 years hence there might be openly gay elders and teenaged couples holding hands in the Kingdom Hall.
Wouldn't it be grand?
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The right to shun - wrong?
by Simon inmany people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.
it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.
of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.
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Rainbow_Troll
Some JWs do use shunning as pretext for cruelty, but there are plenty of exceptions.
When I was being shunned by my best friend there was an instance when we accidentally met face to face (not in the KH) in a narrow hallway. Since the only way we could get away from each other was by turning around and going in the opposite direction, it was a very heavy, awkward moment for both of us.
She stared at me. I stared at her... I saw that her eyes were beginning to tear up. I was going to say something when she suddenly turned her back on me and briskly walked away; probably so I wouldn't see her cry.
She definitely did not want to shun me, but she had to. She wasn't an independent adult who could go anywhere she wanted. She was a 15 year old girl whose dad was an elder. When her half-sister was DFed, both of her parents resolutely shunned her, so my friend could have no doubt over what would happen to her if she did not shun me.
I want to remind you that this person was my BEST friend. I had known her since she was seven and I was eight. We were like siblings. I can't just shrug my shoulders and dismiss her as a fair-weather-friend who was forced to show her true colors because of the GB's shunning policy.
And my story isn't unique. So many ex-jws have had same experience. Shunning destroys friendships and families every day. Good people get hurt on both sides. It needs to stop.
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Wow what do you think true story
by poopie inthis is an actual case.
a jw was recently disfellowshipped heres the reason.
he was and elder and regular pioneer at the time baprized 40 years he decides to rent a room from a women who rents rooms out to singles ,he moves in and there's another guy there also renting a room he happens to be disfellowshipped .
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Rainbow_Troll
I'd say this guy must have done something to really piss off the other elders. But then, some people are just cruel by nature...
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How long until some of the Biblical apocrypha will be inserted into the WT teachings?
by nonjwspouse ini have read through some of these, though not in complete, but enough to see some of these writings could fit into the wt views, such as arian beliefs of jesus.
it would also help separate themselves quite a bit from "christiandom" and their bible.
the "new light" of books not accepted in the canon.
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Rainbow_Troll
It will never happen and here's why: If the governing body added apocryphal books to the JW Bible, they would have to concede that the Bible as we know it didn't arrive gift wrapped from heaven. They'd have to explain that the Bible they have been deriving their teaching from all these years was voted into being by the Roman Catholic Church - yes - the whore of Babylon herself! A revelation like that would totally undermine the entire Watchtower theology.
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The right to shun - wrong?
by Simon inmany people are understandably upset and angry at the notion that jws have the right to shun people.
it seems such an obvious "no brainer" cruel and inhuman thing to do - it must be wrong ... surely?.
of course we look at things from the perspective of those hurt and harmed by shunning.
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Rainbow_Troll
If JWs were free to shun or not shun, I would agree. But the fact is that JWs who don't shun their DFed friends and family risk being disfellowshipped themselves. That's coercion, not a free choice, and if there were a way to prevent the governing body from exerting this coercion on the JWs I would be in favor of it.
As to how it could be enforced, I have to admit that it probably isn't possible.