i don't have the link but i am trying to post this, this is from a previous post on jwn.
watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc. dear brothers:.. we received your letter of december 17 in which you inquire about handling a situation involving a brother who has been guilty of serious violation of the law in the past.. you explained that you received information indicating that this brother ?committed several murders and crimes before his baptism.
you ask if law obligates some action on our part.
I am appalled but not shocked. We had a similar situation and handled it the same way. Hopefully he didn't kill anyone else. It is a hand-wringer.
Watchtower claims clergy ecumenical privilege but denies that it has a clergy, except when they need the title.
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=d0a1ca63-2027-4702-9f6d-3c3da5fd9c5f.
This is not a black and white issue. If for example, a policeman harms someone on his lunch break, the municipality could be included in a civil suit if the policeman was using his authority as a policeman when he hurt someone, even in a small way. Also, if the Dept. knew that he had a propensity for misconduct, they will certainly be named in a civil suit.
As for offending JW elders, often they have used their title and privilege to position themselves so as to hurt a member of the flock. In the case of the 2 elders in Illinois, they were acting in an investigative capacity when they told a little girl and her mother that they should remain silent about the rape she endured by a male member of the congregation. Subsequently, the Service Dept and Legal Dept offered incorrect (and hurtful advice) that allowed the rapist to continue to rape the young girl for 12 more years - that's right - 12 more years.
The court found the elders guilty for not reporting, and it is very interested in the attorney at Watchtower who dispensed incorrect legal advice across state lines. It is likely that he/she will be disbarred and Watchtower will pay dearly ($$$$$) for the incompetence when a civil suit (which is a foregone conclusion) is filed.
I would not be quick to let Watchtower off the hook for the misdeeds of elders and ministerial servants. In each case, it is essential to determine if/how they used their authority in the commission of the offense.
youtube's 'xjw curious,' pete corbeil, reads proselytizing letter written by a pimo jw who simply shares current watchtower teachings like no other jw.
use google drive link below to print your own copies of this letter.
(114) shocking letter reveals jehovah's witnesses true beliefs!
Fulano - all of it since it is accurate.
Carla - Pete says it was a PIMO (so you are correct since PIMI JWs consider PIMOs to be apostates).
A realtor once told me that houses in dire state of disrepair are best sold with the lights down low. That is the case with JWs selling their brand of truth. When the light is shined on it, all the falsehoods and control mechanisms are revealed.
Watchtower fears that interested ones will dive into the unscriptural teachings they promote and recognize them for what they are. For this reason, they are redacting former writing as fast as they can in the hopes that older printed publications will become too scarce for fact-checking, This is a mark of dishonesty that should be an immediate heads up for sincere seekers of truth.
how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.
they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .
with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.
scholar JW
You are correct in that nothing of Biblical significance occurred in 1934, You neglected to acknowledge that 1914 brought world war but nothing else connected to Watchtowers convoluted interpretation of those events - now 108 years ago. Although I often admire the insight you have for scriptural matters, you seem to have a blinder when it comes to 1914. I can certainly acknowledge that I could be wrong, but I actually do not think that anything I once believed as taught by WTS is correct. Perhaps we should just take Jesus at his word and agree that since no man knows the day or the hour, it is presumptuous to teach others that somehow we do.
I will wait patiently on the true God and welcome his decision to glorify himself in a righteous and just manner. In the meantime, I will not attempt to force others to believe in a moving target of bible interpretations.
Me - a man made of dust.
how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.
they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .
with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.
Fisherman,
Actually Watchtower only uses "circa" when referring to when war broke out in heaven and Satan was ousted. They started acknowledging that "about" was better to say when it was pointed out that WW1 started in the Summer of 1914, before their interpretation of October as the end of the gentile times and when Satan was ousted from heaven to the vicinity of the earth. This was a problem so now they just say that war in heaven could have broken out before the gentile times ended, before the Summer when the war broke out. Disconnecting the 2 events helps explain the 6+ months needed for Satan to 'land' on earth and foment enough discord to start a world war.
Nevertheless, most reputable historians say 587 BCE was the actual year of Jerusalem's destruction - not 607 BCE. That would make 1934 the momentous year. But you already know that and have tried unsuccessfully on this forum to redact what you must surely know to be the truth. But you are consistent so there's that...
how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.
they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .
with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.
Terry, I think you meant Jonah.
As for JW's they have painted themselves into a rather tight corner with the 1914 teaching and the peripheral doctrines associated with that year. As an end times religion, they need something to happen but if it doesn't, they are flexible enough to come up with another shiny teaching to substitute. The rank & file will accept it too. Why?
Because the rank & file need something to believe in, even if it is nonsense. The type of people that follow this religion need to believe that the end is near and could come in their lifetime. They don't need scriptural-based teachings - they need hope that something will save them from this miserable life that they are leading.
This is why they seldom respond to well-thought out reasonings about their non-sensical teachings. Trying to convince them otherwise is usually an exercise in futility. After many decades of service and living through pretty radical changes, I am convinced that most JWs don't care. If they cease to teach all the nonsense of even add to it, many JWs will still follow them and send them money. Some will leave but most will not. It is sad - yes?
i was thinking that since russell started the movement in 1879 which became jehovah's witnesses in 1931 never has there been a period in time when all their activities just - stopped.
especially the preaching work.. do you think they will find some obscure verse in daniel that talks about this period of time and try to make a greater fulfillment?
like the 70 weeks of years or the 42 months?
Disillusioned JW - " They also have stopped sharply directly criticizing the United Nations organization".
They stopped doing this during the time that they were an NGO of the UN during the 1990's as well. They are now a member of the European sister organization of the UN, and I suspect that they are once again an NGO of the UN under a name that would not be associated with Watchtower. You will recall that they only withdrew when The Guardian exposed their membership. It would be uncharacteristic for WTS to be pressured to do something they don't want to do. Ex. - They only joined the Australian redress scheme when they were losing their charity status. Even now, most congregations in Australia are unaware that they are on the hook for compensating victims. Please correct me if I am wrong, but only the COBEs were instructed to obligate the congregations for the compensation.
sorry if this has been discussed before but on quora someone asked if rutherford had said that dinosaurs had been taken to venus .
i assume that the questioner had heard it somewhere and wanted to check it out.
i've never come across this before is it true ?
The Awake! was discontinued for economic reasons as well as lack of credibility. If you knew some of the editors, you would understand how such outrageous info worked its way onto the pages. There was seldom an honest attempt to prove anything that was written. And why should there be? If anyone disagreed, they would be pounded down like a protruding nail. Put simply, the magazine ceased to be taken seriously and the GB knew it. In like manner, the 192 page books have been phased out as many of their assertions were ludicrous.
this is the letter i wrote back in '96 about the parousia.
following the '95 watchtower that disconnected the "generation" from 1914 i began to look carefully at end-time prophecy and soon discovered what i knew were basic errors in what i had been taught.. i was a loyal jw at the time and was still serving as an elder.
i used only watchtower publications in my research.
I recall a young man who questioned the religious leaders that had some authority over him. In fact, his reasonings had so much logic, and authority, that they framed him and as you know - they had him put to death.
Cofty, you discovered that if you disagree with them, you must be killed by them, like the High Priest had Jesus killed. If the GB could have had you executed, they would have. Thank God for the secular authorities who place limits on what they can do.
As for sorting out the spaghetti of how WTS interprets (yes, they do interpret, not just explain), it is a fools' errand to throw your pearls before them because:
1) They are incapable of recognizing the truth.
2) They lack the humility to benefit from the truth if it means that they must readjust their viewpoint and admit that someone else understands Gods Word more than they do.
When a sincere person reads the Bible with the genuine intention of understanding it, he/she quickly arrives at different conclusions than WTS. What should they do? Continue to read and let God guide their thinking and their hearts. Separating from JWs is not easy but necessary to please God if that is the intention.
how many times did you see elders hounding congregation members to quit their jobs due to missing meetings?.
my brother worked at a grocery store at 16 years old.
he would miss tuesday's ministry school due to his work schedule.
The WTS has been aware of the dilemma they create for the ranf & file. A GB member once said "we need to help some here at Bethel to find an exit door and a place to land". He knew that there would be few opportunities for untrained people in this world, Today, Bethel still kicks older ones out before they reach 62, even after decades of service.
It is hard to put a pretty face on what they do. I believe that it bothers some in the leadership, but they won't speak out due to the consequences.
My parents never encouraged college but I went and thank goodness I did! The price was years of ostracism in the congregation, but like Long Hair Gal, it paid off with a reasonable retirement. It is frustrating to see so many lose opportunities as they follow the unrealistic commands of the religion.
