Posts by ThomasMore

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

"Witnesses contend that Satan caused the First World War out of anger for being cast down. However, he was cast down in October of 1914 according to WTS interpretation, and yet the war began in August of that year and preparations for the war had been going on for a considerable time before that, as early as 1911. That would mean he had to get angry before he was cast down and the woe to the earth began before he was cast down."

JWs love to point to the coincidence and say "SEE! We were right all along!" But the facts are (1) it was years later after 1914 that they adopted the current narrative. Revisionist history at its best! (2) They no longer stand behind war in heaven in October of 1914, but their crafty explanation of "circa" is not broad enough to address the real history of the buildup to WW1 which started years prior to 1914. (3) To this day, they refuse to address the establishment of Israel as a nation born in one day in May, 1948. Why? It simply does not fit their clumsy narrative.

540

Simple Question Re 1914

by Slidin Fast in

wt claims that satan was thrown out of heaven in october 1914 precipitating ww!

and the end times.

a small problem with that is ww1 started on july 28th 1914 whilst satan was still in heaven picking his nose.. how did we not see this and waste years of precious life?

ThomasMore

Fisherman actually identified the spin Watchtower started using when this was presented to them years ago.

WT claims that Satan was thrown out of heaven in October 1914

Fisherman: Don’t think WT now teaches that. “circa 1914” not 1914 as discussed in another thread

This subtle change was never fully addressed but gave Watchtower an out on the sequence of events that lead to WW1. They are a slippery sort when it comes to rationality. I don't agree with their reasoning nor with 1914 doctrine, but I have to give them credit for the curve ball they pitched to get themselves out of that mess of a timing dilemma. Using their reasoning allows Satan to be evicted 10 months prior to the establishment of the Kingdom (supposedly in October of 1914). The question is: Does any JW actually care? Very few are able to explain the lunacy of the overlapping generation so why would they care if Satan got tossed out months before the Kingdom was established. They just accept it and order another drink.

9

The attorneys gave us bad advice.

by Lost in the fog in

the attorneys gave them bad advice, and when contacted the wt says we don't comment on specific cases.

what a cop out!.

https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20220521/jehovahs-witness-elders-who-failed-to-report-child-abuse-got-bad-advice-say-local-pastors-attorneys.

ThomasMore

Those two men are now convicted felons. Due to their age, they won't suffer too much from having that on their records, but other elders need to pay close attention to what happened.

ATTENTION JW ELDERS: DO NOT ACCEPT DIRECTION FROM WATCHTOWER ATTORNEYS AT FACE VALUE. CALL THE LOCAL POLICE AND ASK IF THE DIRECTION IS ACCURATE FOR YOUR LOCALITY.

Accepting bad legal advice can get you thrown in jail and labeled as a co-conspirator. The error may never catch up with the attorney who dispensed the advice, but you will pay dearly. Ask a bank or an employer how they feel about felons. Don't put yourself in that position. The buck will stop with you.

68

Prediction of how Watchtower going to be in 5 Years.

by Foolednomore in

jw
friends

i can see it that watchtower will become an online/tv based group with just con-vention hall$.. field service would be letter writing and phone preaching, door to door is done.. watchtower will have pay to view programs and still ask for donations after all that.. zoom meetings are here to stay.

kingdumb halls will be sold off except for con-vention venues, or need for new ones$.. df'ing will continue.

the craziness will continue.

ThomasMore

I agree with JW Tom (and glad to see him posting again!)

"As the GBoobies and the Bethel Borg get more and more desperate.....I think almost anything is possible. They are already getting pretty desperate in my opinion."

Watchtower reeks of desperation. The cash on hand as of 2 years ago is barely enough for operating expenses and the deluge of out-of-court settlements is taking its toll. As well, they are paying dearly for representation in court by non-JW attorneys (who actually charge for their time). The balance of cash on hand today is not known but I believe it is considerably less than it was after the completion of Warwick, given the beatings they have been taking in court and in private litigation.

The legal dept. is in desperate as the licenses of 2 top attorneys are in jeopardy according one source.

All things considered, the Ramapo project is a Hail Mary. If they are unable to execute flawlessly, they might finish in time to successfully execute their vision of a digital e-religion that makes and sells religious videos to JW and non-JW audiences (like the Left Behind series). However, their branded narrative is likely to be so doctrinally unbalanced that most people will be angered rather enamored with the messages.

Meanwhile, attendance at the KHs is struggling and 'word on the street' is that many are using Zoom as a first step in fading.

Is the GB planning a great escape? One could be lead to believe that given their own statements about replacements and the completion of the new sparkling retreat in Argentina.

Word to any active JWs reading this: DO NOT TRANSFER YOUR ASSETS TO WATCHTOWER NO MATTER HOW ILLOGICAL THE DIRECTION IS. Think first, phone a friend, wait for a sign, take a vacation to think it over carefully. Whatever will help you act with discretion, do it.

It is likely that a call for funds will go out in the near future. Bethel insiders and CO's are already circulating the idea that the end is aligned with Russia's attack on Ukraine. They won't put it in print, but manipulation at the grass roots level is starting. Keep your senses.

40

Congregation in PA sues over mandatory reporting

by Corney in

ivy hill congregation of jehovah's witnesses is currently suing the pa department of human services.

it requests "a declaration that its elders are entitled to" clergy privilege, or, in the alternative,.

to the extent that the clergyman privilege is determined to exclude its elders on the basis that they are "members of [a] religious organization[] in which members other than the leader thereof are deemed clergymen or ministers," the court declare the statute to be unconstitutional.

ThomasMore

I am stunned that Watchtower attorneys thought they could sue without standing. This confirms to me that they lack credible counsel in their dept now.

As for the clergy claim, JWs have boasted for many decades that they have no clergy. In the ROC, they tried to reverse course but got called out on it. In other cases, they also dragged in that claim and got shot down by the opposition. By now they should know that their published material will always be used against them when they make that claim.

I hear that 2 of their attorneys are facing loss of license to practice due to misconduct in a case (in the US of course). We shall see what the outcome is and how it affects morale/actions. Should be interesting.

17

How Murderers In the Congregation are handled

by blondie in

jw
friends

i don't have the link but i am trying to post this, this is from a previous post on jwn.

watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc. dear brothers:.. we received your letter of december 17 in which you inquire about handling a situation involving a brother who has been guilty of serious violation of the law in the past.. you explained that you received information indicating that this brother ?committed several murders and crimes before his baptism.

you ask if law obligates some action on our part.

ThomasMore

I am appalled but not shocked. We had a similar situation and handled it the same way. Hopefully he didn't kill anyone else. It is a hand-wringer.

Watchtower claims clergy ecumenical privilege but denies that it has a clergy, except when they need the title.

21

Vicarious Liability: Court of Appeal dismisses appeal from religious organisation following sexual assault

by yalbmert99 in

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=d0a1ca63-2027-4702-9f6d-3c3da5fd9c5f.

ThomasMore

This is not a black and white issue. If for example, a policeman harms someone on his lunch break, the municipality could be included in a civil suit if the policeman was using his authority as a policeman when he hurt someone, even in a small way. Also, if the Dept. knew that he had a propensity for misconduct, they will certainly be named in a civil suit.

As for offending JW elders, often they have used their title and privilege to position themselves so as to hurt a member of the flock. In the case of the 2 elders in Illinois, they were acting in an investigative capacity when they told a little girl and her mother that they should remain silent about the rape she endured by a male member of the congregation. Subsequently, the Service Dept and Legal Dept offered incorrect (and hurtful advice) that allowed the rapist to continue to rape the young girl for 12 more years - that's right - 12 more years.

The court found the elders guilty for not reporting, and it is very interested in the attorney at Watchtower who dispensed incorrect legal advice across state lines. It is likely that he/she will be disbarred and Watchtower will pay dearly ($$$$$) for the incompetence when a civil suit (which is a foregone conclusion) is filed.

I would not be quick to let Watchtower off the hook for the misdeeds of elders and ministerial servants. In each case, it is essential to determine if/how they used their authority in the commission of the offense.

28

Shocking Letter Reveals Jehovah's Witnesses True Beliefs! - YouTube 'xjw curious'

by Mace.Bean in

youtube's 'xjw curious,' pete corbeil, reads proselytizing letter written by a pimo jw who simply shares current watchtower teachings like no other jw.

use google drive link below to print your own copies of this letter.

(114) shocking letter reveals jehovah's witnesses true beliefs!

ThomasMore

Fulano - all of it since it is accurate.

Carla - Pete says it was a PIMO (so you are correct since PIMI JWs consider PIMOs to be apostates).

A realtor once told me that houses in dire state of disrepair are best sold with the lights down low. That is the case with JWs selling their brand of truth. When the light is shined on it, all the falsehoods and control mechanisms are revealed.

Watchtower fears that interested ones will dive into the unscriptural teachings they promote and recognize them for what they are. For this reason, they are redacting former writing as fast as they can in the hopes that older printed publications will become too scarce for fact-checking, This is a mark of dishonesty that should be an immediate heads up for sincere seekers of truth.

134

How far do we get away from 1914

by PimoElder in

how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

ThomasMore

scholar JW

You are correct in that nothing of Biblical significance occurred in 1934, You neglected to acknowledge that 1914 brought world war but nothing else connected to Watchtowers convoluted interpretation of those events - now 108 years ago. Although I often admire the insight you have for scriptural matters, you seem to have a blinder when it comes to 1914. I can certainly acknowledge that I could be wrong, but I actually do not think that anything I once believed as taught by WTS is correct. Perhaps we should just take Jesus at his word and agree that since no man knows the day or the hour, it is presumptuous to teach others that somehow we do.

I will wait patiently on the true God and welcome his decision to glorify himself in a righteous and just manner. In the meantime, I will not attempt to force others to believe in a moving target of bible interpretations.

Me - a man made of dust.

134

How far do we get away from 1914

by PimoElder in

how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

ThomasMore

Fisherman,

Actually Watchtower only uses "circa" when referring to when war broke out in heaven and Satan was ousted. They started acknowledging that "about" was better to say when it was pointed out that WW1 started in the Summer of 1914, before their interpretation of October as the end of the gentile times and when Satan was ousted from heaven to the vicinity of the earth. This was a problem so now they just say that war in heaven could have broken out before the gentile times ended, before the Summer when the war broke out. Disconnecting the 2 events helps explain the 6+ months needed for Satan to 'land' on earth and foment enough discord to start a world war.

Nevertheless, most reputable historians say 587 BCE was the actual year of Jerusalem's destruction - not 607 BCE. That would make 1934 the momentous year. But you already know that and have tried unsuccessfully on this forum to redact what you must surely know to be the truth. But you are consistent so there's that...