yesterday i had an interesting visitor—my long-time school friend.
we both studied with jws together, and he progressed to dedication and baptism whereas i stopped before the final step and got transferred to another place.
after the routine conversations, he said: “you know how much your family members long to see you take up the truth ….. before it is too late, i would suggest you start tasting jehovah.”.
Cofty: What do you mean by "science is the religion of adults"?
An average believer (child) “knows” (not the real knowledge) that what his religion teaches is “The Truth” (in inverted coma)
On the other hand adults know (really know) that what science teaches is The Truth (not in inverted coma).
It is in this “Science is the religion of adults.”
yesterday i had an interesting visitor—my long-time school friend.
we both studied with jws together, and he progressed to dedication and baptism whereas i stopped before the final step and got transferred to another place.
after the routine conversations, he said: “you know how much your family members long to see you take up the truth ….. before it is too late, i would suggest you start tasting jehovah.”.
cofty,
I was putting it in layman's language, also I had to bring it in brief what Richard Dawkins says in very lengthy details, hence I thought of presenting it in a picturesque mode (though I know it would look awkward to the advanced learners of Evolution)
at the meeting today, we were reading the watchtower and this elder apologetically said to such a degree in regards to romans 5:12 that "we humans are not worthy of any mercy from jehovah.
we shouldn't even have free will because we can't possibly do anything good enough to please jehovah.
we don't even deserve life because of sin.
When people are repeatedly told Romans 5:12 they mistake it as truth, and begin to believe that ‘we are sinners, we have a limit …’ hence they do not even feel that change is possible. James Belasco and Ralph Stayer wrote in their 1994 book Flight of the Buffalo: “Change is hard because people overestimate the value of what they have – and underestimate the value of what they may gain by giving that up.”
at the meeting today, we were reading the watchtower and this elder apologetically said to such a degree in regards to romans 5:12 that "we humans are not worthy of any mercy from jehovah.
we shouldn't even have free will because we can't possibly do anything good enough to please jehovah.
we don't even deserve life because of sin.
While expounding the meaning of the expression God created man in His image, Ecclesiasticus 15:15 says “If you choose to do good, you can” and you are “able to perform acceptable faithfulness.”
This shows OT prophets had totally different concepts which are in direct conflict with NT teachings. This explains why such books were excluded from Canon.
yesterday i had an interesting visitor—my long-time school friend.
we both studied with jws together, and he progressed to dedication and baptism whereas i stopped before the final step and got transferred to another place.
after the routine conversations, he said: “you know how much your family members long to see you take up the truth ….. before it is too late, i would suggest you start tasting jehovah.”.
Yesterday I had an interesting visitor—my long-time school friend. We both studied with JWs together, and he progressed to dedication and baptism whereas I stopped before the final step and got transferred to another place. After the routine conversations, he said: “You know how much your family members long to see you take up the truth ….. Before it is too late, I would suggest you start tasting Jehovah.”
Then I had to give him a piece of my mind: “I see religion as the science of children; and science as the religion of adults.”
He interrupted: “I disagree with your description of religions as the ‘science of children’ because religion starts where science ends or finds it difficult to explain profound things.”
I said: “But truth is that religious readers publicly admit that they do not have answers to simple questions. When asked why do we die? Buddha answered “get me some mustard-seed from a house where no one has lost a child, husband, parent, or friend. ... And there was no such house which he thought is the self-explanatory answer! With regard to a certain blind man, why is he born with such disability?” Jesus said his blindness “happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.” It shows not only he did not have the answer but also how God-dishonoring the answer was as though God does not have any other means to ‘display his works.’ (John 9:1-3) Even a child would feel offended in such a callous reply.
He swiftly interrupted: “It actually means”
I said: “I know your WT answer for that, and also know the answers other sects give—yet they are all mere attempts to divert our attention from the ignorance hidden in the answer. This is why I said I see religion as the science of children; science as the religion of adults. Science explains better.
Without directly quoting from The Selfish Gene (by Richard Dawkins), yet using some thoughts from it I tried to neutralize more important aspect of statement: “before-it-is-too late” threat, and told him: Life found the best way, through countless years worth of experimentation, to keep DNA molecules alive. In other words, countless years ago, soon after certain molecules “learned” (via experimentation) how to replicate themselves, then when conditions began to change, some of the molecules learned (again by experience) that they could continue to exist and replicate if they encased themselves in a bag full of the original organic goo – provided that needed nutrients could come in and resulting wastes could pass out through the cell’s bounding membrane, while still protecting the molecule’s method of reproduction. Those that didn’t learn this technique didn’t continue. That means there is a well-established law in place (both in micro and macro system of things) which makes God’s action/intervention whatsoever unnecessary. Things are left to run their natural course. God’s intervention in between accomplishes nothing. For example, God brought in a new world after destroying an old wicked world of Noah’s time. It did not benefit even Noah himself. Immediately, that new world also became worse than the old world because Noah got drunk and cursed his own son and his future generations to eternal slavery, and soon his grandson became “a mighty hunter before the LORD.” That means entropy is the norm, and so is the restoration. (Mathew 13:33) Hence your threat “before it is too late” makes no sense because in the big picture things are left to run their natural course with God playing no part whatsoever. Sometimes we get sleep when we want; other times we do not get sleep when we want; and other times we fall asleep when we are badly in need of being alert—like sleeping during the meeting in the Kingdom Hall or during a seminar. Thus life is both choices and chance events. Let things happen as it should!
It seems he did not want to get discouraged further, and said: “I do not want to engage in any sort of theological discussion. I just wanted to convey to you your family’s deep concern about you.”
does this make any sense whatsoever ?
isnt jesus christ the king ?why the need for 144000 king priests to help him ?.
is he not up for the job?
I agree with smiddy--angels suffered more than humans because of Satan. One angel came even to minister Jesus during his last ordeal whereas no disciples, no recipients of his countless miracles, no one from the group whom he resurrected came in support of him when he needed it the most.
satan loves his own people and hates those who do not share his views, hence only he can use shunning as a weapon.. on the contrary, god is love (agape = unconditional love), cannot have his own people.
(mathew 5:44-48).
all the accounts not in conformity with this principle originated from cleric’s pen (jeremiah 7:31; 8:8).
satan loves his own people and hates those who do not share his views, hence only he can use shunning as a weapon.. on the contrary, god is love (agape = unconditional love), cannot have his own people.
(mathew 5:44-48).
all the accounts not in conformity with this principle originated from cleric’s pen (jeremiah 7:31; 8:8).
Satan loves his own people and hates those who do not share his views, hence only he can use shunning as a weapon.
On the contrary, God is love (agape = unconditional love), cannot have His own people. (Mathew 5:44-48). All the accounts not in conformity with this principle originated from cleric’s pen (Jeremiah 7:31; 8:8)
what i sense from the conversations of my family members and relatives who are jws is that at least some jws are not as zealous before with regard to the major subjects such as “sanctification of god’s name,” “vindication of his sovereignty” etc.
they begin to feel that such subjects are imaginary issues.. this is a good sign.
it shows people are worried about their own day-to-day worries.
ToesUp,
You put nicely.
If you’re in pain, I trust you agree that a “useful goal” would be to reduce and then eliminate your pain. That would be your own goal. But then, if you saw that others had similar pains, wouldn’t you conclude that another useful goal (of yours) – and assuming that you had a reasonable chance of achieving it – would be to help reduce the similar pains felt by others, to help your fellow humans?
does this make any sense whatsoever ?
isnt jesus christ the king ?why the need for 144000 king priests to help him ?.
is he not up for the job?
Dearyweather, Let it be "comparison between angels and humans."
Yet the implied truth is that God and Jesus need help from "experienced humans" which actually dishonor them.
