Posts by GodBeliever

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

For there is no good tree that bears bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree that bears good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit. For people do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. The good person out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil person out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.
Luke 6:43‭-‬45
Truly, truly I say to you, the one who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I am going to the Father.
John 14:12
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. Beloved, I urge you as foreigners and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts, which wage war against the soul. Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God on the day of visitation.
1 Peter 2:9‭-‬12

What use is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? In the same way, faith also, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. But are you willing to acknowledge, you foolish person, that faith without works is useless? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
James 2:14‭-‬20‭, ‬22‭-‬24

Faith and good works are inseparable.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

GodBeliever

I believe all to be corect.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

GodBeliever

We just can go on and on like this. I told you what I believe and ultimately is God through Jesus who will judge anyone according to their standing.

The Jewish people were waiting fo Messiah but when Jesus came they did not believe that he was the one. He proclaimed the message of the kingdom that was about to come but they rejected that message. You know what happened to them.

Let's say hypothetically that Jesus returned as king in heaven and He moved some honest people and commissioned them to announce the newly established kingdom. What will happen to those of christianity who do not believe and reject Jesus's second coming. Are they not in the same position as the Jewish nation who by the way they still waiting for Messiah?

"I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?” Luke 18:8

For the Lord will rise up as at Mount Perazim, He will be stirred up as in the Valley of Gibeon, To do His task, His unusual task, And to work His work, His extraordinary work. And now do not carry on as scoffers, Or your shackles will be made stronger; For I have heard from the Lord God of armies Of decisive destruction on all the earth. Listen and hear my voice, Pay attention and hear my words. Does the farmer plow continually to plant seed? Does he continually turn and break up his ground?" Isaiah 28:21‭-‬24

"Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?" Isaiah 53:1

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:12‭-‬14

I don't see there will be another gospel preached from now on. We are at the moment in time when people moving away from everything is God.

As for Jehovah's witnesses literature I only read anything until 1949. Although there is some truth in it after that, I believe they started falling away from the truth as the bible predicted and ultimately they have become the evil servant they are today.

"It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority was given to him over every tribe, people, language, and nation. All who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written since the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slaughtered. If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints."

Revelation 13:7‭-‬8‭, ‬10

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

GodBeliever

Vanderhoven,

"Looking at the Watchtower now:

Everything is about power and control of the organization run by the evil slave who has written himself into the salvation formula, that denigrates the Bible, elevating himself above scripture, destroying families over extra-biblical commands of men and preaches an unrelatable Jesus and preaches a non-salvivic gospel turning many of their adherents into theocratic deceivers. And whoever challenges this evil slave gets punished."

I agree with some of your statemens. That's why I post here. However, I have different reasons. They started all this deception around 1954. Before that I believe they were a community of Christians that have a clear insight of bible truths. They failed to predict accurately some prophecies because it was not given to humans to know when the end comes. Even some of the apostles believed that Jesus will return in their lifetime but that didn't make them false profets.

https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/worship-jesus.php

This denying of Jesus started in 1954. Desfeloshiping started back then as well as many other wrong teachings.

"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 2 Peter 2:1‭-‬3 KJV

Before 1954 the teachings about Jesus, were different.

But if that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is not coming for a long time,’ and he begins to beat his fellow slaves, and he eats and drinks with those habitually drunk; then the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect, and at an hour that he does not know, and he will cut him in two and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.Matthew 24:48‭-‬51

Yes, I agree they mistreat their fellow believers and they are rather a high control organisation. This makes them evil slave. It wasn't like that in the beginning.

No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. Then that lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will eliminate with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not accept the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.2 Thessalonians 2:3‭-‬4‭, ‬8‭-‬12

"Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy that person; for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.1 Corinthians 3:16‭-‬17

All this facts and prophecies rather approve than disprove that they had the truth.

The man of sin can only come from amongst Jesus's church like Judah and they enter God's temple. The temple of God is where his church is. Although I do not look up to Watchtower as an organisation, I believe the faithful slave that was chosen by Jesus at his second coming in heaven, used it to preach the truths of the newly established kingdom. It is yet to happen on earth as the Lord's prayer says.

A lot of what they teach at this moment I believe is false.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

GodBeliever

Hi Vanderhoven

Thank you for sharing your beliefs. I was curious about many religios and I have come in contact with this understandings before.

"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. .Matthew 24:21‭-‬22. You belief probably is that the earth will burn with literall fire at Jesus's second coming and all Christians will be raptured to heaven. Everyone else will die . Meanwhile God will create another earth, Christians will return, the just und the unjust will be resurrected on that paradise earth for life and judgement. In the end after the thousand years all that will not be faithful will go down in the second death and there will not be few.

"When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:87-‬10‭, ‬13‭-‬18

Your beliefs are very similar to Jws, so acussing them of the same things you believe is not fair.
But we are missing the bigger picture here. The real problem with christianity started with Jesus and the apostles. Not being under the control of the state( the roman empire) christianity was a serious issue and needed to be dealt with. Back then Christians didn't want to have anything to do with the oppressive roman empire. And they found a refuge in the new faith by holding on to Jesus's commandments.
And Jesus said to them, “Pay to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” Pay to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; respect to whom respect; honor to whom honor.Romans 13:7. "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world."
John 17:14‭, ‬16 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this purpose I have been born, and for this I have come into the world: to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to My voice.”
John 18:36‭-‬37.

The problem was that people worshipped caesar as god too, so he wanted not only what was his, but he wanted what was God's as well. He wanted to be loved by his subjects. It was a big thing to be loved by the masses in roman times. Jesus was seen as a threat. So the persecution of Christians started.

It didn't work out and christianity couldn't be stopped but grew into a social phenomenon. It was emperor Constantine who came to the idea to make christianity as the official religion of the Roman empire. So it worked. The roman empire through Vatican managed to rule the world for more than 1000 years. It was not until the renaissance when people started to question the right of Vatican to rule under the divine right. (Medici family, philipIV of france, Martin Luther, and king Henry VIII of England and some protestant priests who translated the bible in English.) It was the french revolution who contested the right of kings to rule under divine right as well. All these weakened the catholic church and we live in a time when they almost have not power at all. However, the modern state learned from that and incorporated the Christian religion, so they can have Devine authority over people (soft power).

In the last century Rutherford came with the idea that the governments of this world are not appointed by God. He together with a few others were imprisoned for sedition. The catholic church was very angry with JWs because they tried contesting their ingenious invention where christianity was incorporated in the state, and they constantly pursued an aggressive action against them. This was when all the trouble for jws started and it not stopped until early sixties when they changed the Romans 13 interpretation. From there on Watchtower made efforts to reconcile with secular leaders. They became state approved religious organisation. They became associated as NGO with the UN, they appointed a representative at OSCE. They convinced most western democracies of their good intentions and they have become widely accepted. It took a bit longer to convince France, but in 2009 even there Watchtower received legal approval.

What can I say is that everything is about power and control of the state. Who dare to challenge that gets punished. Otherwise nobody cares what someone believes as long as it does not bother Caesar. Probably you don't like Jehovah's witnesses because they believe they are the only ones to be saved. If you are confident with your standing what does it matter that much. If people are honest God can save them just by reading the bible but only with His help.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

GodBeliever

Hi Vanderhoven,

I am a bit confused with what you believe because you keep pointing out basic bible truths most Christians know but you don't actually say who is going to live or die. You accuse JWs of saying that billions will die in Armageddon but you're saying that people are saved by faith alone. What about billions of people who do not believe in Jesus's sacrifice. What is going to happen to them considering they will refuse to believe even after their resurrection?

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

GodBeliever

Hi Vanderhoven,

What I can say is that late 19 century, beginning of 20th century it was a massive transformation in the whole world. Cultural, educational industrial revolutions. It was something that the humanity haven't experienced before. The gospel was preached in the whole world by different protestant denominations. We witnessed 2 world wars, a great depression, Spanish flu who affected mainly young healthy people and literally stopped the first world war. Whether all these coincidences with Jesus second coming and satan's end in heaven is up to everyone to decide.

I believe Jesus have chosen a faithful slave for a special purpose to announce his kingdom. I don't think there is an identifiable faithful slave today as the preaching was done and now we are at this point:And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. There is parable in the bible where it said that the door will be shut. And also Jesus said But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matt 24:22-24

I believe that lately God permitted that evil slave to conduct a deceptive work when the true preaching was complete.

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God (replacing Jesus). Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

2 Thessalonians 2:3‭-‬6‭, ‬9‭-‬12

If we go by what the bible says the temple of God is where his church is: " Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." So the "man of sin" can only enter where Christ church is at the time of the end.

1 Corinthians 3:16‭-‬17

I believe the sabbath day coincidences with a period before the great tribulation when preaching activity will be stopped or hijacked by the man of sin. And the winter coincidences with the the start of the great tribulation. Throughout this period is still possible to flea but will be hard to find the right path. However, sincere people who want to practice pure worship by keeping themselves unspotted from the world and who do not receive the sign of the beast will be given an opportunity. God is faithful to his word and he will give every human being the opportunity to find him.

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

GodBeliever

They do not represent the kingdom anymore. Although they still holding some basic truths they spoiled the pure worship. They did not stand by Jesus commandment "Render to Cæsar the things that are Cæsar's, and to God the things that are God's." I believe that all religions did the same thing.

Does the nation of Israel still represent God? Does the catholic church still represent God?

The Watchtower abandoned Jesus and have become part of the world.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2 Peter 2:1‭-‬2

https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/worship-jesus.php

They have become state approved religion organisation and they can't practice pure worship as they are not unspotted from the world. They even receive state subsidies.

They praised the united nations for keeping peace in the world and were part of the organisation for a while.

The food they put on God's table ( their teachings) is not clean anymore.“ ‘A son honors his father, and a servant his master. Then if I am a father, where is My honor? And if I am a master, where is My respect?’ says the Lord of armies to you, the priests who despise My name! But you say, ‘How have we despised Your name?’ You are presenting defiled food upon My altar. But you say, ‘How have we defiled You?’ In that you say, ‘The table of the Lord is to be despised.’ And when you present a blind animal for sacrifice, is it not evil? Or when you present a lame or sick animal, is it not evil? So offer it to your governor! Would he be pleased with you, or would he receive you kindly?” says the Lord of armies. “But you are profaning it by your saying, ‘The table of the Lord is defiled, and as for its fruit, its food is to be despised.’ You also say, ‘See, how tiresome it is!’ And you view it as trivial,” says the Lord of armies, “and you bring what was taken by robbery and what is lame or sick; so you bring the offering! Should I accept it from your hand?” says the Lord.

Malachi 1:6‭-‬8‭, ‬12‭-‬13

And is more. Maybe another time.

I said before. Nobody has to work for God in order to be saved. Salvation as God decided, comes through Jesus blood in the first place and through faith. In the thousand year reign and beyond other sheep and anyone else coming back to life will only need to obey God and will be enough "by loving the Lord your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding close to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, so that you may live in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.” Deuteronomy 30:20.

Lucifer and Adam were perfect and were granted life as long as they were faithful to God and yet they rebelled.

I believe what the Bible teaches. Everyone that practice pure worship as Jesus showed us will live. I have chosen this path because I believe is true. Who will live and die is not for me to say, I leave that to God's decision. "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

John 4:21‭-‬24 KJV

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

GodBeliever

Nobody works for Watchtower. Watchtower was just as publishing Corporation and faithful people used it for preaching the Gospel. Nowadays it seems that God permitted to fall into the evil slave hands . We are loyal to Jehovah and Christ only because we are :"looking only at Jesus, the originator and perfecter of the faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God" and also "For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

Hebrews 12:2,18‭, ‬22‭-‬24

Even if the other sheep war not given " clothing of fine linen" as the 144000 they can stay before God. "Then one of the elders responded, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” I said to him, “My Lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.

Revelation 7:13‭-‬15 NASB2020

I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have placed before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, by loving the Lord your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding close to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, so that you may live in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”

Deuteronomy 30:19‭-‬20

By constantly obeying God they can live through Christ blood.

Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they do not make you useless nor unproductive in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the one who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. Therefore, brothers and sisters, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choice of you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

2 Peter 1:5‭-‬11

71

Wrong Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

we brainstormed a while back on this forum and pooled our knowledge on how to recognize false religion.

i think the list is worth reviewing and adding to if possible.

please feel free to correct and or add insights of your own to this list:.

GodBeliever

Vanderhoven,

a. Jesus alone

b. by grace alone

c. through faith alone

d. in His blood alone

You identified correctly in your 4 points how our salvation comes. However, if anyone willingly submitting God's will he/she will receive "His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads."Revelation 14:1, and become a minister of God. Paul mentioned that once you join God's kingdom under Christ you enter a fight against evil invisible forces. When anyone enter an organisation he /she is expected to serve that organisation accordingly.

Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.James 1:12 NASB2020

And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.

Revelation 12:11 NASB2020

For no one can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, each one’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each one’s work. If anyone’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet only so as through fire.

1 Corinthians 3:11‭-‬15 NASB2020

“Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts on them, will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and its collapse was great.”

Matthew 7:24‭-‬27 NASB2020

For this reason it says, “Awake, sleeper, And arise from the dead, And Christ will shine on you.” So then, be careful how you walk, not as unwise people but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.

Ephesians 5:14‭-‬17

Therefore, my beloved brothers and sisters, be firm, immovable, always excelling in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:58 NASB2020

“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.

Matthew 20:1 NASB2020