I only stood during the National anthem if I felt like it. I never stood during the pledge of allegiance. I have lung disease so I have a reason not to stand sometimes. But now that I am out I will stand for the National Anthem. But I don't sing it and I will never say the Pledge of Allegiance. Now, more than ever do I believe that doing so is wrong. When I was in, it was for my religion. Now, it is because anything that represents our country can be used in really wrong ways. So, I don't use representations of our country as stand-ins for my patriotism.
jwundubbed
JoinedPosts by jwundubbed
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28
When You Were A JW Did You Ever Stand For The National Anthem?
by minimus inas a witness i always found a way to not have to embarrass myself by sitting down for the national anthem.. i’m curious.
how many of you stood up for the patriotic song?.
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36
Kleenex Head Covering
by jwundubbed ingrowing up a woman in the cult was pretty bleak.
most of the adult women i knew were either depressed sad women or an embarrassment to me.
i was typical kid in that regard.
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jwundubbed
@Butyoucanneverleave, I think the reasoning may be that when a sister answers or gives a talk (as part of the theocratic ministry school) they are learning rather than teaching. But your point is sound.
Why then, don't the sisters have to cover their heads when preaching or having a bible study? And why, for the love of God, if a woman must cover her head... why aren't women taught to carry head coverings that give them just a tiny amount of dignity. Why can't a woman have any dignity at all?
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Kleenex Head Covering
by jwundubbed ingrowing up a woman in the cult was pretty bleak.
most of the adult women i knew were either depressed sad women or an embarrassment to me.
i was typical kid in that regard.
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jwundubbed
@St.George of England & @neat blue dog,
Well, that is the policy to be sure. But you know people go beyond the policy all the time. You know how people will talk about what a person should do in a hypothetical manner, urge people to go the step farther, but then tell them it is up to their own conscience? The women I knew were compelled by the men around them to take it further. The congregation where I saw this happen the most often was a very spiteful congregation. Elder's wives were worse than their husbands and there was always someone watching. Worse if you were leading a group of children, you never knew what innocent comment from a child would come back to bit you in the arse.
@tiki,
I remember as a child believing that as a girl I was the absolutely lowest of human creation.
When I was in it, I never realized consciously how badly women were treated. I never wanted anything more than to be a mother and a wife. But get out into the real world and I can't get a great job. Even having been to college, I lack a lot of skills that help a person get a decent job (like the interview/negotiation) but more importantly I lack a very certain confidence in myself as a capable person. In every other way I have great self-confidence. And in specifics I know that I am a capable person with a lot to offer the working world. But I can't seem to get a job above a certain level even though I have the training for it. And when I really think about it a lot of ways in which we were treated as girls and women in the cult start to come up. I don't think I realized how much it all effected me.
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Do you believe in god?
by freakyAL ini used to be a staunch believer in god.
maybe its technology and science advancing so much thats got me doubting idk.
do you believe in god?
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jwundubbed
Yes.
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36
Kleenex Head Covering
by jwundubbed ingrowing up a woman in the cult was pretty bleak.
most of the adult women i knew were either depressed sad women or an embarrassment to me.
i was typical kid in that regard.
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jwundubbed
Growing up a woman in the cult was pretty bleak. Most of the adult women I knew were either depressed sad women or an embarrassment to me. I was typical kid in that regard. I was atypical in that I had critical parents and my mother was 'annointed' and also crazy (mentally ill). Suffice it to say my relationship with my mother and how I saw her was complicated.
From time to time I will think of the weird stuff people did in the cult and it almost always makes me laugh. But a few weeks ago I had a different experience to remembering an old embarrassment.
Women are never supposed to lead. But if they do and if there is a single man present (even a baby) they have to cover their heads. It wasn't only my mother that would grab a Kleenex to cover her head with when the necessity came to lead. I saw lots of other women do it as well. When it was my mother I chalked it up to one of those crazy things she did and I felt really embarrassed. But when other women did it, I just didn't understand why.
A few weeks ago I made a flippant off-hand comment about how I would never wear a Kleenex to cover my head and I just started crying. The comment was made out of the context of the cult and I thought it would be funny but it just wasn't. Since then I have thought about the whole situation and my reaction to it.
How humiliating it must be for a woman who has daughters to have to cover her head with a Kleenex because there is an infant boy in the group and she has to cover her head in order to lead or pray. What a horrible message to send your daughters that you are so unworthy that you don't even carry a head covering for just such a situation and instead have to use a Kleenex. Jehovah's Witnesses don't use head coverings. I knew a few women who had them but it went against the uniform as far as I ever knew. To be so subjugated that you won't even carry a piece of cloth... To have to subjugate yourself to that extent because a single male infant is in the room... That using a Kleenex, and all the humiliation that entails, is preferable to using a piece of cloth and giving a woman any measure of dignity.
It just hurts to know that I and so many other women went through that. It was so subtle but so incredibly indicative of how the cult views women. It is such a very clear picture of the systemic abuse and bigotry against women. And the fact that it took me 21 years to process that tiny little part of my formative years... it's a little overwhelming.
I feel very sad when I think about it. I don't mind feeling sad over it. But I did want to share my moment of clarity with someone. Who else would understand such a thing?
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Is it better to have a false hope than have no hope?
by sinboi injust got the news.
a very close classmate of mine met an accident and died last nite.... just 4 months after i da'd from the borg.. if i am still in, i wouldn't be so sad.
he has the hope of resurrection.. but now that i am out, i realise that resurrection in paradise is all bullshit.. so what's next?
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jwundubbed
Not knowing what to have hope in or not knowing what you have hope for is not the same thing as having no hope at all. Now you are in a great place because your options are wide open and there are so many things to hope for.
Also, not knowing if there is an afterlife doesn't mean that there definitely isn't one. There is no reason that you can't have hope to meet your friend in an afterlife. The only person who will hold you back from that hope is you.
I'm sorry for your loss.
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Did you leave the JW RECENTLY? Really? Recently? WTF were you thinking?
by The Real Edward Gentry innot to be overly harsh...but if you just left, what the hell were you thinking?
between 1995 and now, you never did an internet search of "jehovahs-witness" or "watchtower"?
good god.
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jwundubbed
I didn't leave the JWs because their doctrine was wrong. I left because I realized that everyone I had grown up with really would behave the way others had always behaved before them. There is no way that I could have known that until it happened. I left about 20 years ago or so... so the internet wasn't a great resource back then. But I had heard of Ray Franz and his book. I never looked it up because I didn't care about that. My parents gave me all the critical thinking skills that I ever needed. So every time 'new light' came out I knew it was all BS. My family was constantly debunking the doctrine and the policies.
Most of the people that I know who made the choice to stay made that choice because of their family. Logic has little to do with the choice to be cut off from your family, your friends, and everyone you have ever loved. What people were thinking was legitimate even if you don't get it.
And yes, your words were very harsh. Your point in using everyone who left recently to boost your own ego is what exactly? What is so bad about your life that you have to put down other people to feel good about your own choices? I don't see what could possibly make it worthwhile to voice your ridiculous assessment of people who made different choices than your own. I think... maybe, you need to go get some help. Get some therapy. And remember that just because you are writing words into a little box on a computer screen, that doesn't mean that there aren't very real people with feelings reading your asinine commentary.
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THIS Is How JWs Feel About The Cut In Magazines And Content
by pale.emperor ini asked the question on quora "how do jehovah's witnesses feel about the announcement that the public edition of the watchtower and awake!
magazine is being reduced to just 3 issues a year and the number of books, tracts, and online content are being discontinued?".
https://www.quora.com/how-do-jehovahs-witnesses-feel-about-the-announcement-that-the-public-edition-of-the-watchtower-and-awake-magazine-is-being-reduced-to-just-3-issues-a-year-and-the-number-of-books-tracts-and-online-content-are-being-discontinued.
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jwundubbed
To be fair.... If I were still in I would be super excited about all the choices they have made which reduce publications and make it easier to do way less physical activity for the cult. I would have been apathetic with slight delight at the wi-fi and iPad availability... as that would probably make it harder to sleep during the meetings... but easier to find something interesting to do when I couldn't sleep.
And to be fair... if I were giving an answer on a social media forum like Qora - I would probably make my answer look a whole lot more spiritual than it actually is.
So, maybe they are uber-dubs. Or maybe they are slightly more normal people who understand that there are always other JW watching.
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How Many Witnesses Would Really Take Blood?
by minimus inup until the very end, my mother refused blood.
it didn't matter if it was a blurred line or not, the bible says "no blood"!
i wonder if she was in the minority, in her thinking.
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jwundubbed
I don't really know why but the JW take the Blood issue way more seriously than any other teaching from the WT. I have seen not few cases of people who were disfellowshipped or inactive who didn't take blood. - Ray Frankz
I've thought a lot about the blood issue and there is a conversation that is always missing when this topic comes up. Everyone talks about the whole idea in terms of teachings and policies. But, I was born into the cult... so what I learned wasn't always about teachings and policies. And I don't think that you have to have been born into the cult to have some of the more subtle understandings of what we were taught about blood.
It isn't just a religious stance. It isn't just an ethical choice because people are being loyal to their religion. We were taught in no uncertain terms that blood is DIRTY! and BAD! When I had been out of the cult for about/almost 10 years I gave blood for the first time. I paid attention to everything. I asked questions. But as I was sitting there watching the blood bag move and fill with my blood I was confused to realize that my relationship with blood isn't just about some policy that I was flouting. It wasn't just about the fear that God would smite me for disobeying him on something really important. I could see the blood and it was just a red liquid. But the thought of getting blood on me squicks me out because it is so dirty. Like dirt and evil combined in a really gross way... not so much a scary way. The way that I feel about blood is really confusing. The thought of having someone else's gross blood in me, mingling with my gross blood is so disgusting. I have a visceral reaction just to the thought of it.
I know people who enjoy playing with blood. I don't get it so don't ask me why. Logically and technically I know that there is nothing inherently wrong with blood. But I can't watch them play with it. And it has nothing to do with thinking about blood-born pathogens or diseases. In my mind, blood is inherently dirty. It is just like really watery red mud.
I know that I am not the only one who feels this way about blood. I also know I am one of the few people who took the time to analyse their feelings about blood to this extent. But this idea is never talked about when the issue of blood transfusions comes up. We weren't just taught that it was morally wrong. We were taught that blood is dirty in a really wrong way and that definitely has an effect on some peoples' choice to take, or not to take, a blood transfusion.
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Apostasy: The Movie - Directed by Daniel Kokotajlo
by darkspilver indaniel kokotajlo's new film apostasy has it's world premiere at the toronto international film festival in september 2017. apostasy.
family and faith come into conflict for two jehovah’s witness sisters in manchester, when one is condemned for fornication and the other pressured to shun her sibling.. this fresh, unadorned first feature from director dan kokotajlo carries an unmistakable note of authenticity from its very first scenes.
set in a jehovah's witness community in england, the film's strength and power lies in its directness.. apostasy depicts the growing rift in a family — a mother and two daughters — who are rigorously devoted to their religion.
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jwundubbed
Okay, how do you find out if this movie will be playing anywhere near you?