Posts by jwundubbed

32

A gospel of LOVE or a gospel of HATE?

by JanH in

jw
friends

" (the watchtower, 10/1 1961, p. 596; bold added).

" (the watchtower, 11/15 1952, p. 703; bold added).

" (the watchtower, 10/1 1952, p. 599; bold added).

Well, they certainly taught you how to make an argument. Ask a question and then tell us what the answer is... really drum that point of view into us and don't offer any other points of view. You learned well, grasshopper.

29

Telling People You Used To Be A JW

by JW_Rogue in

since i faded i've told a few people at work about having been raised in this organization but i found that most people don't really get what it is like at all.

they just focus on not celebrating holidays as if that is the worst thing about growing up jw.

i didn't explain much because it's too much for most people to handle.

It typically comes up for me around Christmas time. I still don't celebrate Christmas. I do celebrate Halloween... but kind of all year long. I love creepy and weird things. Lots of people do, but it confuses them when I don't celebrate Christmas. I'm happy to tell people I was raised in a cult. I don't tell them it was the JWs because then they argue if the JW are a cult. I don't need to have that conversation with people who have no idea that those annoying people who bother than on the weekends often also scope out their houses to see which ones they want to live in during the New System. It sounds pretty creepy when you state it like that and it doesn't sound good to people. But I still don't want to have that conversation.

I tell people I was a JW when I think they will be receptive to hearing what it really is... all the freakin weirdness! I don't worry about telling Christians specifically... because the Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians. I am sure to tell them that. It's right in the name for Christ's sake. Christians are literally 'followers of Christ', we were Jehovah's witnesses... not followers of Christ. And we only ever celebrated his death, not his life. If given a choice to follow Christ or to follow Jehovah.... you know which one the JWs would follow and it wouldn't be Christ. Therefore... we were never Christians. We were Christian Non-Christians. We were non-Christians who thought we were Christians. Talk about cognitive dissonance!

I don't typically go into all that for anyone unless they express an interest or start a debate, but I thought you might like to hear a different perspective. I know, not many other ex-JWs think the way that I do... but at least I have logic on my side. You might not like my perspective but it isn't illogical.

For me, I never left the Watchtower. It's weird to me that people think of the JWs as synonymous to 'the Watchtower'. To me, that's just a magazine. I always liked the Awake! better. But I didn't get baptized to a magazine or a building or whatever. For me, leaving the cult was not like pulling a tree out of the ground. It was like leaving a cult. I had to deprogram myself and that is particularly hard when the professionals don't agree that the JWs are a cult and when you were born in and don't know what you don't know. There are definitely gaps... things I didn't learn in my formative years that I would have learned if I hadn't been in a stupid cult. When I left my entire foundation crumbled to dust and disappeared. I had to start from scratch... what is actually good and actually bad? What is right? What is wrong? Do I know these things for myself without the guidance of something bigger than myself?

I did know right from wrong without them. That's why I left the cult in the first place. They were wrong. Leaving the cult was hard for me but wonderful in that I learned to question everything. It's a good lesson. A painful one and I wouldn't wish it on anyone... but a good lesson non-the-less. Almost 30 years later, my take away is this... You get to decide if it was all a big waste or if you got something good out of it. Recovery is a process and you take whatever time it takes for you to recover. But... you can decide to focus on the negatives or focus on the positives. The cult taught me not to care what other people think of me and with the current trends in virtual reality and the internet... that was an awesome lesson to have learned. It is really working for me now. I can also help people who have been through trauma... and in ways that a lot of other people cannot. I value that because... I would like to leave a positive footprint behind me when I leave this world.

23

NEW LEAKED ANNUAL MEETING VIDEO :KENNETH COOK :THE DISFELLOSHIPPING IS NOT GOING AWAY ANYTIME SOON

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/6ga9v7ffrwk?si=0lor5qquapmq8ck4.

what you are about to watch is another leaked instalment from the recent annual meeting delivered by kenneth cook with the theme "help to tear down and build up" and highlights tge new take o disfellowshipping that will from now concentrate on major wrongdoing whereas minor wrongdoing will be dealt with kind and love.so the watchtower's at it again, rewriting the narrative like an old tv show that conveniently forgets a character's past.

for decades, the organization has been the ultimate gatekeeper, quick to kick out members for even minor missteps—let's not forget how jehovah's witnesses have had to grovel and practically beg to be reinstated.

jwundubbed

They even go on to say that while Jehovah’s standards haven’t changed, their “understanding” of mercy has.

How long has the JWs been an organization? And it took them that long to have a 'better understanding of mercy'? That isn't an attractive quality in a religion... lack of mercy... lack of understanding of mercy.

2

How to Have Jehovah's Witnesses Go Away on WikiHow

by jwundubbed in

i was looking up how to do something and found this awesome piece of writing.

it's really good information... and it made me chuckle too.

the picture over "understand the beliefs" is priceless to me.

jwundubbed

I was looking up how to do something and found this awesome piece of writing. It's really good information... and it made me chuckle too. The picture over "Understand the Beliefs" is priceless to me. It says so much with so little.

https://www.wikihow.com/Have-Jehovah%27s-Witnesses-Go-Away

Enjoy!

35

Serious sinner?

by Gorb in

jw
friends

with the statement in the study watchtower this sunday, that stop serving jehovah is a serious sin, the following:.

- can i conclude now, that we, (i, wife and 2 children), since 2008 pomo and no longer active in any religious activity, are serious sinners for jehovahs witnesses?.

writing this in a watchtower, a statement like that, could have big implications.. it makes me so sad.

jwundubbed

For context, I have been shunned by my family for 28 years. I never thought it would last this long. I never thought it would start in the first place. My great sin... not conforming. I'm a non-conformist. Politically, I'm an independent... or non-conformist. Religiously, I decided to make my own... that makes me a non-conformist right? I didn't get married. I don't have children. By all social standards, I'm a non-conformist.

Being shunned isn't fun. Being estranged from family isn't that unusual. To be honest, the side of my family in the cult are not healthy people to be around. Their shunning me gives me a great reason not to make contact with them. I do not in any way condone shunning. But I do have to say that I am much better off not being tied to all those unhealthy, unhappy people. And I get to be present in every living moment instead of living for a terrible tomorrow. The consequence of being a non-conformist? Nothing but being happy with myself.

So, my confusion is this. What is so bad about being a sinner? Also, what is the difference between a sinner, a serious sinner, an unforgivable sinner etc.?

35

Serious sinner?

by Gorb in

jw
friends

with the statement in the study watchtower this sunday, that stop serving jehovah is a serious sin, the following:.

- can i conclude now, that we, (i, wife and 2 children), since 2008 pomo and no longer active in any religious activity, are serious sinners for jehovahs witnesses?.

writing this in a watchtower, a statement like that, could have big implications.. it makes me so sad.

jwundubbed

I prefer the term 'HAPPY SINNER'.

I am a serious person, but I'm so much happier sinning against the JWs than being a part of them.

What is "the sin that easily entangles us'?

LACK OF FAITH

The happy sinner is un-entangled. Faith, no faith, no matter. Life gets real simple when you are a happy sinner. You don't have to damn the consequences. What? You mean people who only want me if I conform to their absurdities will shun me for being a sinner? And that's supposed to be bad, is it? I won't get to live in paradise with a perfect body with only JWs... and that's supposed to be bad too? Me thinks we have very different ideas of what is good and what is bad.

@Phizzy

What concerns me may be an unfounded fear, but this statement leaves it open for Elders to Label any of us as being " Serious sinners" according to their lights, and then we will be treated the same as any actual "Removed Person".

Oh no, your fear is founded. But this has always been the case and will always be the case. The JW/GB will always find new ways to justify this action against non-conformers. You will need to face your fear because it already IS.

30

Experiences After Leaving

by Freeatlast2024 in

i am writing to ask if anyone cares to share their experience and/or offer advice for people leaving.

i was raised in the religion, and both my parents died when i was very young.

i recently stopped associating because my conscience no longer allows me to preach or support the organization.

jwundubbed

I left the cult in my 20s. There are some things that I did right, and some things that I didn't do that could have made transitioning so much easier.

First, stop using their language. Use the language that the rest of the world uses. This helps other people relate to you when you do talk about your past, but it also helps you to think like the people that you want to be in a community with. It is also a part of deprogramming.

Jehovah's Witnesses = fundamentalist Christian religion (or in my case a Doomsday cult)

Kingdom Hall = church

Sunday and Weekday meetings = services

bible study = bible study (this meeting where groups meet outside of the church to do bible study is actually quite common in other Christian churches)

assembly (all of them) = convention

Brothers & Sisters = church members, parishioners, you choose what works for you

Elders, circuit overseers, the Governing Body = ministers or pastors

Governing Body (if you need to make the distinction) = church administrators

You can easily look up titles to make changes to your vocabulary.

Others have already give you great advice for navigating making new friends and creating your chosen community, network. I'm going to tell you something that I find most of us do not want to hear.

Get therapy.

I left and did what I could to separate myself from the cult. I changed my language. I got right out there and started making friends. I got into romantic relationships. It was a decade later before I realized that I had significantly underestimated the impact that the JWs had on how I relate to people. I was born in. The JW way of relating to people entirely shaped me during the formative years of my life. I think people who join later are also effected by this. For me, I don't know what I don't know. I can see all kinds of areas of my life that I can change to be a better person and to separate myself from the cult. But I cannot see the intricate details of my interpersonal relationships and where I might be going wrong. Just yesterday I realized that I need to find someone who is a step between a therapist and a life coach to help me work on my friend skills. I've come so far, but I am incapable of seeing what I need to see without someone else to help point it out to me. I need to learn from someone who can articulate it and help me find the tools necessary to make successful relationships... even just friends. I got therapy to deal with some PTSD issues and it helped. I didn't do a lot. I did not get therapy to help me navigate interpersonal relationships, and I now think that I could have learned so much and gotten better at relationships so much faster if I had. Therapy/counseling doesn't have the stigma that it used to have and there are so many different types available now. There are support groups that meet online, like on Zoom, and just share their struggles. Some are formatted like support groups while others feel more relaxed like friends meeting up. You can even make some friends with people who share a similar struggle.

I realized just yesterday that I haven't been making the friendships that I want to make. Making friends is much harder as an adult. It isn't just that you are no longer thrust together in an environment where you are forced to interact with each other, as children are. It is that the other adults aren't interested in making those connections. People will make those connections given the opportunity, but they aren't seeking it themselves oftentimes. You really have to work at it. I have 2 friends right now. They are really good friends. I have acquaintances at work. I'm going to try Meet-Up to see if I can find a group that gathers to do artwork together. I'm not a naturally social person. I'm fine all by myself. But it isn't healthy. And at the end of my life, I want more than 2 chosen people by my side. I want to make a difference in other people's lives and have them make a difference in mine. I feel like I have a lot to give.

I hope this helps and I hope you can start making new friends and creating a choice family soon.

95

Are you glad you got the Covid Vaccine? Did it help?

by liam in

i didn’t get the covid vaccine, but i admit, i was scared as shit i made the wrong decision because there was so much confusion out there.

practically all my family and most of my friends took the vaccine because everyone was depending on those in charge to speak the truth.

now a lot of them are sick, and they can't figure out why.

jwundubbed

Does anyone know anyone who actually died from COVID? I know of people harmed by the vaccines, but the supposedly deadly virus? It was media hype.

Yes. I know a lot of people who died from COVID. Here are just a couple of examples. My stepbrother got COVID during the lock-down. He died within a week. I knew a very elderly woman who died of it. Then her son contracted it and killed himself. I know a lot of people who worked on the front lines and saw a ton of death. It was, is, and will always be real. But then, so is the flu and pneumonia, and bronchitis.. all of which used to kill a lot of people before we had the medicines to mitigate the risks. My very good friend, who was only 48 years old, died of complications from pneumonia in 2018. While you cannot deny that it was real, there isn't any good reason to freak out about it and make it into more than it is.

I have a different perspective on vaccines, apparently. I'm a child of the '80s. Everyone I knew growing up, were always thankful for vaccines. It meant we didn't get measles, polio, scarlet fever, small pox, and etc. I had grandparents that still talked about how scary it was to get scarlet fever and small pox. I knew how lucky I was to not have to worry about getting those diseases.

It wasn't until I was much older that the idea that vaccines cause autism started. I never understood why people could be so stupid about that idea. If it really causes autism... why aren't there more cases of autism? Everyone, every single baby and child was required to get the standard vaccinations, but the number of autistic babies is quite low compared to the entire population. It doesn't even make sense. It isn't just JWs that don't have logic skills.

In the US, you couldn't work in certain fields if you didn't have the standard round of vaccinations. None of that is new. I came up knowing this was a requirement. It boggled my mind when people thought it was some egregious new law that they couldn't work in some places or ways if they hadn't been vaccinated. To me, that was just people being dumb.

Vaccines have been around for a while now. Yes, some people have reactions to vaccines. That's true of all medicines. But I'm also not afraid of COVID or monkeypox or whatever will come next. There is a shit ton of crap in the air that can kill me. What's one more? What's a dozen more? Either it will get me and I will die or it won't. It isn't the worst way to die. It isn't the nicest way either. But it certainly isn't any scarier than anything else. I fear death. I hope to go in my sleep. I hope not to be violated and dismembered and cast into an unmarked grave by a serial killer. Fearing dying of COVID falls under 'dying from some awful lung complication'. I do not understand why it is so much scarier to people than any other way of dying.

To me, that was the worst part of COVID... the sheer mass stupidity by people, companies, and the government. Quarantine and lock-down was understandable. The last time we had an outbreak like that was the Spanish Flu of 1912. I get why people were freaked out. It's been a while since people had to remember that quarantines and lock down are actually nothing new.

I think conversations like this one are weird. I don't get what all the fuss is about. I don't care about the stupid and weird antics of the politicians. When aren't they trying to influence journalism and control the social narrative? I just don't see why there has to be such melodrama about it all.

Whatever it was, it wasn't informed consent.

No, I think it falls under implied consent... at least for people in the US. The lock-down, quarantines, required vaccinations, work regulations around vaccines... it is all historical standards. If you live in the states you expect to abide by the law both as it stands and as it is enacted during times of crisis.

It wasn't 'informed' consent because people didn't do their due diligence and have all this self-righteousness about their rights without actually knowing their rights and their responsibilities. During COVID, people were watching the fearmongering on the news and in social media. They weren't informed because they chose not to be informed. Being informed doesn't mean that you get the information spoon fed to you by someone else. It means that you learn everything you need to learn to make a good choice. You don't get that from people in social media. You get that from your own research, your own due diligence.

I gave informed consent. I was eager for the vaccines. I like vaccines and I trust them. But if I didn't, I still live in the US and I know what the government requires of me to live and work here. Just by living here, I agree to abide by the law during a crisis. That is implied consent.

Edit: Since some people are indicating their vaccine status:

1976: Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis, Polio (OPV), Measles, Mumps, Rubella,

1990: Measles (due to outbreak in area)

2013-2023: 10year pneumonia, annual flu shot

2021: COVID Janssen & COVID Pfizer

2022: COVID booster

2023: Flu shot, COVID shot

2024: Prevnar20 lifetime pneumonia vaccine

42

What would happen to a JW for celebrating Christmas?

by Vanderhoven7 in

mark jones writes:.

if they were spied upon and it was reported to the elders they’d be “invited” to a judicial committee whereupon they’d be cross examined in a locked backroom by three men acting as judge and jury to decide if they are guilty.. .

if the elders decide that they are guilty, they’ll then decide if the person is sorry.

jwundubbed

Shouldn't Christians be encouraged to celebrate Christ's birth every day? In fact we should celebrate everything about Christs life and accomplishments... And yet Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot praise him or even thank him for his grace and mercy and sacrifice on our behalf.

Jehovah's Witnesses aren't Christians. They are Christian non-Christians. They think they are Christians... with a ton of cognitive disassociation. It's in the very name of the cult. Jehovah's Witnesses follow Jehovah, not Christ. By the very definition of 'Christian' that makes them 'not Christian'. It never ceases to amaze me at how many people leave the cult but fail to recognize that very important point. JWs don't act like Christians because they aren't Christians.

In answer to the original question... all the responses are correct but there are some exceptions to the rules. People who have one parent in and one parent out, especially if the one that is out is the husband, have some leeway to celebrate holidays.

Also, if you have a congregation with worn out elders they might not do anything to those that celebrate. I was in one congregation where people started celebrating Christmas and even talked about it at the meetings and the elders were too worn down to care. A young overseer came in and livened things up and people just didn't talk about what they celebrated anymore. But the congregation was worn down as well so people got away with a lot more than other congregations I've been a part of. People stopped telling on each other. A lot of the young people left and had no contact with their families. That actually wears pretty hard on people. You have a lot of that and people sometimes stop being so hateful to each other. I'm sure it has changed since then. That was a couple of decades ago.

75

Would you be able to survive a three day Assembly?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

the last assembly i attended was over 10 years ago.

the monotone speakers, boring talks, uncomfortable seats, long prayers and nodding off after the lunch break did me in.

i survived the morning sessions, but the afternoon sessions were brutal.

jwundubbed

I am going to admit a truth that I don't normally admit to. I loved the assemblies. But my experience wasn't the same as you describe. I loved the energy during intermissions. Even walking around during the talks held a level of awesome energy. The attitudes of people was so different to what they were during regular meetings.

I couldn't stay awake during Tuesday night bible studies or Thursday night one-hour meetings let alone during 2-hour Sunday meetings. I always knew I was going to sleep through most of the assemblies as well (that's the truth I don't normally admit). No one ever addressed my problem with this. I didn't snore. That probably helped. I tried to take notes, but invariably, I just accepted defeat and went to sleep. Looking back, I realize that it was really good sleep. I enjoyed it. I could do that again.

That isn't what you meant when you asked if we could survive, I know...

I could survive the experience in that regard. But I have learned that I can't be casual about attending something so dangerous. The muscle memory and nostalgia would make me welcome it. It was my normal, my default setting and that always feels so good. But that is a dangerous place to put myself. It would be mental warfare so subtle they wouldn't even know they were doing it to me. I wouldn't know it either, not until I caught myself singing an old bible song (I don't want to listen to the new trendy songs!! ew!) or thinking in JWisms. In that regard, no I could not survive it again and it wouldn't be worth it to attend just to see what it's like.