Posts by SEAKEN2001

29

"What is your ultimate goal?"

by SEAKEN2001 in

jw
friends

i follow the threads on legal questions with interest because somewhere inside me is this voice yelling at me to get back at those bastards that lied to me and my family and all the other good people i have come to know here and abroad.

i too carry a lot of anger with me from my experience as a witness.

however, another poster raised the question "what is your ultimate goal?

SEAKEN2001

Bonovox,

my appologies if you are offended. Yes, I did pick up your question and run with it in a different direction. It sparked me in the direction I have been thinking the last couple of days and it required a new topic. I had read so many things this morning that I did not pay attention to who brought up the question. I yield to you.

As to the other thread I didn't add to it because I felt it was pretty clearly established. I agree with your outlook on that subject, by the way.

Also,

Really, the outside world does see this about JWs and has known it for a long time. As for the ones inside, what really can you do? There are 100 times as many Muslims that blindly believe the same thing about their religion too. Its the illogical premise that every single last religion on the planet is built on, and no amount of protestations or well formed arguments from former members of any of these fundamentalist types will really change much.

100% agreement.

My thought on that was from the viewpoint of my family, who do not see the JW's as the outside world does.

I have to disagree with you about the worth of staying with a mate who may not accept the same freedom of thought as you do. That is a personal decision and everyone will decide for themselves what is "worth it" and what is not. And whether someone decides they need or don't need a therpist to talk to is not predicated on religion or anything else. That again is a personal matter. I for one can function just fine even if my wife were hostile to me, which she is not. My freedoms and goals are no more important to me than are hers. That's just my personal belief. I don't expect everyone to share it. I know that some people object to a mate taking up half of their life. But I happen to beleive that if you have a good mate you owe it to them to give of yourself, even if it means emptying yourself for awhile. I won't allow myself to be dominated by my mate but neither will I try to dominate.

I happen to be struggling with my anger and fears right now but I have not lost my mind. I am willing to explore the new territory of being at odds with my wife on subjects that I have previously considered of utmost importance. I am willing to consider that I can be as much a part of the problem as her. She is not at fault for my having a change of mind. I don't think she will shun me if I'm DF'd. I may be jeopardizing my business future with her family but I am willing to test that.

I no longer take such a cut and dried approach to things as you seem to be suggesting. Life is just too complex and interesting to be so limited. I prefer to explore and learn new things and experience new insights and I always try to remain balanced. This week I have been having problems with my balance so I am happy to share my thoughts here and get some feed back. I already feel better. And today I took the first step in advancing beyond my former place of silence. More to come.

Sean

38

A Timely warning regarding Disfellowshipping. A Mu

by MARTINLEYSHON in

jw
friends

i have been disfellowshipped for 2 weeks.

my story the shortened version.. i left the organisation 2years 2 months ago.

i live 25 miles from the kingdom hall that i attended for 29 years, man and boy.

SEAKEN2001

Ha! Dino, it always backfires when you point this stuff out, doesn't it? Damn!

Correction: punctuation

I know I should probably just keep it to myself but every once in awhile I get frisky and attempt to point out the difficulties I have in reading some of the posts. I know it irritates some people to bring up the subject of proper speech, spelling, formatting or sentence structure, etc. I try to behave and not bring it too much. But I do find that a lot of people do not take enough time to properly scan and read their own writing to make sure it is readable. I'm not a great speller nor a great typist so I have my share of typos. But I think it's important to be able to read the text as it was intended. Poor formatting and sentence structure can drastically effect the meaning of what is being read.

Today, I guess I am particularly frisky since this is the second thread I have brought this subject up. Not trying to flame anyone just trying to help people commmunicate.

Sean

And yes, E-man always cracks me up too. That bit on the "do you ignore?" thread was hilarious and precisely to my point.

205

Sometimes I Am Ashamed

by Dutchie in

jw
friends

does every issue of morality have to be compared with the thinking and teaching of jehovahs witnesses?

simply because you are no longer jehovahs witnesses does that mean that you flaunt all moral authority and engaged in any perverted pleasure that you have a mind to?

because your morality is no longer legislated by a pseudo religious organization does that give you license to engage in all acts of "immorality" and refer to it "as just having fun.

SEAKEN2001

Heaven, nice thoughts. But PLEASE stop using all italics in your posts. It makes it next to impossible to read.

Everyone - I have a typesetting background but I'm sure I'm not the only one here who understands that things like bold, italics, underline, ALL CAPS, etc. are to be used only to emphasize certain words or phrases. How many of you buy a book off the shelf printed entirely in one of these type styles? Than why do you do it on the web? Text is meant to be read. Make it readable.

End of rant.

Sean

29

"What is your ultimate goal?"

by SEAKEN2001 in

jw
friends

i follow the threads on legal questions with interest because somewhere inside me is this voice yelling at me to get back at those bastards that lied to me and my family and all the other good people i have come to know here and abroad.

i too carry a lot of anger with me from my experience as a witness.

however, another poster raised the question "what is your ultimate goal?

SEAKEN2001

Yes, Mulan, you have been some of the best therapy for me. You're very special to me and I thank you for your continued patience with me. Your advice is exactly what I have continued to tell myself. I will continue to be patient. I know it took mom five years after Dad left the borg. But like I said, I can tell myself this and I know it mentally. It's my heart that is aching and it's getting harder to keep my mental health. I have decided I can no longer just stay silent. I have a few things I want to do and I can't wait for her to wake up before I get started. I'm no young kid anymore. So, whatever happens, I will face it. I am a little scared I might lose some things that are important to me but I also want to give them all the benefit of the doubt and hope that they will rise to the occasion. We'll see.

I have been avoiding contacting Gma and UncleM because I have been dealing with my anger and the last thing I got out of Gma was that I was going to be destroyed by Jah at the big A. That has been pissing me off. But I do owe her a letter and I will try to be civil. I will try reaching out to UncleM too nut don't expect much. He's been pretty disappointing through all of this. I still hold out hope for B. but who knows? I fear he may have married a Big Momma. Only time will tell.

Great goal. And it is one I share. As soon as I can shake this angst over not having a wife in agreement with me I will be able to do more. Hugs to everyone and I hope I can get out there again this year. If things go the way I think they might I will see before the winter.

Sean

29

"What is your ultimate goal?"

by SEAKEN2001 in

jw
friends

i follow the threads on legal questions with interest because somewhere inside me is this voice yelling at me to get back at those bastards that lied to me and my family and all the other good people i have come to know here and abroad.

i too carry a lot of anger with me from my experience as a witness.

however, another poster raised the question "what is your ultimate goal?

SEAKEN2001

Yes, my wife's family are JW's, with the exception of her father who is an unbelieving husband. He understands the difficulty I am in but he does not know what the WTS is really like. He resists the idea that they are a cult but otherwise believes that I have made an informed decision.

Yes, Puffs, this is one of the difficulties I am having. I really want to stay involved in the business and help manage it into the future. But since my MIL, wife, and her sisters and their husbands are all loyal dubs I am afraid of what may happen if I am DF'd. Also, all the employees are dubs (I had nothing to do with that. I plan on changing that statistic and my FIL is in agreement with me) so that may also cause some problems. I have to decide if it is worth the risk to my business relationship, as well as my family relationships, if I get DF'd. Actually, I can deal with the family problems better than the possibiltity that I could lose my business contacts and have to start over.

Bottom line. I have decided I am no longer going to deliberately remain silent to avoid action by the dubs. I am moving on with my life and whatever happens will happen. It is a little scary and I am afraid of what might result from the actions of those bastards who think they are God's right-hand men. But I'm tired of hiding in fear. I was hoping my wife would have come around by now and that has been bothering me of late. I hope nothing happens but I'm just not going to hide anymore.

My e-mail is now open and my real name is in my profile. I would like to meet up with anyone in the Mid-Hudson Valley area for lunch or a movie. Maybe we can have our own "apostofest" some day.

Hey, D8TA, I think you'll achieve your goal!

Mr Moe., I hear ya. I'd like to close that chapter but my wife is still very important to me and I'm not ready to close it. I plan on sticking with her even if the worst happens and her family ends up shunning me and I lose my interest in the family business. We'll see what happens.

Sean

17

Injured at Bethel--then what?

by LDH in

jw
friends

for 'lookin' who stated in another thread that he was asked to leave bethel after 8 years because he was injured.. is there any form of worker's comp if you are injured at bethel?

is there any disability insurance if you are disabled?.

how does this whole thing work?.

SEAKEN2001

Lisa,

when I was at Bethel it was still posible to get treatment for injuries unless surgery was needed. Just after I badly turned my ankle on the basketball court, and another brother broke his wrist (he was a Bethel elder, I was a little pee-on) there was talk at morning worship about a new policy for handling personal injuries. We weren't called an "order" back then and I never took a vow of poverty, at least knowingly. But we were all informed that if you injured yourself on your own time you would have to pay for your own medical care or you would have to leave. Apparently the two of us were only a couple of the many who were costing the "family" money due to injuries while playing sports. I think it was only coincidence that we happened to get injured that week but it sure seemed like everyone was looking at me in my cast. I had to meet with the home overseers and get counseled. I was expected to get back to work very soon. I did have to take about three days off before I could put any weight on my foot. This was around 1985 at WTF.

I think the WTS has tried very hard to cover their butt in this area so I am not confident that anyone will be able to find and exploit a loophole here. They put in all the "order" and "vow of poverty" stuff to prevent just the type of action you inquire about. Maybe there is something that can be done with respect to on-the-job injuries. Don't know. I do know a brother at the farm fell off a scaffolding and broke his heels. He was able to recover at the Farm in the infirmery and stayed at bethel. I don't know what the criteria is for allowing some to stay and sending some home. At any rate, the WTS is definitely guilty of a scam in relation to labor laws. All under the guise of "religion". They are very clever. It's maddening. I hope somewhere along the line someone successfully blows open the scam.

Sean

15

World Cup (spoiler)

by gsx1138 in

jw
friends

.

the u.s. has beat mexico 2-0. for those of you who don't know me i used to play soccer.. i even went to the world cup.. this is the only time i went to the world cup.

so you know, i'm the guy in the green stripes.. needless to say i've not played soccer since.. .

SEAKEN2001

Great! I'm glad they won. The game was on at 2:00 am here so I was sawing logs by then.

I guess the US team is not so bad as the media was saying before the tourny started.

Sean

E-man, I would have been the fifth but I just couldn't stay up that late! Beauty sleep and all.

8

Using labels to avoid the issue

by Simon in

jw
friends

we all know how the wts works and how they have built up a clever lebelling system which they can use to prevent having to address the real issues.

one word and someone's arguments vanish into dust and all credibility is shot:.

"apostate".

SEAKEN2001

Can we call them "Apostate"? "Stupid", "Ignorant"?

OK, just kidding. I agree with your points. Argue on the issues and honestly address the questions rather than using ad hominem attacks. There's an outside chance that they may actually learn to do the same thing one day and we'll have the satisfaction of knowing that we may have helped them grow up.

Sean

29

"What is your ultimate goal?"

by SEAKEN2001 in

jw
friends

i follow the threads on legal questions with interest because somewhere inside me is this voice yelling at me to get back at those bastards that lied to me and my family and all the other good people i have come to know here and abroad.

i too carry a lot of anger with me from my experience as a witness.

however, another poster raised the question "what is your ultimate goal?

SEAKEN2001

I follow the threads on legal questions with interest because somewhere inside me is this voice yelling at me to get back at those bastards that lied to me and my family and all the other good people I have come to know here and abroad. I too carry a lot of anger with me from my experience as a Witness.

However, another poster raised the question "What is your ultimate goal?" For me, I am not so interested in seeing the WTS crumble nor do I really think they ever will. But, I would like to see them exposed as no different than any other religion or cult that presumes to speak for God. Like all of the rest, God is not involved. The problem is, even should that take place to my satisfaction there is absolutely no way I can change the mind of my wife so that she will realize that all that I have been saying about the subject is in fact true. So, what is my ultimate goal? To change my wifes mind.

This is causing me conflict because I know, in my mind at least, that I cannot change her mind. No matter what I say or do she will think what she wants to think. I am having a problem dealing with that. For so many years I have felt so strongly about being of "one mind" and "one flesh" that this difference of opinion is threatening my happiness. I am a fairly logical person and I can reason with myself and tell myself what I know but after more than two years I still struggle with this feeling of distrust that I have for my wife, whom I know is just brainwashed and under the control of the WTS. I know she is being abused by a cult but I can't help but get mad at her and sometimes I get so angry inside that I feel like I can't wait anymore and need to leave her and find someone else who will respond to me.

I need to change my goal and focus on something else, like community leadership or something. I need to be involved with someone or something that will challenge me and respond to my need for intellectual stimulation and growth. If I continue to just remain silent just to keep the peace I am going to go berserk! (Don't worry - I am not the type of person to go shoot up McDonalds!) I'm just afraid to lose all that I have. I have cultivated a relationship with my wife and her family and am deeply involved in the family business and there are many more chances at future financial security in this situation than there is on my own. My net worth is below zero. I have absolutely no resources of my own other than what I carry inside myself. I am not so confident as I once was that I can accomplish whatever I want. I have so much invested in this marriage and this life. Besides, I really like my wife. I don't want to blow it. I just need some help dealing with this WT mindset that continues to have me in it's grip, and with the fear I have of losing what I have if I do what I want to do in full view of the WTS. This is what makes me so angry! I know I will be all right if I just move on and do what I want but I keep holding back out of fear. Fear that comes from the power of the WTS over my wife and her family, indeed, over me. I have been thinking about consulting with a therapist just so I can relieve my fears. I need help in changing my focus and taking on a new "ultimate goal". The one I have is killing me.

Sean

Edited by - seaken2001 on 17 June 2002 14:48:48

38

A Timely warning regarding Disfellowshipping. A Mu

by MARTINLEYSHON in

jw
friends

i have been disfellowshipped for 2 weeks.

my story the shortened version.. i left the organisation 2years 2 months ago.

i live 25 miles from the kingdom hall that i attended for 29 years, man and boy.

SEAKEN2001

James,

man, I like reading your stuff but DAMN, would you please work on your formatting, puncuation and spelling? Sometimes it takes me reading three or four times to sort it out!

If I didn't appreciate what you have to say I wouldn't work that hard to read it.

Sean