Hey Teejay, knock it off with all that "fluff" posting will ya? <g> How do you expect to get to the top by sharing such touchy-feely stuff?
Anybody else see the humor in this rediculous go around?
Sean
SEAKEN2001
JoinedPosts by SEAKEN2001
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118
Are we equal...?
by DannyBear inwhen an employer resorts to comments like 'who sign's your check?
' or 'are you biting the hand that feed's you?
', it is normally due to some perceived or overt violation of loyalty, or simply to shut the employee up regarding the subject matter at hand.. i don't like the tactic, because it is rarely used in a one on one situaltion, but generally in the ear shot of other's, to squelch the matter.
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17
A poem in memory of my mom.
by SEAKEN2001 ini've never really attempted poetry and don't really understand it completely.
but i do like it and i was inspired to make this post after reading ashitaka's fine poem in eulogy of his grandfather.
i've been asked by a few who were present at my mother's funeral and wake to go ahead and post a part of my eulogy here.
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SEAKEN2001
I've never really attempted poetry and don't really understand it completely. But I do like it and I was inspired to make this post after reading Ashitaka's fine poem in eulogy of his grandfather. I've been asked by a few who were present at my mother's funeral and wake to go ahead and post a part of my eulogy here. I guess this is a good time since Ashi's loss is felt by all of us here and it reminds me of what my family has just gone through. Here goes,
My mom (some of you here knew her as Sharon and Mulan's friend) was always on top of everything. She had a place for everything and always knew where everything was, especially in the kitchen. When we were putting away the dishes and didn't know where something went we just yelled out to mom (she was in watching TV with Dad as we slaved away in the kitchen <g>) and say "where does the cheese grater go?" She'd yell back precise instructions to guide us to the precise nook in the cabinet to hold that particular item. If we had misplaced our school books or pee-chee's she would know where she put them after cleaning up (usually on the stairs going up to our room). We'd yell out, "Mom, have you seen my pee-chee?" She'd tell us where to look. She would put Dad's books away from off the floor next to his chair even when he didn't want her to. He'd have to ask her "have you seen my books?" and she'd tell him so matter-of-fact, "they're over there on the book shelf where they belong". Ha! That's the way she was. She always knew where things were.
With that quality of her's in mind I was thinking of the lack of love shown her by her so-called brothers and even some members of her family. I was particularly hurt by weakness shown by those who knew her to be nothing but a saint. But I was moved by her steadfast resolve to continue to show love to others despite her own treatment. I wrote this in rememberance of this wonderful lady who I knew as my Mom.
"Have You Seen God's Love?"
Mom, have you seen God's love today?
I was hoping to find it because it's especially hard today
It was here just a while agoMom, where has God's love gone?
I looked at the Kingdom Hall but they said I could not ask
I looked at Grandma's house where I was sure to find it
She said I could find it at the Kingdom HallI heard them tell of their own love
But, it's God's love I am looking for
I will know it when I see itGod's love is kind, never rude
God's love takes no offense and is not resentful
God's love does not remember our wrongs but is always ready to excuseThere is no end to it's trust and hope
God's love endures whatever comes
It never failsOh! - here it is!
I knew I would find it with you
You had it all the timeIt was you who showed me God's love
You were kind and generous, never rude
You overlooked our errors and always excused us
Full of trust and hope, you never failedThank you for helping me find God's love
I knew you had it all the time.I love you Mom
I will see you again when I get to where you have gone
God bless you
God bless us all.Sean
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SEAKEN2001
Nice eulogy, Ashi.
Boating, the water front. Great memories.
Sean
P.S. You've inspired me. You'll see what I mean after my next post.
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24
He passed away last night.
by ashitaka ini was in a bookstore trying to forget the day when my father called me and told me that my grandfather had died.
he had passed only five minutes after we had left.. someone else was wondering what happens when we die.
well, i was reading the chronicles on narnia (something i do when i'm feeling a little lost), and something at the end of the last battle caught me eye.. "the term is over: the holidays have begun.
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SEAKEN2001
Marilyn,
I'm so sorry for empty space left behind where Mom used to be. I'll stop and think sometimes to myself "it's different now". It is hard to get used to. She used to call me when she thought I hadn't called her soon enough. I keep thinking I have to call before she calls me <g>. (I guess her ringing me premptively worked! Of course, that should prompt me to call Dad)
I think it's neat that you talk to her. I've always enjoyed seeing that acted out on TV or in the movies. It shows how much a part of you she is and that she still has a force. Maybe that is an exhistence or an echo of an exhistence on some other plane or dimension. As Randy said to me once, the only ones who know what it's really like are dead people, and they're not telling!
Love you,
Sean -
24
He passed away last night.
by ashitaka ini was in a bookstore trying to forget the day when my father called me and told me that my grandfather had died.
he had passed only five minutes after we had left.. someone else was wondering what happens when we die.
well, i was reading the chronicles on narnia (something i do when i'm feeling a little lost), and something at the end of the last battle caught me eye.. "the term is over: the holidays have begun.
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SEAKEN2001
Ashi,
my sincere condolences. And I do believe you will meet again, when you get to where he has gone.
My ideas about life after death have changed dramatically since leaving the Borg. And, even though I no longer have faith in the God of the Bible, I do believe in a spirit world and that eternity, at least as best as we can understand it, is a part of our being. I like to think that death in the flesh is only a change and that everything we are in spirit continues perpetually. I suppose this is a modified view of my Christian upbringing and it is still evolving. Anyway, I hope you can find comfort as you remember all that your grandfather was and all that he is.
Sean
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118
Are we equal...?
by DannyBear inwhen an employer resorts to comments like 'who sign's your check?
' or 'are you biting the hand that feed's you?
', it is normally due to some perceived or overt violation of loyalty, or simply to shut the employee up regarding the subject matter at hand.. i don't like the tactic, because it is rarely used in a one on one situaltion, but generally in the ear shot of other's, to squelch the matter.
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SEAKEN2001
I've been on these bulletin boards since the days of CPM and the Apple // and it never ceases to amaze me when I read the words of people who would never think to speak the same in a face to face meeting. The internet seems to create a sort of "it's ok to be rude" zone since no one can see me.
I don't care if you're the head professor at some internationally renowned university there is NEVER an excuse for calling names and speaking rudely to either a fellow peer or a student. Now, that doesn't mean I haven't done so. I've called people assholes or worse. But I always regret it and appologize once I have come to my senses. This is all to say we are only human and bound to get our knickers in a buch once in awhile.
Having read this thread and a few of the others I have to say that I understand Dan's comments and fairly agree with them. It may be that he was being a little too sensitive and took exception to Alan's way of expressing himself. I think he had every right to air his concern and that the response to it, at least at the beginning, was overblown. Now, everyone seems to have made up. That's fine. Still, Alan, you were being a real ass and you DID come off as sounding all 'elite'. Your name calling can have no other effect. I'm glad you finally allowed yourself to come down from your high position and appologize.
I have been on both sides of this type of thing, like Seeker, only I do not post as often in the scholarly arena. I have no problem keeping up with the likes of Alan or anyone else who does the research. I am not interested in impressing anyone with my intellect, although, at one time I did think that way. I have written some very interesting and thought provoking papers but I do not care that it is not well known. I would much rather hang out with z-balls and his ilk because they understand that to laugh is just as important as to understand. Intellect and knowledge are way over-rated. They can be fun and even adictive, but, nevertheless, only a small part of real life.
Do I appreciate the expose's written about the error of WTS doctrine and unholy acts. Sure. But, frankly, I have left all that behind and it has very little meaning in my life anymore. That chapter is over and we are on to other things, like learning how to laugh or really getting to know people who have a completely different idea about life than do I. I prefer the lighter side of this board and am not happy to see the intellectual folks here trivialize what this means to so many people by labelling it 'fluff'.
Now, please just read this and think about whether it's necessary to comment on my insinuations about 'intellectuals'. Having been an intellectual I know how important it is to have people respect your ability and your grasp of the abstract. But, believe me, if you don't learn to treat people with simple kindness rather than calling everyone who fails to see what you think simple a moron or jackass, you will never grow to be accepted by your community. If you continue to be abrasive you should not be surprised when your fellows object and lash out at you, even if they are unable to articulate their anger with eloquent words.
As to 'proof', that's all a smoke screen. When you lash out with insufferable name calling and superior attitude you have provided all the proof needed.
I have a little sign on my book case that says something like "Silence is the Only Successful Substitute for Brains". There is another saying that goes something like "It is better to keep silent and let others think you a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." These ideas have served me well as I have grown older and I think they could serve others here just as well.
These flame wars are not without merit. Invariabley, those who have participated and said things they regret learn to adjust. Those who don't adjust are just ignored. So, I can't agree with the sentiments of those here who have suggested that this exchange is of no value or harmful to those JW's who are looking for some affirmation. These boards are what they are. Some people will not ever be comfortable in a confrontational environment and they will find this site objectionable simply because this thread exists. That is too bad. They would fare better if they worked through the discomfort and learned to sort out the trash from the useful information. And, as this thread has shown, it usually works it's way out. I would be suspicious of any board wherein everyone always gets along and never has a disagreement. Not much different than a KH to me.
And look how many post there are on this thread! Surely that counts for something! <g>
Sean
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10
Can someone please explain how the society invests
by sleepy incan someone please explain how the society invests.. what i'd also like to know is how much does it invest?.
in which companies?.
also what does it mean for a company if you buy shares , are they relient on the share holder , do they have a say in the buisness?.
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SEAKEN2001
I don't know the answer to your question sleepy. But, the Society does use a lot of vendors and it is concievable that some companies who do a lot of business with the Society would hurt if they went belly up. I think there are also a few companies that are supported solely by the Society and are used by them in their so-called "worldwide work". I dn't know if there are any outside companies that rely heavily on any investment income from the WTS.
We happen to be one of the vendors that the WTS buys from. But they are a very small part of our business. The WTS likes to buy from "brothers" and treat some high-profile corporate "brothers" like VIPs when they visit the headquarters facilities. They are into butt-kissing but I haven't heard of any investments that have given them controlling interests of the company.
Sean
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10
Get a life
by ballistic ini was just in chat saying how a few good friends of mine tell me i need to leave this all behind in order to leave the jws behind.. well, my answer is no!.
i celebrate this board and all it has done for me, and to those of you who complain about fluff and anti-fluff and what this board should be and what it shouldn't be; i don't give a toss.. the result is in what it does for individuals, not what it looks like, or whether would make a good story.. i will continue to check this site daily, and although my "worldly" friends have my best interests at heart, i can see in the cold light of day what this site does, even if it is evolving and contains "fluff", or does anything else.
let the tens of thousands of sites who speak the truth ring out, and let this site do what it does best!!
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SEAKEN2001
I can understand the advice to separate from the XJW community while you are trying to rebuild your own paradigm. I would have given that advice to you a year ago becasue that's the way I felt at the time. I needed to just get away from all the arguments and just live life for awhile. I did that. Now I am back. I find this place has evolved into a support community and has a very important place in the lives of many recovering cult victims. Everyone is different and some people don't respond to this type of "therapy" and that is why some people who used to be here are gone. But it does work for lots of people, as shown by our participation here. I say, stay on here. I'm not logging in every day and sometimes just lurk but I think it's a great place to add to the life of any XJW.
Sean
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6
JW & Child Molestation
by crochunter ini don't really understand this topic.
do you really believe the wtbs covers up child molestation?
i haven't read the specific accusations, but i seriously doubt that there would be a organizational "unstated" rule that child molestors are allowed.. are you sure this isn't a random event, that it is, it happened once or twice and the wtbs critics jump all over it, much like someone would demonize their enemy?.
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SEAKEN2001
Crochunter,
You are right to question the veracity of the position many of us take with respect to child molestation and the WTS. You really need to probe into the subject and decide for yourself if this is a big deal or not.
One of the things I find distrubing is that for years the WTS has capitalized on reports coming out of other church groups, especially the Roman Catholic Church, that have exposed pedophiles and used these incidents to "prove" that they were the only clean organization. This just is not true. The problems the WTS has with pedophiles amongst their leadership shows that they are just as polluted with unclean people as any other church organization.
As to the WTS organization specifically sanctioning child molesters and allowing them to remain "elders" or members on some other level I can only this: whether they intend to protect the molesters or not (which is obviously the case when the perp is a high-profile member) their policies, as carried out by the leadership, do tend to protect those guilty of unspeakable acts against innocent children. What difference does it make if there is not some 'stated rule' when the actual result of following Society policy covers up the crime and allows for absolutely no comfort or therapy for the abused?
If you are just beginning to visit this board you may not know the basic tenor of some of the participants. I urge you to take your time and read for while. After doing this you will get an idea of who is and who isn't using "loopholes" and deception to color this topic.
Sean
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10
Can someone please explain how the society invests
by sleepy incan someone please explain how the society invests.. what i'd also like to know is how much does it invest?.
in which companies?.
also what does it mean for a company if you buy shares , are they relient on the share holder , do they have a say in the buisness?.
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SEAKEN2001
Sleepy,
I don't know if the Society holds majority stock in any corporations. Is this about their holdings in the Rand Cam company?
I can only speak from the perspective I had as very active proponent of the doctrines of the JW's. When I and my father were considered "examples" it was considerred un-christian (translated: against the JW rules) to hold stock in a worldly company, especially if it was known to be engaged in "un-christian" business practices. Most JW's were completely ignorant of stocks and corporate business. If it were found out that a brother had stock (majority or not) in a worldy company such as Lockheed-Martin (who was well known as a defense contractor) or any company associated with "Christendom" or "Babylon-the-great" they would lose "priveleges" if they didn't correct the situation (sell the stock - major hypocricy here, you figure it out).
This is why I think it's a big deal for some former JW's to hear that the WTS is an active investor, let alone a major stockholder who can be connected by association to a defense contractor.
Of course, none of this has real bearing on how the stock market really works. The WTS, I think, counts on the ignorance of the members in order to do as they please in the stock market, while perpetuating the myth that holding stock in a company somehow makes you culpable and sharer in their bad works (defense, religious affiliation, tobacco, liquor, etc. etc.).
I don't think it's so much that nobody knows but rather that nobody takes it seriously anymore. There is preciuos little leverage to be found in attacking the WTS's investments since the majority of Witnesses these days want the freedom to invest as they see fit without the elders snooping into their portfolios.
Sean