hi guys.. "brother" jose is quite possibly the most sinister speaker i've ever seen or heard.
and i've seen/head a lot of cults in my time.. he's over the top with his voice tone and gestures.
i see a future governing body member in the making here:.
Only 7? And the last one is Anglo-America?
What is the target audience for this 7 World Powers Tour if not JWs? Who else would ever go?
Yes. They are "the disgusting thing in a holy place" (The Metropolitan Museum of Art) that Jesus spoke about. They are the JV Dub program. The Major League program is run by Oasis Biblical Tours. Some guides have found this to be a convenient source of extra or, in some cases, primary income. God loves a cheerful giver!
hi guys.. "brother" jose is quite possibly the most sinister speaker i've ever seen or heard.
and i've seen/head a lot of cults in my time.. he's over the top with his voice tone and gestures.
i see a future governing body member in the making here:.
Tipping:In the spirit of love and appreciation we recommend you set aside a tip for your guide’s time, effort and travel. For example, a group of six people may set aside $60 or more to offset expenses. All guides are unpaid volunteers.
This is after a very overt (by JW standards) campaign against a competing program, whom they claimed was profiting from the tours. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em...
hi guys.. "brother" jose is quite possibly the most sinister speaker i've ever seen or heard.
and i've seen/head a lot of cults in my time.. he's over the top with his voice tone and gestures.
i see a future governing body member in the making here:.
I remember how divisive my first MW comment was at the three facilities, simply because I gestured and put some feeling into what I was saying. It was by no means theatrical or operatic like this narcissist's audition. Jose Cintrón is his name, and allegedly he is the founder of the 7 World Powers Tour in NYC. I can personally attest to the fact that the guy is a bigger douche in person, at least if you don't have anything to offer him (i.e. to new boys like me, at the time). He was one of those nobodys with an office job who fancied himself a "heavy". I guess all the pretending has finally paid off. Glad to see the brotherhood is in the capable, caring hands of such shepherds.
P.S. I find it pretty pathetic that he conveyed greetings from the GB and the Bethel Family in a symposium part. I wonder if he did that on his own. I'm sure he's a Bethel Speaker by now, but what an anticlimactic greeting...
i'm at my quasi-thanksgiving dinner with relatives.
i hear a haunting sound from another room.
"is that a children's song?
Sadly the false promises continue generation after generation.
Maybe that's what Jesus meant by "this generation will by no means pass away"...
so i know one should remove his own stick from his own eye before ones self judges another, but i noticed something.
it seems that the wealthy witnesses are the elders, the circuit overseers, the governing body... are they really different from any other 'worldly' religions or even organizations?
i mean look at the jewels the friggen pope wears.
When I was at the Big House, a recently-deceased GB member had a fairly new Mercedes moved to Wallkill to make space for a brand new model of the car to be parked in the 25 CH garage (before he passed of course). Another GB member had a brand new Cadillac CTS. All, presumably, were "gifts".
this is my first post.
as i am currently disfellowshipped, i have no one else to discuss these things with.
even if i was actively associated with the dubs, i suppose i'd still have no one else to discuss this with.
Finkelstein, that's been such a revelation to me in the last few weeks. I'm currently in the process of acquiring the Gentile Times Reconsidered to study how 1914 was plagiarized. I was born and raised a JW and therefore never questioned the date. I at one point felt quite proud of myself for being among the few in the Spanish field that knew how to explain 1914. How ridiculous I must've sounded to my Bible students, like an absurd world problem on an inconsequential math quiz. It's a long story but I continue to attend meetings for reasons not unique to me though I'm a bit paranoid about giving too many identifiers away. Anyway at the CBS (maybe the "BS" doesn't stand for Bible Study after all) this week, progressively-revealed light was the theme. I almost walked out. It's so suddenly obvious how that idea makes WT unaccountable for any mistakes, as even those would've been God's will. It's maddening.
this is my first post.
as i am currently disfellowshipped, i have no one else to discuss these things with.
even if i was actively associated with the dubs, i suppose i'd still have no one else to discuss this with.
Thanks for that, Onager and Schnell. Seriously. I feel like it's pretty obvious now, but it's still mind-blowing to me. I never did understand "the waters beneath the expanse and above the expanse" before.
Punkofnice, I don't think I could ever be an atheist, as it is my humble opinion that it takes greater faith to be believe that which can not be disproved does not exist than to believe that which can not proved exists. However, I'm not a believer. I sincerely wish that I was, but no matter how hard I've tried I just can't believe. Religions and their sacred books fascinate me and I'll always be curious to explore different theologies. I respect your perspective, though.
Giordano, I'm almost done reading Crisis of Conscience and I have been close enough to Watch Tower's inner circle to know that the claims made are more likely to be true than not. I was not alive at that time and no one in my family was yet affiliated with Watch Tower so I had heretofore known only the version presented in the Proclaimers' book and similarly-skewed publications. I'd welcome any recollections or experiences of the organization in your day.
Thanks again for the warm welcome everyone. These are really the only meaningful interactions I've had since I was df'ed. Seeing as they are just comments on a website, that says a lot about how traumatizing this experience could be if I wasn't already a lone wolf. As a follow-up, I'm very curious to know about WT beliefs that are egregiously extra-biblical or in conflict with the Bible. I am not interested in discussing whether the Bible's authorship is divine. That's neither here nor there to me. I am interested only in how a religion claiming to be based on a book, subverts, goes beyond, or violates those writings.
For example, in Crisis of Conscience, Ray Franz writes, "What plain statement in Scripture could anyone, GB member or anyone else, point to and say, "Here, the Bible clearly says": [...] 5. That the 144,00 in Revelation must be taken as a literal number and that the "great crowd" does not and cannot refer to persons serving in God's heavenly courts? Where do we find those statements in the Bible?"
Should I start a separate thread for that? I'm very grateful for all your responses. :)
this is my first post.
as i am currently disfellowshipped, i have no one else to discuss these things with.
even if i was actively associated with the dubs, i suppose i'd still have no one else to discuss this with.
Thanks for the warm reception, everyone.
berrygerry Huh. I never noticed that before. This JW app sure makes it easy to check for this kind of sneaky manipulation of the Bible.
My suggestion for any thinking ex-JW is to read those academics who have spent a lifetime researching who are without a religious agenda and who are not associated with or affiliated to a religious body.
That's exactly what I'd like to do, Half banana. While not personally a complete subscriber to the Bible, I love religion (in my passive-aggressive way), particularly the Abrahamic faiths. My upbringing has, somewhat ironically, helped tremendously in my secular pursuits, as they revolve around art. Anyway, I'll be sure get around to Dr. Thompson. :)
D/f'd and still attending? You must have a strong constitution!
That's exactly what the JC told me. I think it's just not a very emotional thing for me. I see it as a social experiment.
Watchtower I believe still holds that the creative days were 7000 years or so long.
Well, Watchtower has abandoned the 7,000 year thing. I say "abandoned" because formally acknowledging a shift in thinking would draw attention to yet another failed attempt at chronology. I could be mistaken and there may be something in print, but it must've been glossed over briefly at best.
this is my first post.
as i am currently disfellowshipped, i have no one else to discuss these things with.
even if i was actively associated with the dubs, i suppose i'd still have no one else to discuss this with.
Thanks, middy. As far as meetings go, I think you'll agree attendance is not synonymous with belief.
All religions tailor their respective sacred writings to fit their needs. I was most interested in this particular point because I've never heard it brought up, specifically with regards to the NWT's insistence on rendering "circle" what is clearly meant to be "horizon".
I appreciate your advice. I'll be mindful of keeping things just vague enough.
That's interesting, schnell. I'd meant to look further into that previously but forgot about the Isaiah dispute. It's amusing because the very scripture used to prove scientific accuracy and future insight actually does the opposite, as you stated.
P.S. Not sure if I'm supposed to respond to comments all at once or separately, but whatever. I'll learn. :)
this is my first post.
as i am currently disfellowshipped, i have no one else to discuss these things with.
even if i was actively associated with the dubs, i suppose i'd still have no one else to discuss this with.
