Posts by searchfothetruth

46

Elders coming...i'm shaking in my boots...NOT! Any help?

by searchfothetruth in

i had a phone call last night from one of the elders asking if they can come around.

when i asked him why he said it was to discuss whether i would be interested in having a study.. this is strange as i have been baptised since i was 14 and left about 4 years ago and have had little contact with any witnesses except my parents, but, the only thing that has changed over the last few weeks is that i put together a 50 page report documenting a range of subjects including the un involvment etc and give it to my mum.

then within a week the elders want to ask my to have a study!.

searchfothetruth

I've just posted a new topic with what happened at the meeting.

34

Elder came...grasped at straws...and left. UPDATE!

by searchfothetruth in

well i had a very interesting conversation on friday night.

sorry to be so long letting you know what happened.. only one elder turned up and i was wrong in my original thought that my mum had given him my report, it seems he was coming to ask me to study, therefore he was totally unprepared for what was about to happen to him.

but, i have to say, that he was the most honest elder i have spoke to and i'm sure you will be surprised by some of the things he said.. he started off wanting to know what made me stop going to the meetings and i related to him my experiences of a certain body of elders that had, to say the least, made me realise that they thought that they were a law unto themselves (including stealing, lying and generally being un-christian).

searchfothetruth

Well I had a very interesting conversation on Friday night. Sorry to be so long letting you know what happened.

Only one Elder turned up and I was wrong in my original thought that my mum had given him my report, it seems he was coming to ask me to study, therefore he was totally unprepared for what was about to happen to him. But, I have to say, that he was the most honest Elder I have spoke to and I'm sure you will be surprised by some of the things he said.

He started off wanting to know what made me stop going to the meetings and I related to him my experiences of a certain body of Elders that had, to say the least, made me realise that they thought that they were a law unto themselves (including stealing, lying and generally being un-christian). But, to my surprise he didn't dismiss this as I thought he would, he said that he was a stand in circuit overseer and has to prepare a talk for the circuit assembly in a few weeks and every Elders name he has put forward to help him with the item the Overseer has said no that they are not spiritual enough. He said that the society have directed overseers to look at all servants and elders and make sure that they have 'proof' of there spirituality. I thought this was a very important thing because in saying so has basically admitted that there are a lack of Elders that are showing the correct attitude and spirituality.

I then changed the subject and talked about the UN involvement. I have taken a lot of time getting all the facts right and have all document scanned and printed. I started by asking if there would be any reason in the world why the society would join the UN and he strongly said No as they were a political organisation. I went through evidence and asked him to comment and he just looked at me and said he would have to go away and do some research on it. I gave him a copy of all the documentation and decided to move onto something else. I think his silence was enough of a reaction for now.

Then I told him that the main reason I didn't think the society was God's channel wass due to the failed prophecies over the last 100+ years. The main one affecting me being the change of the generation in 1995. I asked him what would have happened if I had gone to the Elders in 1993 and told them I didn't believe in the Generation prophecy as stated by the society, and I was disfellowshipped, when the society changed this view would I have been apologised to and reinstated? He said that the only way I would have been disfellowshipped for having a different view is if I was trying to convince others of this view and he then showed me 2 John 9 which says about running ahead of Jehovah.

I made the point that the 4 worldly publications that the society used to get to this new conclusion were over 100 years old ( and he agreed with me ) Why the society took over 100 years to come to the conclusion that these other writers had come to earlier. He said that the society gives its followers the food it needs at certain times and doesn't claim to be infallible. I mentioned about 1975 and about the disilusionment of many brothers when the end didn't come and this is were his comments got really interesting. He said that Jehovah was behind the false prophecy to bring about a sifting work. I then asked why would Jehovah sift out the ones who obviously were the most zealous and who were affected most by this false prophecy and he replied that they were obviously just worried about saving there own lives and not about serving Jehovah!

The most important thing he said all night came next. He said "Although we say we have 'The Truth' it may not be THE ACTUAL TRUTH but it is the Truth that Jehovah wants us to have at that moment in time."

Well I was a bit dumbstruck for a minute. I asked him when in the bible Jehovah ever gave a prophet a false prophecy to test people, or when He EVER changed his mind on anything. He said that todays circumstances were different. I then asked him to give me one example of a prophecy that the society had gotten right. He couldn't say anything. I then asked if the society would be bloodguilty for stumbling honest hearted ones with a false teaching. He said that they made predictions because they were anxious to keep people awake. I asked him if they were presumptuous in making them predictions ( trap ) and he went and said Yes. I showed him Deutronomy 18:22. He then still denied that they were false prophets and that the prophecies were what were needed at the time.

He then brought up Matthew 24:45-47. Ah (I thought) I can use the advise given by AlanF regarding these verses. He read them and I then asked him to read the previous verses and the verses after and made the point that these were to be fulfilled in the future, so then 45-47 should be in the future. But he made a good point in that he said that the scripture is asking who appointed his domestics which was in past tense and had already been done.

I brought up the child abuse issue and he made some very interesting points on this also. He said that he had been involved in 'many' cases and he and the other elders were frustrated with the biblical law of the 2 witnesses but it was in the bible so he couldn't change that but he then said that he believes all elders should immediately call in the police because they were not trained for child abuse councelling. I thought this was honest of him and but made the point that if the societies claim of aclean organisation is to believed then this behavior wouldn't occur so frequently. He actually agreed with me! I asked him why, if an elder is chosen by Holy Spirit, why can molesters and criminals be appointed as elders and he said that if the person fulfills all the requirements at the time, and can 'fool' the elders into recommending him then there is nothing the society can do. I then pointed out that what he had just said contradicts and therefore undermines the elders authority. He said that the Holy Spirit justs assists in making the decision, doesn't actually make the decision. (?)

We then had an in depth discusion on 1914 and how the society reached this date. I asked when the fall of Babylon was and he put his hand up and said that he knows there is No secular agreement with the societies position but he would believe the bible over secular historians. I then mentioned that Russel used pyramidology to get to 1914 and that he also made a mistake by not missing a year for the year 0. He then said that Russel also made another mistake which cancelled out the first mistake to then give the correct year and so obviously Jehovah was behind these mistakes to get the society to the right dates ( I could not believe he said that ) He then said that we shouldn't look at the societies literature earlier than the 1950's as they were still learning. I then pointed out that Jesus was supposed to have come and inspected them in 1919 and so if they were not doing what was right, why did they get his blessing. He answered that Jesus knew what they would become in the future.

We were talking for over 3 and a half hours so these were just the highlights. But I didn't expect some of the answers that I got and I only got confirmation throughout that I am right in my belief that the society does not 'The Truth' and that they are in a lot of trouble with quality of there Elders at the moment.

He said that he would contact me in a few weeks when he has finished with his preparation for the assembly and he would do some research to give me some better answers to my worries. I left it at that and on a good note because he gave quite a lot away and I would be interested to speak to him again.

63

Virgin Birth Claim Disproves Biblical Inspiration

by AlanF in

many bible believers claim that the old testament contains over 300 so-called messianic prophecies.

however, a careful look at such claims shows that at least 80% of these have absolutely no connection with jesus, or with events beyond what the ancient writer was concerned with.. take, for example, the famous example of the supposed virgin birth of jesus.

this is based on the text of matthew 1:18-23 (nasb):18 now the birth of jesus christ was as follows: when his mother mary had been betrothed to joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the holy spirit.

searchfothetruth

That last post was probably the best i've ever done!

What I meant to say was that I think Isaiah was actually talking about his own wife when he said 'Look the maiden...' which makes it all the more ridiculous.

63

Virgin Birth Claim Disproves Biblical Inspiration

by AlanF in

many bible believers claim that the old testament contains over 300 so-called messianic prophecies.

however, a careful look at such claims shows that at least 80% of these have absolutely no connection with jesus, or with events beyond what the ancient writer was concerned with.. take, for example, the famous example of the supposed virgin birth of jesus.

this is based on the text of matthew 1:18-23 (nasb):18 now the birth of jesus christ was as follows: when his mother mary had been betrothed to joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the holy spirit.

searchfothetruth

46

Elders coming...i'm shaking in my boots...NOT! Any help?

by searchfothetruth in

i had a phone call last night from one of the elders asking if they can come around.

when i asked him why he said it was to discuss whether i would be interested in having a study.. this is strange as i have been baptised since i was 14 and left about 4 years ago and have had little contact with any witnesses except my parents, but, the only thing that has changed over the last few weeks is that i put together a 50 page report documenting a range of subjects including the un involvment etc and give it to my mum.

then within a week the elders want to ask my to have a study!.

searchfothetruth

blueblades,

Revelation 22:12 has changed from jehovah to jesus so many times over the years it is unbelievable

46

Elders coming...i'm shaking in my boots...NOT! Any help?

by searchfothetruth in

i had a phone call last night from one of the elders asking if they can come around.

when i asked him why he said it was to discuss whether i would be interested in having a study.. this is strange as i have been baptised since i was 14 and left about 4 years ago and have had little contact with any witnesses except my parents, but, the only thing that has changed over the last few weeks is that i put together a 50 page report documenting a range of subjects including the un involvment etc and give it to my mum.

then within a week the elders want to ask my to have a study!.

searchfothetruth

The society believed at the time of 'the inspection' that C.T.russell was the faithful and discreet slave. The first mention of the Governing Body in the Watchtower literature was 1944 and so how can we be trusting of the governing body now when the society claims that they have been around since the forming of the org?

46

Elders coming...i'm shaking in my boots...NOT! Any help?

by searchfothetruth in

i had a phone call last night from one of the elders asking if they can come around.

when i asked him why he said it was to discuss whether i would be interested in having a study.. this is strange as i have been baptised since i was 14 and left about 4 years ago and have had little contact with any witnesses except my parents, but, the only thing that has changed over the last few weeks is that i put together a 50 page report documenting a range of subjects including the un involvment etc and give it to my mum.

then within a week the elders want to ask my to have a study!.

searchfothetruth

Will Power

Thants a corker! Keep it coming.

46

Elders coming...i'm shaking in my boots...NOT! Any help?

by searchfothetruth in

i had a phone call last night from one of the elders asking if they can come around.

when i asked him why he said it was to discuss whether i would be interested in having a study.. this is strange as i have been baptised since i was 14 and left about 4 years ago and have had little contact with any witnesses except my parents, but, the only thing that has changed over the last few weeks is that i put together a 50 page report documenting a range of subjects including the un involvment etc and give it to my mum.

then within a week the elders want to ask my to have a study!.

searchfothetruth

But surely the master isn't the society, it must be talking about Jesus?

The society have put themselves in the position of Jesus as the mediator of the great crowd and this isn't what was meant

46

Elders coming...i'm shaking in my boots...NOT! Any help?

by searchfothetruth in

i had a phone call last night from one of the elders asking if they can come around.

when i asked him why he said it was to discuss whether i would be interested in having a study.. this is strange as i have been baptised since i was 14 and left about 4 years ago and have had little contact with any witnesses except my parents, but, the only thing that has changed over the last few weeks is that i put together a 50 page report documenting a range of subjects including the un involvment etc and give it to my mum.

then within a week the elders want to ask my to have a study!.

searchfothetruth

Thanks for all your help everybody. I'll let you know what happened tomorrow night.

Peace. ( Although thats unlikely with 'Dubya' on the prowl)

29

New Order Mormons Forum - JWs Can Learn From LDS Mistakes!

by Derrick in

jw
friends

can jws learn from the latter-day saints mistakes?

i recently ran across a forum for mormons (http://www.aimoo.com/forum/freeboard.cfm?id=319220) that brings back memories of the jw forum hourglass2 outpost (h2o) when it started in the year 1996 (and believe it or not still exists at http://www.geocities.com/hourglass2.geo/).

this new mormon forum is named appropriately "new order mormons" (http://www.aimoo.com/forum/freeboard.cfm?id=319220) and is on the same isp forum site as the h2o forums.

searchfothetruth

The mormons and Jw's are so alike because they were both started by freemasons and have evolved mind control to a new level.

Charles russels father was the founder of the skull and bones society at Yale university that has produced most of the elite of politics and religion over the last 150 yrs including G.W.Bush.

Its no coincidence when you look at parallels of the histories of the two organisations and what they preach