Posts by schnell

38

What Were Your Elders Real World Jobs?

by pale.emperor in

we all know that education is severely demonized in this religion.

and that the elders are appointed based on how many meetings they attend, hours they put in on the ministry and general attitude to other elders (as apposed to, you know, actual theological training and counseling) - so my question is, what were your elders occupations outside the kingdom hall?.

in my old congregation our elders consisted of:.

schnell

I know a few wealthy enough elders here, but most of them weren't so fortunate. My brother tells me he's trying to go part time in his construction business, despite his competition.

What gets me is how much your average JW has saved for retirement.

15

Worship of Men and Emphasis on Titles

by HereIgo in

i remember a few years back at a circuit assembly, a few bros were introducing themselves to the co, they made sure to mention that they were an ms or an elder from such and such cong.

i was also an ms, but was the only one that introduced themselves by just my first name.

i was so irritated and blown away at the arrogance by these bros, trying to impress men with titles!

schnell

I hear you. This was one of my early complaints about announcing new pioneers, etc.

I once had a special pioneer tell me after a couple beers that at Gilead, everyone was there to meet girls. -_-

Funny thing is when "Paul" wrote Timothy about elders and servants (or whatever church hierarchy nomenclature you prefer) that's evidence that it wasn't written by Paul. No, Paul died before 70 CE, and there was probably no hierarchy in the congregation yet. They were awaiting the end of times, as far as they understood it. When you're in for the long haul, that's when you get organized. That's when you get titles.

28

So getting disfellowshipped sounds kind of great.

by schnell in

i grew up in this religion, i was baptized at 14, married at 27, and now i'm 31. i'm also evolutionist and atheist.

i wanted this to be the truth.

i spent years as an apologist trying to reconcile everything.

schnell

I guess they'll have to catch me then. It won't be too hard. My ex-sister-in-law came to our door a couple weeks ago with the sister she studied with. She asked if we're okay, and offered us magazines. We are not on good terms, because she is nuts. I asked them to leave, and I'm sure that made it back to somebody. *shrug*

Just today, my best man messaged me and said he's worried about losing me to the world. I asked him, is that us-and-them mentality healthy? After a back and forth about staying separate from the world and how we're not the only organization that does this, he still refused to answer. I wasn't rude, wasn't mean, I just asked if it's healthy. I told him, "If it is, you can say yes. Hopefully you can easily say yes." He warned me not to bring this up again with him or his brother or our friends. In his head, I know he knows the answer.

I'm sure that got back to someone too.

Probably no one has handled me about this more than my wife and mother. My wife admits a lot of the things I'm saying are right, like the us-and-them mentality against "the world". My mom admits, unbelievably, that SHE DOESN'T CARE if the details are all wrong (thus this isn't the truth) because she wants the new system. I'm really not sure how much of our conversations she carries back to the elder and his wife whom she's buddies with.

Anyway, no tortious action against me yet. If it happens, it happens.

28

So getting disfellowshipped sounds kind of great.

by schnell in

i grew up in this religion, i was baptized at 14, married at 27, and now i'm 31. i'm also evolutionist and atheist.

i wanted this to be the truth.

i spent years as an apologist trying to reconcile everything.

schnell

How could I forget the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius?

Stoicism, now that's a legitimate philosophy to fill the void after religion.

28

So getting disfellowshipped sounds kind of great.

by schnell in

i grew up in this religion, i was baptized at 14, married at 27, and now i'm 31. i'm also evolutionist and atheist.

i wanted this to be the truth.

i spent years as an apologist trying to reconcile everything.

schnell

Oh, I'm sure they won't read it, and I could summarize everything with a list of other books you could read to get the same thing....

Like this:

"30 Years a Watchtower Slave" by Schnell

"The Hero With a Thousand Faces" by Joseph Campbell

"The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins (especially hilarious when he brings up "Life: How Did It Get Here?")

"The Bible Unearthed" by Finkelstein and Silberman

"Forged" by Bart D. Ehrman

"Spooky Science: Debunking the Pseudoscience of the Afterlife" by John Grant

The Ken Ham vs Bill Nye debate on Youtube and anything from Potholer54 or Matt Dillahunty.

And pretty much anything by Alan Watts.

28

So getting disfellowshipped sounds kind of great.

by schnell in

i grew up in this religion, i was baptized at 14, married at 27, and now i'm 31. i'm also evolutionist and atheist.

i wanted this to be the truth.

i spent years as an apologist trying to reconcile everything.

schnell

I'll say this. If I do DA, I want to write a freaking dissertation on every single thing that's wrong with this. They aren't in for a letter. They'll wish they only got a letter.

28

So getting disfellowshipped sounds kind of great.

by schnell in

i grew up in this religion, i was baptized at 14, married at 27, and now i'm 31. i'm also evolutionist and atheist.

i wanted this to be the truth.

i spent years as an apologist trying to reconcile everything.

schnell

@Village Idiot, it's a great book. Comparing that to the Faith in Action videos, you see how much of a jerk Rutherford was and how they still try to paint him in a positive light.

@dubstepped, I hear you. I thought I could just try to ignore everything and be a JW anyway... Cognitive dissonance doesn't allow that for long. The first nice lady out in service who expressed how much she loved the Trinity had me thinking, "She seems happy with this. Why should I debate the details of something I personally find ridiculous?"

@rebel8 (and others making this point) yeah, I agree. I stopped seeing elders as wise sages a long time ago. They're not. Many of them are delusional homophobes who watch Fox News but don't vote. Why would I want this person's opinion on my spirituality?

I fought hard for my wife. I loved her before she was baptized, and the elders looked down on me for it. She has promised not to leave me, even through all this. If she does, then goddammit will I be heartbroken, but I'll let her go because it's her choice. Because I'm not the "head," I'm her partner. Thankfully, I see a lot of the same doubt in her eyes that I've had, and her reaction to stuff like the anti-gay Caleb and Sofia cartoon is priceless!

28

So getting disfellowshipped sounds kind of great.

by schnell in

i grew up in this religion, i was baptized at 14, married at 27, and now i'm 31. i'm also evolutionist and atheist.

i wanted this to be the truth.

i spent years as an apologist trying to reconcile everything.

schnell

@Heaven, heh, Christmas. Never had any desire to celebrate it but I do love my Christmas Vacation and Krampus was freaking awesome!

The whole holiday thing is just weird. I seriously saw a conversation on Facebook where a brother asked if Bosses Day has pagan origins......

28

So getting disfellowshipped sounds kind of great.

by schnell in

i grew up in this religion, i was baptized at 14, married at 27, and now i'm 31. i'm also evolutionist and atheist.

i wanted this to be the truth.

i spent years as an apologist trying to reconcile everything.

schnell

@Pete Zahut, that's been my stance so far. I believe you're right. It gets annoying and even painful when people ask me, or ask my wife about me. It's the worst when a nice, wonderful brother who's dying, whose whole reason for waking up in the morning is because of his beliefs, wants to talk to me about them. I am not enough of an asshole to challenge that and take his faith away from him.

All the other cultist dorks who should know better, the ones who rationalize all the faults and failures by looking forward to the new scrolls in the new system, I can sort of deal with and would rather shoo away. The old ladies who think Buddhists worship a god named Buddha... they can take an especially long hike.

28

So getting disfellowshipped sounds kind of great.

by schnell in

i grew up in this religion, i was baptized at 14, married at 27, and now i'm 31. i'm also evolutionist and atheist.

i wanted this to be the truth.

i spent years as an apologist trying to reconcile everything.

schnell

@Giordano, fantastic response! Thank you so much! I have some reading to do tonight.

And hell yeah, never better!