Posts by schnell

17

This should make most reasonable people stop believing in the Bible as infallible

by ILoveTTATT2 in

i think that few parts of the bible can make you atheist or at least agnostic or at least kill your belief in the bible as infallible or the work of a loving god as comparing 2 samuel 24 with 1 chronicles 21. most people focus on the 1st verse, but there are at least 4 major and 1 minor contradiction in the chapter (they are parallel accounts).in the new world translation, 2 samuel 24 starts like this:.

24 and again the anger of jehovah came to be hot against israel, when one incited david against them, saying: “go, take a count of israel and judah.” .

notice that it is an impersonal "one" who incited david to do the census.

schnell

@Crazyguy, hey! Jehovah doesn't change, sir!

Not even when he goes from a raging tyrant to a God of love in the new testament.

Not even when when everything terrible he ever did gets attributed to an accuser.

Not even when he goes from being one god among many acknowledged gods to being the only God.

Not even when he has a fleshly human son who is mythologized years later as if he were a Greek demigod.

Not even when he and his son basically become the same thing because there can't be two gods if there's only one.

And not even when some dorks in 19th century America decide they aren't really the same god after all, and that this Jehovah is sort of a cross product of the god of the old testament and the god of the new testament, a God of Love who'd still kill some disrespectful young kids with bears and end the world even though he regretted doing that before.

32

Intelligent design thought.

by Crazyguy in

ok god designed this planet and then most everything on it intelligently yet 97% of the water on the earth is un drinkable.

schnell

I don't find that anything in science makes the world around me less interesting. It's actually fascinating, and quite moreso than philosophizing about a personified creator. Especially if you then have to backtrack that personification and say the creator is shapeless, timeless, and positionless.

32

Intelligent design thought.

by Crazyguy in

ok god designed this planet and then most everything on it intelligently yet 97% of the water on the earth is un drinkable.

schnell

So, if I have it figured right, you are a faithful deist whose arguments seem to suggest a potential slide towards agnosticism, as you admit that this creator has essentially no connection with us or our goings on. You simply want to believe, and you don't quite want to go over that slide.

While it's true that we don't know everything, we do know plenty, and we learn more all the time. As the place for God in our philosophy becomes smaller and smaller, why is it necessary at all?

32

Intelligent design thought.

by Crazyguy in

ok god designed this planet and then most everything on it intelligently yet 97% of the water on the earth is un drinkable.

schnell

If a creator is the cause. . . Where is the creator? What is the creator? Does it ever have at least one position in the physical universe? Is the creator beyond or outside the physical universe? Is it or does it have anything at all to do with any supernatural deity humans have ever named or worshiped in history? What's its mechanism for any kind of contact with humans if anything? Does any of this matter at all?

And then the classic: Does it know everything? Can it do everything? Is it everywhere?

17

This should make most reasonable people stop believing in the Bible as infallible

by ILoveTTATT2 in

i think that few parts of the bible can make you atheist or at least agnostic or at least kill your belief in the bible as infallible or the work of a loving god as comparing 2 samuel 24 with 1 chronicles 21. most people focus on the 1st verse, but there are at least 4 major and 1 minor contradiction in the chapter (they are parallel accounts).in the new world translation, 2 samuel 24 starts like this:.

24 and again the anger of jehovah came to be hot against israel, when one incited david against them, saying: “go, take a count of israel and judah.” .

notice that it is an impersonal "one" who incited david to do the census.

schnell

Think about that last part. The Israelites were Canaanites. Read the book, it's on Scribd if you can get it there and this raises any questions for you.

But think about it. It lends credence to the idea that Yahweh and Elohim were Israelite forms of Baal.

It even helps to explain the cultural misogyny as Yahweh/Elohim becomes the dominant deity and he's at war with Ashtoreth, and as Eve and Jezebel are demonized in the resulting sacred texts.

And speaking of Jezebel, the Bible Unearthed has a LOT to say about the House of Omri and all that it did, and all that was attributed instead to Solomon.

17

This should make most reasonable people stop believing in the Bible as infallible

by ILoveTTATT2 in

i think that few parts of the bible can make you atheist or at least agnostic or at least kill your belief in the bible as infallible or the work of a loving god as comparing 2 samuel 24 with 1 chronicles 21. most people focus on the 1st verse, but there are at least 4 major and 1 minor contradiction in the chapter (they are parallel accounts).in the new world translation, 2 samuel 24 starts like this:.

24 and again the anger of jehovah came to be hot against israel, when one incited david against them, saying: “go, take a count of israel and judah.” .

notice that it is an impersonal "one" who incited david to do the census.

schnell

Some highlights from the Bible Unearthed:

* It's well known that Moses did not write the Tanakh and has been for some time. His very existence is questionable as well.

* Egypt had an extensive defense network along the path the Israelites were said to have taken, and Canaan was a vassal of Egypt at the time.

* Who are the Israelites after all? Take a wild guess. The book goes onto talk about the Hyksos, etc. That's in there. But what are the Israelites? "The early Israelites were—irony of ironies—themselves originally Canaanites!"

17

This should make most reasonable people stop believing in the Bible as infallible

by ILoveTTATT2 in

i think that few parts of the bible can make you atheist or at least agnostic or at least kill your belief in the bible as infallible or the work of a loving god as comparing 2 samuel 24 with 1 chronicles 21. most people focus on the 1st verse, but there are at least 4 major and 1 minor contradiction in the chapter (they are parallel accounts).in the new world translation, 2 samuel 24 starts like this:.

24 and again the anger of jehovah came to be hot against israel, when one incited david against them, saying: “go, take a count of israel and judah.” .

notice that it is an impersonal "one" who incited david to do the census.

schnell

https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869136

I think you'll enjoy this a lot.

17

This should make most reasonable people stop believing in the Bible as infallible

by ILoveTTATT2 in

i think that few parts of the bible can make you atheist or at least agnostic or at least kill your belief in the bible as infallible or the work of a loving god as comparing 2 samuel 24 with 1 chronicles 21. most people focus on the 1st verse, but there are at least 4 major and 1 minor contradiction in the chapter (they are parallel accounts).in the new world translation, 2 samuel 24 starts like this:.

24 and again the anger of jehovah came to be hot against israel, when one incited david against them, saying: “go, take a count of israel and judah.” .

notice that it is an impersonal "one" who incited david to do the census.

schnell

Yeah pretty much. Was Jesus killed at 9 am or noon? The day before passover or afterward?

And how about that King Josiah? What a guy.

32

Intelligent design thought.

by Crazyguy in

ok god designed this planet and then most everything on it intelligently yet 97% of the water on the earth is un drinkable.

schnell

Don't think I'm attacking you either, prologos. This is an interesting discussion.

32

Intelligent design thought.

by Crazyguy in

ok god designed this planet and then most everything on it intelligently yet 97% of the water on the earth is un drinkable.

schnell

I suppose that juries have convicted men for simply having the right conditions to commit the charged crime, but juries have also demanded more evidence, and even reassessed cases like this.

Who says efficiency is really the driving force? Does it have to be? It's true that nature is extravagant, but isn't it enough to appreciate a garden without also having to believe there fairies at the bottom of it?

Are natural laws the product of an intelligent force, or an effect themselves? If you have two apples, and I give you two more apples, you will then have a number of apples equal to the sum of 2 and 2 which we call 4 but could have been called anything. The names and observations might be laid down by an intelligent person, but the effect being observed, hardly so.

How is man's cruelty proof of God?

"Limited use design seems to be a feature of the past." I don't know what you mean by the last line or how it relates to the discussion, but Lao-Tze was talking about seeing other uses for things a long time ago.