Posts by schnell

11

"I'm firm in my beliefs": Hypocrisy and Delusion

by schnell in

jw
friends

i have a friend who said he'll have to stop listening to me after i told him about yahweh's origins in canaanite religion, because he's firm in his beliefs.. i have a mother who said she goes to the meetings even if it's wrong, and i should too.

she is also firm in her beliefs.. i have talked to an elder about evolution, and as i made the case for it and against creationism, he said that at some point i have to decide that there is a creator.

he too is firm in his beliefs.. all of these people will also talk about going out in service.

schnell

I have a friend who said he'll have to stop listening to me after I told him about Yahweh's origins in Canaanite religion, because he's firm in his beliefs.

I have a mother who said she goes to the meetings even if it's wrong, and I should too. She is also firm in her beliefs.

I have talked to an elder about evolution, and as I made the case for it and against creationism, he said that at some point I have to decide that there is a creator. He too is firm in his beliefs.

All of these people will also talk about going out in service. What do they do? They tell other people about their beliefs and look for interest (or circumstantial misfortune). However they slice it, they are confronting other people about their beliefs.

I don't understand this at all. When your beliefs are scrutinized and beaten down and on the ropes, you can't defend them anymore but maintain them anyway because you're "firm in your beliefs". And so are those at home when you knock on their doors. Confronting them is thus hypocritical, and that kind of faith is intellectually dishonest and delusional.

This is why I was so passive on my last days in service. I was the one on the nice lady's front porch, and she was the one telling me about the Trinity. I just listened to her. You know. Like a person. She was happy in her beliefs and I was essentially trespassing if I didn't behave. Had I been paired with an elder, it may have turned rather ugly, and yet that elder would not then ever consider that he's worshipping a Canaanite storm god.

29

Do any of the governing body of JWs exercise their conscience?

by Half banana in

the members of the governing body, by being at the reins of a large corporation, must be confronted with situations which force them to think about the validity of their doctrines.. the australian royal commission hearing must have highlighted for the gb, especially jackson, the rational inconsistency of using an iron age dictum of "two witnesses" in a world which has moved beyond such rough justice.

today we have a scientific approach, we examine forensically, we have psychologists who can tell us about individual's minds and behaviour.

today, children's voices are not ignored.. the first and last resort of jws and their leaders is the doctrine of the "inerrancy of the bible".

schnell

Oh they're nuts, and I promptly told my friend about Losch's court statement to Judge Lewis in San Diego. He didn't know how to rationalize that other than to brush it aside.

I don't understand this friend. He came to my house the other day to confront me again about our beliefs, and said, "I've been where you are before, and ya know trust me, the answer is God and religion and..." Yep, the answer to the problem is the problem. That's how this works.

3

Idée fixe

by Half banana in

i am in france at the moment and hence this french expression used in english speaking psychiatry crossed my mind: the expression is idée fixe (pron.

eeday fix).

this describes the condition in an individual who holds an obsessive attachment to a point of view which is unresponsive to reason and argument.

schnell

Interesting. Another term would be delusion, or religious delusion (see: religio).

I don't know, but I have been accused of something similar: Intolerance and presupposition that the Watchtower is wrong. The difference is not that I am correct or need to be correct, but that I wanted the Watchtower to be the truth and can now fully substantiate the case that they are wrong.

27

JW Policy Regarding "Marking" From The Nov 2016 WT

by JW_Rogue in

jws will deny that local needs parts are often just a way to mark those in the congregation who are deemed to be "bad association" or who don't fall in line with the elders viewpoints.

now, for the first time in a long time the wt discusses their marking policy and how it works in the nov study wt:.

recall paul’s counsel regarding disorderly ones in the congregation.

schnell

2 Thessalonians is evidently a forgery anyway, because there is a disparity about the imminence of Jesus' second coming as stated in 1 Thessalonians, where Paul clearly believes he will see it himself:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17)

But, good luck explaining that to the true believers.

4

4 million year old superbug in a cave in New Mexico

by schnell in

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/12/10/504691357/million-year-old-hero-bug-emerges-from-cave.

this is pretty fascinating.

paenibacillum is not pathogenic, but is absolutely battle-hardened as far as bacteria go, having spent 4 million years in a 1600' deep cave that takes 10,000 years to get water from the surface and never sees sunlight..

schnell

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/12/10/504691357/million-year-old-hero-bug-emerges-from-cave

This is pretty fascinating. Paenibacillum is not pathogenic, but is absolutely battle-hardened as far as bacteria go, having spent 4 million years in a 1600' deep cave that takes 10,000 years to get water from the surface and NEVER sees sunlight.

29

Do any of the governing body of JWs exercise their conscience?

by Half banana in

the members of the governing body, by being at the reins of a large corporation, must be confronted with situations which force them to think about the validity of their doctrines.. the australian royal commission hearing must have highlighted for the gb, especially jackson, the rational inconsistency of using an iron age dictum of "two witnesses" in a world which has moved beyond such rough justice.

today we have a scientific approach, we examine forensically, we have psychologists who can tell us about individual's minds and behaviour.

today, children's voices are not ignored.. the first and last resort of jws and their leaders is the doctrine of the "inerrancy of the bible".

schnell

My friend met Losch and asked him about the generations. Losch put his arm around him and said, "I know, we've gotten a lot of things wrong... But look ar how much we've got right!"

I've heard similar arguments from a special pioneer who was in their presence, so that seems to be the prevailing delusion.

17

Should a Priest ,Elder ,Pastor withold a crime from the relevant authorities because of a confidential confessional ?

by smiddy in

what do you believe , is a confessional something that is sacred between the the two parties involved ?

or does it depend on the severity of the crime/sin.. or is their a responsability of the recpient of the confession to divulge what he/she knows about the crime.?.

what we see in movies ,tv, etc shows it is a no no .but is that true ?the confessional is only between the two involved.?.

schnell

I am not in favor of ecclesiastical privilege and would happily vote against it.

27

JW Policy Regarding "Marking" From The Nov 2016 WT

by JW_Rogue in

jws will deny that local needs parts are often just a way to mark those in the congregation who are deemed to be "bad association" or who don't fall in line with the elders viewpoints.

now, for the first time in a long time the wt discusses their marking policy and how it works in the nov study wt:.

recall paul’s counsel regarding disorderly ones in the congregation.

schnell

The most memorable marking talk I ever heard centered on a young woman with a young daughter who'd left her boyfriend and had to raise their young daughter on her own. She was evidently pregnant, facing life as a single parent in a high unemployment area, and she made the decision to have an abortion.

The rumor mill went wild. The elders claimed to be unaware, and said that these women should have come to them instead of spreading rumors all over the place about this poor young woman.

But then, at the climax of this talk, the brother said that the young woman will have to face Jehovah for her decision, and if she dies, then the gossipers will die along with her.

I never saw her at a meeting again.

27

JW Policy Regarding "Marking" From The Nov 2016 WT

by JW_Rogue in

jws will deny that local needs parts are often just a way to mark those in the congregation who are deemed to be "bad association" or who don't fall in line with the elders viewpoints.

now, for the first time in a long time the wt discusses their marking policy and how it works in the nov study wt:.

recall paul’s counsel regarding disorderly ones in the congregation.

schnell

They made a marking talk about independent research?

Oh that is low.

17

Did you ever think about being persecuted?

by Funchback in

i was introduced to the jw religion at the age of 7. i can't recall when i was taught about having to suffer persecution in the so-called last days, but i do remember thinking that i would crumble under pressure.. as i entered my young adult years, i imagined how governments would persecute us.

i had thoughts of being tortured for information and then how i would say anything to the torturer just to stop the pain and then be labeled a modern-day judas, missing out on everlasting life.. the jw way of life and expectations are both scary and unrealistic.. i am glad i have canceled armageddon.

also, if i should ever be tortured for some belief or principle, i shall remain strong until the end.

schnell

Heartbreaking, blondie. I am so sorry.

I grew up being warned about the Big GT/A, and yet I grew up with all the news about Rwanda, Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan. Even today, I struggle to rationalize how an American religion can talk so much about tribulations (who the hell else uses that word so often?) when Yemen and Syria have been embroiled in civil war for years now.

But, my old friends don't see that. Nope, nope, they almost look forward to being persecuted...

My mom texted me, asked where I'll be "when we are persecuted". I told her, "Probably bringing my mom and brother food and stuff until you decide it's okay to come out."