My favorite was when they'd say we shouldn't pursue our dreams and businesses and ideas in this system, since we can do that in the NEXT system...
Living for the future. That's all that is.
schnell
JoinedPosts by schnell
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6
Hope deferred
by life is to short inproverbs 13:12 "hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life.
i have heard this before from dave ramesy about finances and how if you can never see an end in sight to get out of debt, if you always are making nothing to live on and getting nowhere with no hope of it ever changing, you just give up.
thank god's it's friday and oh god it's monday breaks your spirit.. i was reading this book by henry cloud and he expounds on this and says "there are few sicknesses of the heart like hope deferred.
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Scriptures rarely mentioned
by dothemath ina couple of examples of scriptures hardly ever quoted is 1 tim.
2:12- "i do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence".
or verse 11- "let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness.".
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schnell
@fastJehu, but was anyone there to hear it? Did it make a sound? :P
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the Book of Enoch and the Nephilim
by schnell ini've heard all my cognizant life that angels from heaven looked upon the daughters of men, took wives, and their wives bore giants called nephilim.. i've heard all my adult life about the book of enoch and why it's apocryphal and to be avoided.. so tonight i was curious enough to download an e-book and have a look, since dothemath had the thread about rarely used scriptures and the book of jude directly quotes from the book of enoch.. if jude quotes from enoch, shouldn't both or neither of them be canonical?
if you consider jude canonical, then enoch should be too.. hey, how many fallen angels were there again?
two thirds of heaven, right?
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schnell
Hmm. I didn't know that about Marcion, very interesting.
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"Don't listen to apostates!!"
by Schnufti innext time a jw says that to me, i will ask him to read the following from "what does the bible really teach":.
watchtower itself uses this illustration.
so why is it that they throw apostates out of the congregation?.
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schnell
@Vidiot naturally!
Hey, remember the early 90s article about how sarcasm is like a bad thing? I sure do.
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the Book of Enoch and the Nephilim
by schnell ini've heard all my cognizant life that angels from heaven looked upon the daughters of men, took wives, and their wives bore giants called nephilim.. i've heard all my adult life about the book of enoch and why it's apocryphal and to be avoided.. so tonight i was curious enough to download an e-book and have a look, since dothemath had the thread about rarely used scriptures and the book of jude directly quotes from the book of enoch.. if jude quotes from enoch, shouldn't both or neither of them be canonical?
if you consider jude canonical, then enoch should be too.. hey, how many fallen angels were there again?
two thirds of heaven, right?
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schnell
@David_Jay, the problem with Paul's quoting Greek poetry is false equivalence. The Greek poets were not writing about the Jewish or Christian god or any other characters from Jewish lore. The author of Enoch was. The greater point, of course, is that these books are not inspired by God (and I mean an actual deity rather than a metaphor). This is shown again and again and again. Defining God as a metaphor for something universal, psychological, and political within and all about us does not really help.
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"Don't listen to apostates!!"
by Schnufti innext time a jw says that to me, i will ask him to read the following from "what does the bible really teach":.
watchtower itself uses this illustration.
so why is it that they throw apostates out of the congregation?.
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schnell
And you're right, no wonder the Org hates XJWs more than virtually anything else, and also why they've historically concentrated so hard on compelling members to stay even if they had doubts. It had never really occurred to me before, but the WTS must have a very deep-seated fear of schisms and mass exoduses (exodi?).
From their perspective, the simple act of people leaving has seriously threatened - and therefore continues to seriously threaten - the Org's very existence.
And I'm sure that fear is for the followers' own lives, for the coming day of destruction... Even though, if they ever did announce, "WE ARE IN THE GREAT TRIBULATION! E'RYBODY IN THE BUNKER, HIDE YO KIDS, HIDE YO WIVES..." then they would have another schism. People would wake up and leave. Again. And hence, all this talk about the GT/A is one big bluff.
I would take the name Road Hammer, but I mostly drive Internationals, so nah. :P
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Is it OK for JW employees to sell lottery tickets?
by Iamallcool ini do remember reading an article that it is not ok for jw to sell cigarettes at gas stations, etc... i was wondering what about lottery tickets?
they do sell lottery tickets at few restaurants around my home.
if jw works there and rats me out to the elders, i would not give a damn about it but i still prefer not to hear from the elders about it..
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schnell
@tepidpoultry Oh god I love that one about the Jeopardy question. It is so stupid. As I reasoned with my roommate at the time, "Why should we validate our belief in our translation of the Holy Bible based on a game show?"
Another one that irked me was an email that spread like wildfire to JWs about the movie Avatar. It mostly centered on the word, "avatar", which apparently this JW family had only just discovered. Thus the pretty mediocre movie had PAGAN ORIGINS!!!1. And holy shit did people believe it. It was the dumbest shit.
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Is this a normal JW practice? Warning, this will be a bit graphic.
by Sequoia inthis post may be disturbing and i apologize, but i'm just trying to find out if this is a practice the jw teaches.
i was taken advantage of by a guy claiming to be a jw preacher.
he took me to his house supposedly so i could give his daughter piano lessons, and then he basically forced himself on me while telling me he was in love with me and wanted to marry me.
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schnell
o_O
If this is genuine, call the police. Geez.
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the Book of Enoch and the Nephilim
by schnell ini've heard all my cognizant life that angels from heaven looked upon the daughters of men, took wives, and their wives bore giants called nephilim.. i've heard all my adult life about the book of enoch and why it's apocryphal and to be avoided.. so tonight i was curious enough to download an e-book and have a look, since dothemath had the thread about rarely used scriptures and the book of jude directly quotes from the book of enoch.. if jude quotes from enoch, shouldn't both or neither of them be canonical?
if you consider jude canonical, then enoch should be too.. hey, how many fallen angels were there again?
two thirds of heaven, right?
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schnell
@David_Jay, it looks like your reply was swallowed up by formatting issues, so I'll (somewhat ironically) repeat it. :P Always good to hear from you on this!
"Canonicity" was a response to the challenge of Marcionism, and understanding a bit about that explains why certain books did not end up in the Christian canon.
Marcion of Sinope was a bishop who, influenced by Gnosticism, became a heretic. Like the Gnostics, Marcion taught that salvation was possible only through gaining special "gnosis," or knowledge. Holy writ (religious texts) from various cults were often believed to have the ultimate form of revelation hidden in their words, but they could only be understood by those "chosen" to understand them.
Marcion adapted Gnostic belief into his form of Christianity. He rejected the God of Abraham in favor of Jesus (in the primitive Church it has already been decided that Jesus was some sort of epiphany of the God of Abraham, an "incarnation" of the Shekinah or "Light" of God [see John 1:4-9]). Marcion claimed that Jesus was not the YHVH but a superior and kinder god, and that Paul was his primary apostle. Marcion also taught that though only "chosen ones" had the ability to understand the "hidden knowledge" found in holy writ, this "gnosis" could be disseminated by the chosen to those who joined them.
As for "holy writ" Marcion made a "rule" (in Greek, KANON) that only select letters of the apostle Paul were true, and the gospel of Luke (with all Jewish references edited out). Marcionism was born and attracted many followers.
In response, the Church (which up till that time believed that the Hebrew Scriptures were the only form of holy writ inspired of God) responded by excommunicating Marcion. But the genie had been let out of the bottle, so to speak, never to get back in. Were the books of Luke and some of Paul’s letters inspired like the Hebrew Scriptures?Marcion got his idea about these books because early Christian worship services were liturgical, actually imitations of Jewish synagogue services which read the Torah and the other holy books on a schedule much like Jews do today (and Christians that follow the Revised Common Lectionary based on the Roman Catholic liturgical calendar). After reading from the scheduled Tanakh readings, the Christians would add brief portions from one of the gospels or epistles that “interpreted” the Old Testament reading. Marcion got his “rule” of books from these additional Christian readings.
The leaders of the Church began to investigate as to whether any of their books were inspired. To do so they set their own “rule,” that it basically had to be apostolic in nature or written under the auspices of the same. The books had to be those commonly read in liturgical services across the world. It would take 200 years after Marcion before the Church had the New Testament “rule” or “canon” settled and the issue closed.
The books were not chosen by popularity or merely because they were quoted by other authors. For instance, Paul quotes from Greek poetry in Acts but this doesn’t mean that the writings of the Greeks is inspired. (Acts 17:28) Therefore just because there is a quote from a book like Enoch does not mean that it is inspired. Also, it appears Luke was added to prove Marcion wrong. Luke’s gospel is not apostolic, but it is very thorough, and it follows the same sources of Matthew and Mark (Mark wrote under the auspice of Peter, or so the understanding has been). There are also more letters from Paul than any other apostle, though he was not one of the original twelve and even history testifies that Petrine authority was recognized. This choices may have been to counter Marcionism. -
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the Book of Enoch and the Nephilim
by schnell ini've heard all my cognizant life that angels from heaven looked upon the daughters of men, took wives, and their wives bore giants called nephilim.. i've heard all my adult life about the book of enoch and why it's apocryphal and to be avoided.. so tonight i was curious enough to download an e-book and have a look, since dothemath had the thread about rarely used scriptures and the book of jude directly quotes from the book of enoch.. if jude quotes from enoch, shouldn't both or neither of them be canonical?
if you consider jude canonical, then enoch should be too.. hey, how many fallen angels were there again?
two thirds of heaven, right?
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schnell
@Blondie I bought an e-book version for $0.99 on Google Play Books. There are free scans online as well, and I used the Wikipedia entry to navigate around and find what's interesting.
If Jude 14 and 15 quote a common source, what is the source? Here is 1 Enoch 2:1.
Behold, he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all the carnal for everything which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him.
Compare to Jude 14 and 15. Forgiving translation, it is a direct quote.
I have a very indoctrinated JW friend who said the Book of Enoch and/or Book of Barnabas is the source of the idea behind 1975 as well, that the end would come 6000 years after Adam's creation. I will look into that, but can anyone validate this?