"Hey guys! So, a lot of you know about our recent lawsuits. LOL embarrassing, right?! Well we need some money now, we've done our downsizing and such, we're paying our legal fees, etc. etc. And ya know what else? It may surprise you that we have a means to protect our investment at Walkill which so many of you invested your time and energy and money into... We have to pay some contractors back for a remote control lake. Hurricanes, amirite?!"
schnell
JoinedPosts by schnell
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41
What Comes After the Watchtower Collapse?
by schnell ini was going to put this in my thread about pyramid schemes, but i thought it's discreet enough to warrant its own.
1) there are many faithful jws.
2) there are many men and women who could take control and fill the void if the watchtower collapses.
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2013 NWT - Conveniently Circular
by theunbeliever inthis is my first post.
as i am currently disfellowshipped, i have no one else to discuss these things with.
even if i was actively associated with the dubs, i suppose i'd still have no one else to discuss this with.
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schnell
The "Jesus believed it, therefore it must be true" argument is circular reasoning. It's a fallacy. If Isaiah 40 onward wasn't written by Isaiah, and the writer who wrote Luke wrote that Jesus read from Isaiah 61, that *should* cast doubt on either Jesus or the gospel attributed to Luke.
And if a scribe copying this in the *second* century continues from chapter 39 to 40, so the hell what? Seriously, Insight, you're hilarious.
Great call on the circle thing, too. It's not the only place you find a flat Earth in the Bible.
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2013 NWT - Conveniently Circular
by theunbeliever inthis is my first post.
as i am currently disfellowshipped, i have no one else to discuss these things with.
even if i was actively associated with the dubs, i suppose i'd still have no one else to discuss this with.
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schnell
It's funny that they go right to Isaiah 40. I personally love the Insight book's statement on that. Insight On The Scriptures is unintentionally hilarious at times.
Unity of Writership. Certain Bible critics in modern times have contended that the book of Isaiah was not all written by Isaiah. Some claim that chapters 40 through 66 were written by an unidentified person who lived about the time of the end of the Jews’ Babylonian exile. Other critics pare off additional portions of the book, theorizing that someone other than Isaiah must have written them. But the Bible itself does not agree with these contentions.
(...)
Jesus Christ himself, when he read from “the scroll of the prophet Isaiah” at the synagogue in Nazareth, was reading fromIsaiah 61:1, 2.—Lu 4:17-19.
Furthermore, the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah (IQIsa, believed to have been copied toward the end of the second century B.C.E.) contains evidence that the copyist who penned it knew nothing of any supposed division in the prophecy at the close ofchapter 39. He began the 40th chapter on the last line of the column of writing that containschapter 39.
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"Don't you want our kids to have what we had?"
by schnell inmy wife just asked me this.
my answer, in no uncertain terms, is no.
we both grew up in the dub religion.
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schnell
My wife just asked me this. My answer, in no uncertain terms, is no.
We both grew up in the dub religion. We both grew up pretty happy. She in particular is close with her JW family. They call and talk every single day, where I go days without ever talking with my family. I am sure that that's really it.
She has so far refused to watch anything or read anything about the organization's faults. So far. She does see the logic in doing so, but she's resistant.
I have assured her that this is public information. Public information is not my fault, or her fault. She isn't doing anything wrong by educating herself.
I have also told her that we do not even live by JW standards. We don't get our morals from the Watchtower. Both of us cuss, watch movies and shows that Tony Morris wouldn't appreciate (or maybe he would privately, who knows), and we both take what we learn at the meetings and filter them to our own personal standards. Because hey, we like to think for ourselves, yeah?
We do want to have kids. And we *do* know a pedophile in our congregation, a young man with extreme ADHD who escaped a conviction several years ago and thus is not a registered sex offender. He is known to the elders. I told her that I knew another pedo in another congregation. And I know exactly the video to show her a glimpse of the MAGNITUDE of this problem with a compilation of material...
Hell no, I don't want my kids there. But will she watch this? Not yet. Not yet she won't.
I just, I don't get it.
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I got a voicemail from an elder about meeting with me.
by schnell inyesterday, i missed a call and got a long voicemail from an elder who would like to meet with my wife and i some time this weekend, with another elder who dealt with my brother.
i haven't responded.
it's meeting night tonight, and my wife has already talked about staying home to do yoga with me instead.. yeah.
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schnell
It's becoming increasingly difficult to find a common frame, or foundation, of belief upon which to debate.
Heh, I know what you're saying. Nice post, too. Stephen Hawking wrote about this, how we can look back at ridiculous ideas from centuries past (he specifically mentioned a flat earth on a stack of turtles) and think so highly of ourselves, but how will our descendants see the things we believe?
Considering the historical criticism that students have been learning in seminary for a couple hundred years, it's a shock to come out of the Theocratic Ministry School and see what scholars actually know, things we've been taught to dismiss. I am convinced that most elders would not pass the entry exam to seminary, and would not pass the program without abandoning their faith.
And that's just the thing. As you pursue the truth, the truth sets you free. Matt Dillahunty went to seminary as a Christian fundamentalist and now hosts the Atheist Experience in Austin, TX. Bart Ehrman went to seminary as a Christian fundamentalist and is now an agnostic seminary professor, though he insists atheism isn't an inevitable result of Bible criticism. I would say it's either that or some sort of loose, metaphorical reinterpretation. Or just dishonesty.
At this point, I'm atheist but certainly not nihilist. The world is beautiful, and it's a joy to be alive, to write and create and take things in and have an impact on the world around you. I like to think of my personal philosophy as Zen Stoicism, two things from East and West that naturally go together. And I'm certainly influenced by the monomyth of Joseph Campbell. That's just me and my way around nihilism.
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Was it Adam who altered his own DNA so that sicknesses & consequent death would be passed on to his offspring?
by deegee inthe blame for mankind's sicknesses/diseases and consequent death has been placed squarely on the shoulders of adam:.
romans 5:12, 17 - 19:"therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—for if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man.......consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people........for just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners........".
1 corinthians 15: 21, 22:"for since death came through a man........... for as in adam all die.......".
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schnell
To be sure, though no one has directly said this in this thread, we didn't evolve from homo neanderthalis. We evolved from homo erectus. "Neanderthals are more like our cousins with the same grandpa," says Aron-Ra. However, we do have some admixture of Neanderthals and Denisovans.
Knowledge is power.
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Pyramid Schemes
by schnell inseveral years ago, i was introduced to a "wonderful" company called fortune hi tech marketing by a brother and his wife.
they had been introduced by a former sheriff who claims he had researched the company and found no leins or judgments, and that former sheriff had been brought in by a pastor.
you can read what happened with fhtm on wikipedia if you so desire.. this whole new idea of multilevel marketing had my brain reeling, though, and soon enough, i actually signed up with none other than prepaid legal.
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schnell
Yep, I've read Pink Truth. Great site! It also points out that some of the "top earners" with rings and awards and speeches and stuff aren't making much more than $20k a year after taxes and expenses. In other words, they could just go get a job and be better off.
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If the GB changed a major teaching, would all witnesses just go along with it?
by stuckinarut2 inso if the gb changed its "bible based beliefs" on some teaching, would witnesses all of a sudden change their individual beliefs too?.
witnesses like to claim that "their bible trained hearts and minds" make them believe as they do, but we know that the reality is that all witnesses hold their "deep seated beliefs" according to what they have been told to believe.. so what would cause the average witness to question those that dictate their "personal convictions"??.
thoughts?.
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schnell
I went to the last assembly's morning session with my wife, and an awesome beard that I was quite surprised I could grow. This is after the Watchtower announced a change about beards I guess. I didn't read it, just heard about it.
(I did, however, read in 30 Years A Watchtower Slave about Rutherford and the bearded coordinator of Bethel in Germany. That's why I grew the beard.)
I got looks. People didn't know what to do. One of my great friends had to break the ice and come over to me before anyone else in his circle would do so.
I left at the half. If you love hearing some dork at the podium talk about wrestling with demons, but won't talk to a friend because he has a beard now, you're acting nuts. Although I mostly left because nothing said in the entire program made sense.
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If the GB changed a major teaching, would all witnesses just go along with it?
by stuckinarut2 inso if the gb changed its "bible based beliefs" on some teaching, would witnesses all of a sudden change their individual beliefs too?.
witnesses like to claim that "their bible trained hearts and minds" make them believe as they do, but we know that the reality is that all witnesses hold their "deep seated beliefs" according to what they have been told to believe.. so what would cause the average witness to question those that dictate their "personal convictions"??.
thoughts?.
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schnell
Maybe they'll change their rule on 2 witnesses.
That'll be a loving provision.
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If the GB changed a major teaching, would all witnesses just go along with it?
by stuckinarut2 inso if the gb changed its "bible based beliefs" on some teaching, would witnesses all of a sudden change their individual beliefs too?.
witnesses like to claim that "their bible trained hearts and minds" make them believe as they do, but we know that the reality is that all witnesses hold their "deep seated beliefs" according to what they have been told to believe.. so what would cause the average witness to question those that dictate their "personal convictions"??.
thoughts?.
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schnell
Yes.