Posts by schnell

31

New Religion where to look?

by Alostpuppydog in

has anyone found any religion that makes more sense than the watchtower organization?

obviously catholics make even less sense than them so don't say that.... the reason i ask is because i still believe the bible is the word of god, but just that the jw's have twisted it for their own benefit, as most religions seem to do....

schnell

I would like to say that Jesus gave only one commandment to love, but he also exerted undue influence on his followers by saying things like, "Leave the dead to bury the dead." Jesus was a cult leader, and we're free to take brotherly love and the golden rule, but let's not look at what he said through a pinhole.

6

RANT: Isn't Cognitive Dissonance Amazing?

by Sorry in

this is piggybacking off my previous post (about my 'personal study').

while i haven't been a long time member, i'm sure if you have my posts you'll know that i'm disenchanted with the wt and am just grunting and bearing until i have a stable enough support system to break away.

however, lately i'm just getting extremely angry at nearly everything that's going on.

schnell

Mental gymnastics should be an Olympic event.

I hear you, Sorry. I've felt the same way. To see friends you've known for years say the dumbest things after you've woken up. . . Yeah at first, you cry because you don't want to lose them. Been there. Then you talk to them and you don't care anymore. Talking to a JW becomes an exhausting chore and you'd rather do pretty much anything else. Thus, you really don't mind shunning them before they shun you.

How soon can you realistically move on and be on your own?

31

New Religion where to look?

by Alostpuppydog in

has anyone found any religion that makes more sense than the watchtower organization?

obviously catholics make even less sense than them so don't say that.... the reason i ask is because i still believe the bible is the word of god, but just that the jw's have twisted it for their own benefit, as most religions seem to do....

schnell

@prologos, excellent suggestion, and I attest to it. At some point, I realized that God was pretty loose with Adam in the garden, and religion was the result of descent. God didn't even seem to quite notice at first when Adam sinned, as it says was walking through the garden in the breezy part of the day and calling out to him.

Couple of things. This gives God a limited and physical location in our world at that moment. God is also reactive to what is immediately before him, rather than reading hearts or minds. One might argue that this is an angel standing in God's place, perhaps Michael, but it doesn't say that does it? For the purposes of this story in Genesis, this is God.

This led me to the character of God. And that's where I'll leave you with this example. If you read the Bible from here, and come to the scripture where it says he doesn't change, you'll laugh and put it away.

There is such a thing, also, as a personal creedo. When you are an atheist, humanist, and methodological naturalist, you are free to choose beliefs and myths to live by if you have good reason for doing so. I personally take a few cues from Zen Buddhism (which Alan Watts called "the religion of no religion") as well as Stoicism. I don't have to believe everything under the umbrella of Buddhism, particularly in the more conservative branches where it seems to be just as dogmatic as Christianity. I love the Tao te Ching, but the I Ching as a pocket fortune teller is unnecessary to me. So, I don't consider myself an "-ist" in any of these "-isms" as much as I am a nosy neighbor who likes to borrow things.

3

"Satan Did It!" -- Comparative Religion and Religion

by schnell in

it's been said that as early christians went to preach about christ and his virgin birth, his tests, miracles, death, resurrection, and divine pedigree, the people they were preaching to would essentially say, "oh yeah, we have that too!

it's almost a cliche to point out that mary and jesus resemble isis and horus, that gautama faced his tests as well, that heracles is the son of zeus and a mortal woman named alcmene.

but when this is pointed out, suddenly an intelligent design argument appears to explain it.

schnell

Heaven, you're right on. I love Bart Ehrman, as well as Finkelstein and Silberman, and Joseph Campbell.

Satanic inspiration of mythology is just another exercise in mental gymnastics Christians use to rationalize their beliefs with the observable world, despite the obvious.

193

Great Tribulation and Trump

by TakeOffTheCrown in

please, let's discuss this subject without attacking one another.. it appears that trump has won a victory that no one expected.

is it possible that trump may play a part in the great tribulation?.

there are some who believe trump is one of the most unqualified of men to ever be elected president of the united states.

schnell

They may not be able to back their beliefs with hard evidence,

Which means an argument from ignorance, and the onus is on them to substantiate it rather than on atheists to disprove it.

I'm an atheist, not an agnostic, because no argument for a creator has withstood scrutiny. I don't think they can. A theist may prefer to believe in God, may reach to say that there could be one, may feel that all is necessarily meaningless without one. That need for meaning is not proof of God.

If I am not to make an assertion, so as not to be dogmatic like the Watchtower, then I am supposed to stay mum about reasoning and observation. I don't accept that. If I make an assertion in a public forum like this, it is open for scrutiny and I am open for debate. We're adults here. If you don't like my stance, that's okay, but why piss and moan about dogma or (unbelievably) hypocrisy? Put up an argument.

9

Is there Scriptural Evidence to a Resurrection during the 1,000 year Reign?

by Listener in

this question was addressed on the jw advisor blog (a defending watchtower website), july 24,2016 .

the answer is interesting because it is more in accord with what the bible fortells but it is not in accord with what the watchtower is currently teaching and has been for decades.

it has been suggested on this forum that the site has been sanctioned by the watchtower or written by writers at hq.this is the current view of the watchtower and is under 'bible teachings' on jw org.

schnell

So, overlapping generations that add infinite delay after 1914, and a resurrection 1000 years or more after Armageddon.

I can't wait.

3

"Satan Did It!" -- Comparative Religion and Religion

by schnell in

it's been said that as early christians went to preach about christ and his virgin birth, his tests, miracles, death, resurrection, and divine pedigree, the people they were preaching to would essentially say, "oh yeah, we have that too!

it's almost a cliche to point out that mary and jesus resemble isis and horus, that gautama faced his tests as well, that heracles is the son of zeus and a mortal woman named alcmene.

but when this is pointed out, suddenly an intelligent design argument appears to explain it.

schnell

Comparative Religion and Religion, eh? Surely, I meant Comparative Mythology and Religion.

3

"Satan Did It!" -- Comparative Religion and Religion

by schnell in

it's been said that as early christians went to preach about christ and his virgin birth, his tests, miracles, death, resurrection, and divine pedigree, the people they were preaching to would essentially say, "oh yeah, we have that too!

it's almost a cliche to point out that mary and jesus resemble isis and horus, that gautama faced his tests as well, that heracles is the son of zeus and a mortal woman named alcmene.

but when this is pointed out, suddenly an intelligent design argument appears to explain it.

schnell

It's been said that as early Christians went to preach about Christ and his virgin birth, his tests, miracles, death, resurrection, and divine pedigree, the people they were preaching to would essentially say, "Oh yeah, we have that too!"

It's almost a cliche to point out that Mary and Jesus resemble Isis and Horus, that Gautama faced his tests as well, that Heracles is the son of Zeus and a mortal woman named Alcmene.

But when this is pointed out, suddenly an intelligent design argument appears to explain it.

"Satan Did It!" The devil himself is attributed the ability to inspire people for millenia beforehand to tell stories about a demigod born of a virgin. This also envisions Satan as having the foresight to do so.

The alternative explanation, of course, is that a lot of mythology was developed around a man called Jesus after he died, assuming he lived at all.* In this case, there is no need for Satanic inspiration, no need to give Satan a new superpower of foresight, and really no need for Satan at all.

One of these explanations demands a rewrite of science to account for spirit creatures and what abilities are available to them and reeks of a conspiracy through the ages. The other explains how the myths developed without any such leap.

I know what I'm putting my money on.

But what gets me is this argument from ignorance about an intelligent designer. In this case, the intelligent designer is Satan the Devil weaving myths instead of Yahweh causing things to become. If you say this, you are asserting that the existence of mythology similar to that of Christ is evidence of an intelligent, malevolent designer, just as the existence of very complex life is evidence of an intelligent designer.

In response to intelligent design, complex life is not irreducibly complex. It can be broken down and shown to have evolved. Similarly, the mythology about Christ can be broken down and shown to have evolved by numerous writers and influences over the course of decades and centuries. Indeed, the 4 narrative gospels were written in later decades by unknown authors AFTER Paul had reached out to the Gentiles, and there was some logic to how they attributed each one to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. And within 4 centuries, Jesus was God.

An additional argument to all of this is that all mythology and religion disseminated from a single origin (namely Babylon). This is to support the Satanic inspiration argument. It argues that two similar, complex ideas must have had the same source. It is a long discredited idea that, first of all, disregards how far flung, populous, and fairly advanced humankind was 5000 years ago. It disregards the major differences in myths from around the world. It disregards psychology. It disregards that you and I can have the same or similar idea, even around the same time without having the idea disseminated to us -- the classic example being Leibniz and Newton independently creating Calculus.

* As I wrote in another thread, I personally do believe there was a historical Jesus. However, I don't believe all that has been attributed to him, or in the integrity of the Bible.

193

Great Tribulation and Trump

by TakeOffTheCrown in

please, let's discuss this subject without attacking one another.. it appears that trump has won a victory that no one expected.

is it possible that trump may play a part in the great tribulation?.

there are some who believe trump is one of the most unqualified of men to ever be elected president of the united states.

schnell

Or perhaps we're just making this up as we go along.

193

Great Tribulation and Trump

by TakeOffTheCrown in

please, let's discuss this subject without attacking one another.. it appears that trump has won a victory that no one expected.

is it possible that trump may play a part in the great tribulation?.

there are some who believe trump is one of the most unqualified of men to ever be elected president of the united states.

schnell

I always thought it was odd that the Devil was cast down to earth at so late a year in history, when much earlier he was roving about the earth and watching over the garden of Eden.

Did God take away his passport or something? *shrug*