If they just did the same doctrine but moved it up 20 years -- 587 BCE to 1934 CE and ditch 1914 -- that would have at least spared them the overlapping generations nonsense.
But, eh. Too much egg on the face.
schnell
JoinedPosts by schnell
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Possible new light on 70 years
by Saltheart Foamfollower ini may be reading more into this than is there, but here is what i've spotted from today's watchtower study (oct 2016 study edition) page 14 paragraph 8. concerning daniel it says "thus, some 70 years after his arrival in babylon, he was still known by his hebrew name" referring to an event in the first year of darius ie 539/538 bce.
however, according to the wtbts chronology daniel went to babylon in 617 bce - more like 80 years earlier.
could this (finally) be a step towards ditching 607?.
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So I bought a Harold Camping book.
by schnell inhttps://www.amazon.com/1994-harold-camping/dp/0533103681.
i found this at goodwill along with volume 2 of the mahabharata.
call me eclectic.. i first learned about camping in 2011, when i saw his ridiculous billboard on i-8 in san diego about the world ending that december.
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schnell
Camping died in December of 2013. I am due to make corrections for accuracy's sake, and I apologize for not doing so sooner. My mistake.
Camping predicted Judgment Day for September 6, 1994. I previously wrote September 15.
Camping later predicted the world would end on October 21, 2011. I previously wrote December of 2011.
Camping discusses a day for a year on page 451 of "1994?", and endorses the idea as scriptural. Don't they all.
By the way. Just in case it wasn't at all obvious for anyone, I didn't send any money to Family Ministry or Family Radio. The book was $1.99 at a second hand thrift store. It probably cost too much.
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So I bought a Harold Camping book.
by schnell inhttps://www.amazon.com/1994-harold-camping/dp/0533103681.
i found this at goodwill along with volume 2 of the mahabharata.
call me eclectic.. i first learned about camping in 2011, when i saw his ridiculous billboard on i-8 in san diego about the world ending that december.
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schnell
Oh yes, Russell's days with the Second Adventist movement are well documented and admitted. Jehovah's witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists, in terms of evolution, are Millerites.
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wt on a slide, " 1914's generation is not only overlapping, but also composite.
by prologos indoctrines projected by wt writers can be compared to the slides in the old carousel slide shows, the jw audience was kept in the dark, but the next images' bright filtered new light had their rapt attention.
often these doctrine images came around again but modified, often totally changed, turned upside down.
think superior authorities, resurrection ----, .
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schnell
2114? Why that's just 2 years after
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The Evils of Aluminum
by NeonMadman inaluminum was an issue that became a real “tempest in a teapot” for the watchtower.
it influenced their teaching for almost 50 years and, frankly, created an impression among observers that their members were off-the-wall fanatics.
for all those years, the golden age and other watchtower publications took the position that aluminum cookware and utensils were one of the great health hazards of the 20th century.
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So I bought a Harold Camping book.
by schnell inhttps://www.amazon.com/1994-harold-camping/dp/0533103681.
i found this at goodwill along with volume 2 of the mahabharata.
call me eclectic.. i first learned about camping in 2011, when i saw his ridiculous billboard on i-8 in san diego about the world ending that december.
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schnell
There was at least one suicide due to the failure of Camping's 2011 prediction. Many people gave their life savings to his company, and got what in return?
I agree, Finkelstein. As I woke up, I noticed Jehovah's witnesses make a lot of the same arguments in certain topics as "Christendom". I expected a bit more distinction, and there is that in some regards, but how do I differentiate between one end-of-days crackpot and another when they're both citing the same things? Likewise for creationism.
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So I bought a Harold Camping book.
by schnell inhttps://www.amazon.com/1994-harold-camping/dp/0533103681.
i found this at goodwill along with volume 2 of the mahabharata.
call me eclectic.. i first learned about camping in 2011, when i saw his ridiculous billboard on i-8 in san diego about the world ending that december.
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schnell
https://www.amazon.com/1994-Harold-Camping/dp/0533103681
I found this at Goodwill along with Volume 2 of the Mahabharata. Call me eclectic.
I first learned about Camping in 2011, when I saw his ridiculous billboard on I-8 in San Diego about the world ending that December. I eventually looked him up and learned that he'd made a few such predictions by that time.
The title of this book is hilarious for anyone living today. It might be even funnier for someone born on September 15, 1994. Because that's the day that Camping predicted the end of history.
Camping made these predictions under the following familiar assumptions:
- The Bible is the inspired and inerrant word of God
- Science is subordinate to the Bible
- Let scripture interpret scripture
- Stuff about Daniel and Revelation and Ezekiel and a day for a year and other reinterpretations.
All too familiar, right?
In his conclusion, Camping reiterated his prediction for September 15, 1994 and added that as thorough as he was, he may well have missed something. He probably hadn't, but maybe there was something...
I think I know what it is, Harold. I think a lot of us have known for a while.
Could it be, Harold, that every one of those assumptions is incorrect?
Could it be that the Bible is an anthology written by disparate men across hundreds of years and edited and canonized later?
Could it be that science, then, is NOT subordinate to the Bible at all and that assuming such actually violates the scientific method? Could it be that we benefit more from science than we ever did from the Bible?
Could it be that scripture CANNOT always interpret scripture because that would assume a uniform context which the Bible, an anthology written by disparate men over hundreds of years in varying sociopolitical environments, does not have? Could it be that letting scripture interpret scripture makes you a fool and a false prophet?
Could it be that Daniel and Revelation and Ezekiel are a lot of malarkey? Seriously, look at the predictions Ezekiel makes for Tyre and consider what actually happened to Tyre. Look at the record that people have for trying to read these supposed prophecies into their own times. Failed prediction after failed prediction after failed prediction.
There are more than enough Harold Campings in the world. I don't have to wish them well, as they get more than enough from their followers. But mankind has predicted the second coming of Christ and the end of days in their time for 20 centuries now. I don't anticipate that it'll completely stop, but 20 centuries of this is enough.
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"I'm firm in my beliefs": Hypocrisy and Delusion
by schnell ini have a friend who said he'll have to stop listening to me after i told him about yahweh's origins in canaanite religion, because he's firm in his beliefs.. i have a mother who said she goes to the meetings even if it's wrong, and i should too.
she is also firm in her beliefs.. i have talked to an elder about evolution, and as i made the case for it and against creationism, he said that at some point i have to decide that there is a creator.
he too is firm in his beliefs.. all of these people will also talk about going out in service.
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schnell
Wrongology sounds like it was a fun topic for NPR at some point, but I was not just talking about people with wrong beliefs.
Evangelizing an idea that you cannot substantiate, and confronting others on their own beliefs whether they can substantiate them or not, is wrong or at least a waste of time.
Saying that you are firm in your beliefs upon scrutiny just puts you at the same level as everyone else you hope to preach to.
I could add making them wake up to answer the door on a Saturday morning, too.
Also, I too would like to hear your input on the Hebrew/Canaanite El, David_Jay. My understanding has been that the Hebrews were roaming pastoral Canaanites, so either way I don't see a huge difference in details yet.
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"I'm firm in my beliefs": Hypocrisy and Delusion
by schnell ini have a friend who said he'll have to stop listening to me after i told him about yahweh's origins in canaanite religion, because he's firm in his beliefs.. i have a mother who said she goes to the meetings even if it's wrong, and i should too.
she is also firm in her beliefs.. i have talked to an elder about evolution, and as i made the case for it and against creationism, he said that at some point i have to decide that there is a creator.
he too is firm in his beliefs.. all of these people will also talk about going out in service.
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schnell
I have a friend who said he'll have to stop listening to me after I told him about Yahweh's origins in Canaanite religion, because he's firm in his beliefs.
I have a mother who said she goes to the meetings even if it's wrong, and I should too. She is also firm in her beliefs.
I have talked to an elder about evolution, and as I made the case for it and against creationism, he said that at some point I have to decide that there is a creator. He too is firm in his beliefs.
All of these people will also talk about going out in service. What do they do? They tell other people about their beliefs and look for interest (or circumstantial misfortune). However they slice it, they are confronting other people about their beliefs.
I don't understand this at all. When your beliefs are scrutinized and beaten down and on the ropes, you can't defend them anymore but maintain them anyway because you're "firm in your beliefs". And so are those at home when you knock on their doors. Confronting them is thus hypocritical, and that kind of faith is intellectually dishonest and delusional.
This is why I was so passive on my last days in service. I was the one on the nice lady's front porch, and she was the one telling me about the Trinity. I just listened to her. You know. Like a person. She was happy in her beliefs and I was essentially trespassing if I didn't behave. Had I been paired with an elder, it may have turned rather ugly, and yet that elder would not then ever consider that he's worshipping a Canaanite storm god.
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Do any of the governing body of JWs exercise their conscience?
by Half banana inthe members of the governing body, by being at the reins of a large corporation, must be confronted with situations which force them to think about the validity of their doctrines.. the australian royal commission hearing must have highlighted for the gb, especially jackson, the rational inconsistency of using an iron age dictum of "two witnesses" in a world which has moved beyond such rough justice.
today we have a scientific approach, we examine forensically, we have psychologists who can tell us about individual's minds and behaviour.
today, children's voices are not ignored.. the first and last resort of jws and their leaders is the doctrine of the "inerrancy of the bible".
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schnell
Oh they're nuts, and I promptly told my friend about Losch's court statement to Judge Lewis in San Diego. He didn't know how to rationalize that other than to brush it aside.
I don't understand this friend. He came to my house the other day to confront me again about our beliefs, and said, "I've been where you are before, and ya know trust me, the answer is God and religion and..." Yep, the answer to the problem is the problem. That's how this works.