seawolf

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Posts by seawolf

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  73

  Iraq's Tortured Children

  by ThiChi in

  1. social
  2. current

  iraq's tortured children .

  some witnesses had direct experience of child torture .

  by john sweeney .

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  seawolf

  I'm sure he conducts "Koran Studies" in his torture chambers

  Would that be from his "My Book of Koran Studies" with the yellow cover?
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  73

  Iraq's Tortured Children

  by ThiChi in

  1. social
  2. current

  iraq's tortured children .

  some witnesses had direct experience of child torture .

  by john sweeney .

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  seawolf

  On July 25, 1990, eight days before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, a quiet, largely unreported meeting took place between Saddam Hussein and U.S. Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie at the Presidential Palace in Baghdad, which has since been destroyed by the war. The transcript of this meeting is as follows:

  U.S. Ambassador Glaspie:

  "I have direct instructions from President Bush to improve our relations with Iraq. We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait. (pause) As you know, I have lived here for years and admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. We know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. (pause) We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your other threats against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned. For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship - not confrontation - regarding your intentions: Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait's borders?"

  Saddam Hussein:

  "As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. (pause) When we [the Iraqis] meet [with the Kuwaitis] and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death."

  U.S. Ambassador Glaspie:

  "What solutions would be acceptable?"

  Saddam Hussein:

  "If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab - our strategic goal in our war with Iran - we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (which, in Saddam's view, includes Kuwait) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States' opinion on this?"

  (Pause, then Ambassador Glaspie speaks carefully)

  U.S. Ambassador Glaspie:

  "We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America."

  (Saddam smiles.)

  THE GREEN LIGHT AND THE LIMOSINE

  At a Washington press conference called the next day, State Department spokesperson Margaret Tutweiler was asked by journalists:

  "Has the United States sent any type of diplomatic message to the Iraqis about putting 30,000 troops on the border with Kuwait? Has there been any type of protest communicated from the United States government?"

  to which she responded:

  "I'm entirely unaware of any such protest."

  On July 31st, two days before the Iraqi invasion, John Kelly, Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern affairs, testified to Congress that the

  "United States has no commitment to defend Kuwait and the U.S. has no intention of defending Kuwait if it is attacked by Iraq."

  Eight days later, on August 2, 1990, Saddam Hussein's massed troops invaded and occupied Kuwait (ironically, this was done in a method historically similar to the American anexation of Texas). One month later in Baghdad, British journalists obtained the tape and transcript of the Hussein-Glaspie meeting on July 25, 1990. In order to verify this astounding information, they attempted to confront Ms. Glaspie as she was leaving the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad.

  Journalist 1:

  "Are the transcripts (holding them up) correct, Madam Ambassador?"

  (Ambassador Glaspie does not respond)

  Journalist 2:

  "You knew Saddam was going to invade (Kuwait), but you didn't warn him not to. You didn't tell him America would defend Kuwait. You told him the oppose - that America was not associated with Kuwait."

  Journalist 1:

  "You encouraged this aggression - his invasion. What were you thinking?"

  U.S. Ambassador Glaspie:

  "Obviously, I didn't think, and nobody else did, that the Iraqis were going to take ALL of Kuwait."

  Journalist 1:

  "You thought he was just going to take SOME of it? But how COULD YOU?! Saddam told you that, if negotiations failed, he would give up his Iran (Shatt al Arab Waterway) goal for the "WHOLE of Iraq, in the shape we wish it to be." You KNOW that includes Kuwait, which the Iraqis have always viewed as an historic part of their country!"

  (Ambassador Glaspie says nothing, pushing past the two journalists to leave)

  "America green-lighted the invasion. At a minimum, you admit signalling Saddam that some aggression was okay - that the U.S. would not oppose a grab of the al-Rumalya oil field, the disputed border strip and the Gulf Islands (including Bubiyan) - territories claimed by Iraq?"

  (Again, Ambassador Glaspie says nothing as a limousine door closes behind her and the car drives off.)
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  88

  Bush just wants the oil!!!

  by dubla in

  1. social
  2. current

  i posted this on another thread, but i thought a new thread might help get the ball rolling: .

  i have a simple question for all those that believe this war is solely about oil: .

  what exactly do you believe bush is going to do with the oil fields after the war?.

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  seawolf

  The PNAC goes along with my last post on Israel. The PNAC has been discussed for the past year+ on other boards.

  Anyway, there was a Nightline special on the PNAC a couple of weeks ago:

  And in a report just before the 2000 election that would bring Bush to power, the group predicted that the shift would come about slowly, unless there were "some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor."

  That event came on Sept. 11, 2001. By that time, Cheney was vice president, Rumsfeld was secretary of defense, and Wolfowitz his deputy at the Pentagon.

  They got their "Pearl Harbor."

  Here's details on the show http://abcnews.go.com/sections/nightline/DailyNews/pnac_030310.html

  Transcript is here http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ThePlan.htm
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  36

  Sucks living in the Pacific Time Zone

  by ApagaLaLuz in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's 10:00 pm california time.

  1am east coast.

  6:00 am in london.

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  seawolf

  I was in there?

  oh well that was a once in a lifetime experience kinda like moses talking to god.
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  2

  Barksdale Airforce Base in Louisiana,,"CHARLIE"

  by LyinEyes in

  1. social
  2. current

  i am watching the local news and we have the airforce base called barksdale.

  tonite they said there are four or five levels of heightened security and that the one they are now is called charlie.

  there is only one code word higher in security and that is delta.

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  seawolf

  I was just out driving about 30 minutes ago. I've never seen any increased security here or anywhere else. Of course, I don't go to the airport. I know there's a lot there from what I see on the local news.
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  88

  Bush just wants the oil!!!

  by dubla in

  1. social
  2. current

  i posted this on another thread, but i thought a new thread might help get the ball rolling: .

  i have a simple question for all those that believe this war is solely about oil: .

  what exactly do you believe bush is going to do with the oil fields after the war?.

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  seawolf

  This war has a lot to do with helping Israel. It's been talked about here and there on tv lately.

  Ambassador Joseph C, Wilson:

  MOYERS: Tell me what you think about the arguments of one of those men, Richard Perle, who is perhaps the most influential advocate in the President's and the administration's ear arguing to get rid of Saddam Hussein. What do you think about his argument?

  WILSON: Well, he's certainly the architect of a study that was produced in the mid-'90s for the Likud Israeli government called "a clean break, a new strategy for the realm." And it makes the argument that the best way to secure Israeli security is through the changing of some of these regimes beginning with Iraq and also including Syria. And that's been since expanded to include Iran.

  http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_wilson.html

  There's a Time magazine article on it here, too.

  "How Israel Is Wrapped Up in Iraq"
  Joe Klein contends that a stronger Israel is very much embedded in the rationale for war with Iraq
  http://www.time.com/time/columnist/printout/0,8816,419688,00.html

  From BBC's Panorama:

  BRADSHAW: Back in 1996 a group of American neoconservatives helped write a
  report called: “A Clean Break”. It was published by a think tank based in Israel.
  They hoped their ideas might be taken up by incoming Prime Minister Binyamin
  Netanyahu They included removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq which
  they called an important Israeli strategic objective. The paper never became official
  policy but was widely read.

  GREEN: I think it’s very interesting. I think there has always been a group in
  Israel that has wanted to knock out Iraq – Iraq being the main remaining strategic
  threat to Israel. Now if that has the effect of creating chaos in the Middle East and
  hostility towards America, why should they worry? It’s we who should worry. If
  we’re going to march to war to an Israeli drum, then that would be a very foolish
  thing to do.

  BRADSHAW: And eight strong group behind the paper was chaired by Richard
  Perle, now the Pentagon’s top civilian advisor. Two other members of the group
  [Douglas Feith – David Wurmser] now have official posts in President Bush’s
  administration.

  http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/programmes/panorama/transcripts/08_12_02.txt

  It's interesting that the top guy screaming into Bush's ear is Richard Perle, who was fired as an aide to Sen. H. Jackson in the 70s for allegedly passing classified documents to the Israeli embassy. He should be in prison next to Pollard.

  Anyway, I'm really surprised this hasn't come up here as of yet (that I can see). It's been talked about a lot on other boards. Oil has some to do with it as do a lot of other things but it appears more and more that Israel is a strong driving force in all of this.
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  7

  OK, What to do with Iraq? Later?

  by LB in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so we are a few weeks down the road.

  american and british troops are pissing in the palace.

  it's all but over and plans for a new government are being put in place.. what would you do?

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  seawolf

  She wouldn't want to be queen unless she gets another oil tanker named after her.
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  7

  OK, What to do with Iraq? Later?

  by LB in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so we are a few weeks down the road.

  american and british troops are pissing in the palace.

  it's all but over and plans for a new government are being put in place.. what would you do?

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  seawolf

  http://homepage.eircom.net/~gulufuture/images/Bush-Blair-Roadmap.gif

  Seriously, I think we should help the people as much as we can to try and get back to some sort of reguluar routine in life. Rebuild the damage, get what medicine they require, food, clean up depleted uranium and leftover munitions, etc..
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  21

  Ecstasy use makes people depressed for life?

  by MegaDude in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i know some of you have played around with ecstasy.

  there are some good comments by people at the end of the article as to what they think of this research.

  one of the men i work with used a lot of ecstasy in college and he is not depressed whatsoever.

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  seawolf

  I am a firm believer that any drug you take and use hardcore is going to mess with your brain, life, emotional well-being in the long run...ANY DRUG...but that's just my opinion.

  I'm in 100% agreement on that one.
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  30

  Al-Amiriya...The Ultimate Mistake From The Last Gulf War

  by ISP in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  friday, october 4, 2002. shrine to victims of tragic error.

  wreaths, flags, prayers mark place where hundreds of civilians died.

  seattle post-intelligencer foreign desk editor.

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  seawolf

  People are being spoon fed propagenda and are lapping it up.

  AMEN!

  I could go on all day! One of the biggest ones is that Saddam gassed his own people(the Kurds in Halabja).

  http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/31/opinion/31PELL.html

  The interesting part:

  This much about the gassing at Halabja we undoubtedly know: it came about in the course of a battle between Iraqis and Iranians. Iraq used chemical weapons to try to kill Iranians who had seized the town, which is in northern Iraq not far from the Iranian border. The Kurdish civilians who died had the misfortune to be caught up in that exchange. But they were not Iraq's main target.
  
  And the story gets murkier: immediately after the battle the United States Defense Intelligence Agency investigated and produced a classified report, which it circulated within the intelligence community on a need-to-know basis. That study asserted that it was Iranian gas that killed the Kurds, not Iraqi gas.
  
  The agency did find that each side used gas against the other in the battle around Halabja. The condition of the dead Kurds' bodies, however, indicated they had been killed with a blood agent - that is, a cyanide-based gas - which Iran was known to use. The Iraqis, who are thought to have used mustard gas in the battle, are not known to have possessed blood agents at the time.

  Also, Saddam trying to assassinate former President Bush #1 in 1993. This New Yorker article from 1993 investigates it and finds the evidence questionable at best.

  http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?archive/020930fr_archive02

  Regarding the attempted assasination of Bush:

  But my own investigations have uncovered circumstantial evidence, at least as compelling as the Administration's, that suggests that the American government's case against Iraq—as it has been outlined in public, anyway—is seriously flawed.